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Posted: 7/21/2015 6:18:56 PM EST
Apparently the 40mm M992 IR flares are considered to be a explosive round. This is news to me. They got my name from the dealer I purchased them from, apparently they didn't know either. Any one have any info on this. I've been googling it for a couple of hours now and can't find anything.
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Posted: 7/21/2015 6:25:25 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2015 6:25:49 PM EST by m4hk33]
1.2 G
Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 6:32:44 PM EST
Well, I have seen them used to stop a car before...maybe not a DD, but a Dangerous Device.
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SD, USA
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Posted: 7/21/2015 6:38:04 PM EST
"40mm infrared parachute" on google got me tons of results.
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Posted: 7/21/2015 6:48:22 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By m4hk33:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. in.... |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 7:11:07 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By joshiedoom:
in.... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joshiedoom:
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. in.... Or just spray paint a red Bull can red and white. it's not like 90 percent of eod guys know what the hell they are looking at. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 7:21:41 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By m4hk33:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. What's that mean? |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 7:23:47 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
What's that mean? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. What's that mean? Dot explosive hazzard class. HE would be D or E |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 7:25:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2015 7:25:54 PM EST by TheGreatDanton]
Delete my phone number
Throw it away in your garbage at 10:32PM CST tonight. Thanks |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 7:32:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/21/2015 7:36:32 PM EST by simply_green]
Pop that sucker off and video it. Give them the expended cartridge.
ETA, get a receipt, because I think they are wrong. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 7:47:00 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By simply_green:
Pop that sucker off and video it. Give them the expended cartridge. ETA, get a receipt, because I think they are wrong. Think...lol. They are clueless. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 7:47:04 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By simply_green:
Pop that sucker off and video it. Give them the expended cartridge. ETA, get a receipt, because I think they are wrong. Better yet, when you see them drive up: "Hey y'all, the place you're looking for is over here!" |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 7:47:46 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By KILLERB6:
Better yet, when you see them drive up: "Hey y'all, the place you're looking for is over here!" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By KILLERB6:
Originally Posted By simply_green:
Pop that sucker off and video it. Give them the expended cartridge. ETA, get a receipt, because I think they are wrong. Better yet, when you see them drive up: "Hey y'all, the place you're looking for is over here!" This. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 8:25:20 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By m4hk33:
Dot explosive hazzard class. HE would be D or E Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m4hk33:
Originally Posted By ALASKANFIRE:
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. What's that mean? Dot explosive hazzard class. HE would be D or E Uh, no. The letter represent compatibility. The first 1 is Class. The second number, in this case a 2, is Division. 1.2 is a mass fragmenting device. In this case, the correct designation is 1.2.2 G for M992 |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 8:38:54 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By m4hk33:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. You first... If it were me I wouldn't be poking the bear. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 8:42:35 PM EST
Contact a 2A attorney and surrender the device under protest.
Or fire it off tonight. On video. Your call. |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 7/21/2015 8:47:38 PM EST
Fire it and video that. Never saw a IR parachute flare.
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Posted: 7/21/2015 9:00:35 PM EST
Better call Nolo. He needs another NFA case going concurrently with his other two.
Paging Nolo to the white phone. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 9:13:45 PM EST
and you lost it when...... wow freely giving it up.........turn in man card
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Posted: 7/21/2015 9:27:49 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By beardog30:
You first... If it were me I wouldn't be poking the bear. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. You first... If it were me I wouldn't be poking the bear. After working with eod every work day for the past 8 years, they are not getting the round. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 9:48:39 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By williewvr:
Better call Nolo. He needs another NFA case going concurrently with his other two. Paging Nolo to the white phone. this would be a neat option |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 9:53:23 PM EST
should have given them a really vuage adress and told them to call you when close, then with them close and on the phone, "Here, I'll pop a flare so you can find me easier" *poop*.
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Posted: 7/21/2015 10:03:11 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By Madcap72: should have given them a really vuage adress and told them to call you when close, then with them close and on the phone, "Here, I'll pop a flare so you can find me easier" *poop*. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 10:13:09 PM EST
What state?
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Posted: 7/21/2015 10:13:44 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By TheGreatDanton:
Delete my phone number Throw it away in your garbage at 10:32PM CST tonight. Thanks 
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Posted: 7/21/2015 10:29:24 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By Paul: What state? Texas |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 10:32:30 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By m4hk33:
After working with eod every work day for the past 8 years, they are not getting the round. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m4hk33:
Originally Posted By beardog30:
Originally Posted By m4hk33:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. You first... If it were me I wouldn't be poking the bear. After working with eod every work day for the past 8 years, they are not getting the round. Like I said you first... |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 11:25:33 PM EST
googled and found a patent for an IR flare round, nitrocellulose, nitro glycerin, lots of other nasty stuff as well. If yours is made the same way, I could see how it could be considered an explosive round, and a DD if the weight of the flare was heavy enough to be over whatever is the cut off.
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VA, USA
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Posted: 7/21/2015 11:49:53 PM EST
Do they pay you compensation for the flare?
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Posted: 7/21/2015 11:57:16 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By Madcap72:
googled and found a patent for an IR flare round, nitrocellulose, nitro glycerin, lots of other nasty stuff as well. If yours is made the same way, I could see how it could be considered an explosive round, and a DD if the weight of the flare was heavy enough to be over whatever is the cut off. You know most common propellants used today are double based propellants with nitrocellulose and nitro glycerin. It's not HE. It doesn't matter what they think dot rules it's illum/1.3G it's 1.3G |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 12:09:07 AM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By freeride1:
Do they pay you compensation for the flare? Hell no. If they are taking it they're stance is he is illegally in possession of it and should have never been able to buy it. He would have to talk to whoever he bought it from. |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 12:41:38 AM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By m4hk33: You know most common propellants used today are double based propellants with nitrocellulose and nitro glycerin. It's not HE. It doesn't matter what they think dot rules it's illum/1.3G it's 1.3G Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m4hk33: Originally Posted By Madcap72: googled and found a patent for an IR flare round, nitrocellulose, nitro glycerin, lots of other nasty stuff as well. If yours is made the same way, I could see how it could be considered an explosive round, and a DD if the weight of the flare was heavy enough to be over whatever is the cut off. You know most common propellants used today are double based propellants with nitrocellulose and nitro glycerin. It's not HE. It doesn't matter what they think dot rules it's illum/1.3G it's 1.3G I also know that if I load a projectile with double based propellants over a certain amount that it's bad juju. Notice in my statement, I was strictly speaking of the composition of the flare itself. Just because it's not HE doesn't mean a thing. Also, saying "it doesn't matter what the ATF" thinks, and stating that the DOT determines what the ATF can enforce is RIDICULOUS. |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 1:24:35 AM EST
The dealer just sent me a copy of the letter he received. Seems to me by ATF "logic" they could consider all 40mm ammo "low explosive"
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Posted: 7/22/2015 4:14:49 AM EST
Seems to me consumer fireworks mortars would also be subject to confiscation under that determination.
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Posted: 7/22/2015 4:19:53 AM EST
How expensive are they?
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Posted: 7/22/2015 5:08:45 AM EST
OP, watch this ASAP
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Posted: 7/22/2015 5:15:45 AM EST
In.
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Posted: 7/22/2015 6:56:26 AM EST
Paint it blue and get a stencil to mark it "Inert."
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Posted: 7/22/2015 6:59:11 AM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By m4hk33:
You know most common propellants used today are double based propellants with nitrocellulose and nitro glycerin. It's not HE. It doesn't matter what they think dot rules it's illum/1.3G it's 1.3G Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By m4hk33:
Originally Posted By Madcap72:
googled and found a patent for an IR flare round, nitrocellulose, nitro glycerin, lots of other nasty stuff as well. If yours is made the same way, I could see how it could be considered an explosive round, and a DD if the weight of the flare was heavy enough to be over whatever is the cut off. You know most common propellants used today are double based propellants with nitrocellulose and nitro glycerin. It's not HE. It doesn't matter what they think dot rules it's illum/1.3G it's 1.3G Pls stop posting inaccurate information. It has a bearing on the discussion of this topic. Thanks. |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 8:19:42 AM EST
Quote History Thank you, I just contacted them. |
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USA
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Posted: 7/22/2015 8:20:09 AM EST
The irony to this is that once the ATF agent orders you to forfeit your property, he'll put it in the back seat or trunk of his car and drive off, violating the same transportation & storage laws and regulations that were the reason for taking it in the first place. But that's OK, because 18 USC 845(a)(3) and 27 CFR 555.141(a)(3) says that they are better then us and don't have to abide by the same rules. As usual, some pigs are more equal then others.
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USA
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Posted: 7/22/2015 8:25:31 AM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By M249_junky:
The dealer just sent me a copy of the letter he received. Seems to me by ATF "logic" they could consider all 40mm ammo "low explosive" <a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/user/txmod1911/media/40mmM992letter1-1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/40mmM992letter1-1.jpg</a> <a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/user/txmod1911/media/40mmM992letter2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/40mmM992letter2.jpg</a> Yep, it sure does sound like they are trying to regulate all 40mm ammo out of existence. I'm sure that they will go after the regular colored parachute flares next, and then the blue plastic M781 chalk rounds after that. Going after ammo seems to be ATF's new tactic, 7N6, M855....can't ban the guns? Ban the ammo. |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 10:06:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/22/2015 3:36:40 PM EST by KILLERB6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M249_junky:
The dealer just sent me a copy of the letter he received. Seems to me by ATF "logic" they could consider all 40mm ammo "low explosive" <a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/user/txmod1911/media/40mmM992letter1-1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/40mmM992letter1-1.jpg</a> <a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/user/txmod1911/media/40mmM992letter2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/40mmM992letter2.jpg</a> If people would just stop asking the ATF things... 
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Posted: 7/22/2015 10:20:32 AM EST
tag
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PA, USA
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Posted: 7/22/2015 10:45:45 AM EST
Shall not be infringed. Just laugh in his face.
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Posted: 7/22/2015 10:51:39 AM EST
Cold dead fingers.......
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Posted: 7/22/2015 1:41:54 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By M249_junky:
The dealer just sent me a copy of the letter he received. Seems to me by ATF "logic" they could consider all 40mm ammo "low explosive" <a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/user/txmod1911/media/40mmM992letter1-1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/40mmM992letter1-1.jpg</a> <a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/user/txmod1911/media/40mmM992letter2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/40mmM992letter2.jpg</a> or maybe even European military surplus 26.5mm (1") flares  Somebody write a letter to the ATF and ask 
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Posted: 7/22/2015 2:20:21 PM EST
I know I'm not saying anything new here, but I have a white hot hate for the ATF.
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Posted: 7/22/2015 3:23:02 PM EST
What distinguishes this flare round (aside from the fact that it is IR) from other flare rounds that would be fired from a flare gun?
 Don't most flare guns have >.50 cal bore, and aren't they not considered DDs?
I truly don't know, so this may be an obvious question. 
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Posted: 7/22/2015 5:39:02 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By Captain_Morgan:
What distinguishes this flare round (aside from the fact that it is IR) from other flare rounds that would be fired from a flare gun? Don't most flare guns have >.50 cal bore, and aren't they not considered DDs?
I truly don't know, so this may be an obvious question. DOT Hazard Class. |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 7:20:27 PM EST
Quote History Originally Posted By jcriley:
The irony to this is that once the ATF agent orders you to forfeit your property, he'll put it in the back seat or trunk of his car and drive off, violating the same transportation & storage laws and regulations that were the reason for taking it in the first place. But that's OK, because 18 USC 845(a)(3) and 27 CFR 555.141(a)(3) says that they are better then us and don't have to abide by the same rules. As usual, some pigs are more equal then others. Maybe you missed the mention of the bomb squad. When they came and took out black powder they called bomb disposal. Poor bastards were embarrassed to carry that cardboard box out but when the atf man calls you answer. |
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