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Posted: 7/21/2015 7:18:56 PM EDT
Apparently the 40mm M992 IR flares are considered to be a explosive round. This is news to me. They got my name from the dealer I purchased them from, apparently they didn't know either. Any one have any info on this. I've been googling it for a couple of hours now and can't find anything.
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Posted: 7/21/2015 7:25:25 PM EDT
[#1]
1.2 G
Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 7:32:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Well, I have seen them used to stop a car before...maybe not a DD, but a Dangerous Device.
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Posted: 7/21/2015 7:38:04 PM EDT
[#3]
"40mm infrared parachute" on google got me tons of results.
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Posted: 7/21/2015 7:48:22 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. in.... |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 8:11:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
in.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. in.... Or just spray paint a red Bull can red and white. it's not like 90 percent of eod guys know what the hell they are looking at. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 8:21:41 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. What's that mean? |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 8:23:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's that mean? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. What's that mean? Dot explosive hazzard class. HE would be D or E |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 8:25:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Delete my phone number
Throw it away in your garbage at 10:32PM CST tonight. Thanks |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 8:32:38 PM EDT
[#9]
Pop that sucker off and video it. Give them the expended cartridge.
ETA, get a receipt, because I think they are wrong. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 8:47:00 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pop that sucker off and video it. Give them the expended cartridge. ETA, get a receipt, because I think they are wrong. Think...lol. They are clueless. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 8:47:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pop that sucker off and video it. Give them the expended cartridge. ETA, get a receipt, because I think they are wrong. Better yet, when you see them drive up: "Hey y'all, the place you're looking for is over here!" |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 8:47:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Better yet, when you see them drive up: "Hey y'all, the place you're looking for is over here!" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Pop that sucker off and video it. Give them the expended cartridge. ETA, get a receipt, because I think they are wrong. Better yet, when you see them drive up: "Hey y'all, the place you're looking for is over here!" This. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 9:25:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dot explosive hazzard class. HE would be D or E Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. What's that mean? Dot explosive hazzard class. HE would be D or E Uh, no. The letter represent compatibility. The first 1 is Class. The second number, in this case a 2, is Division. 1.2 is a mass fragmenting device. In this case, the correct designation is 1.2.2 G for M992 |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 9:38:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. You first... If it were me I wouldn't be poking the bear. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 9:42:35 PM EDT
[#15]
Contact a 2A attorney and surrender the device under protest.
Or fire it off tonight. On video. Your call. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 9:47:38 PM EDT
[#16]
Fire it and video that. Never saw a IR parachute flare.
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Posted: 7/21/2015 10:00:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Better call Nolo. He needs another NFA case going concurrently with his other two.
Paging Nolo to the white phone. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 10:13:45 PM EDT
[#18]
and you lost it when...... wow freely giving it up.........turn in man card
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Posted: 7/21/2015 10:27:49 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You first... If it were me I wouldn't be poking the bear. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. You first... If it were me I wouldn't be poking the bear. After working with eod every work day for the past 8 years, they are not getting the round. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 10:48:39 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Better call Nolo. He needs another NFA case going concurrently with his other two. Paging Nolo to the white phone. this would be a neat option |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 10:53:23 PM EDT
[#21]
should have given them a really vuage adress and told them to call you when close, then with them close and on the phone, "Here, I'll pop a flare so you can find me easier" *poop*.
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Posted: 7/21/2015 11:03:11 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: should have given them a really vuage adress and told them to call you when close, then with them close and on the phone, "Here, I'll pop a flare so you can find me easier" *poop*. |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 11:13:09 PM EDT
[#23]
What state?
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Posted: 7/21/2015 11:13:44 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Delete my phone number Throw it away in your garbage at 10:32PM CST tonight. Thanks 
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Posted: 7/21/2015 11:29:24 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What state? Texas |
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Posted: 7/21/2015 11:32:30 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
After working with eod every work day for the past 8 years, they are not getting the round. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
1.2 G Tell them to pound sand. You fired it last night. You first... If it were me I wouldn't be poking the bear. After working with eod every work day for the past 8 years, they are not getting the round. Like I said you first... |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 12:25:33 AM EDT
[#27]
googled and found a patent for an IR flare round, nitrocellulose, nitro glycerin, lots of other nasty stuff as well. If yours is made the same way, I could see how it could be considered an explosive round, and a DD if the weight of the flare was heavy enough to be over whatever is the cut off.
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Posted: 7/22/2015 12:49:53 AM EDT
[#28]
Do they pay you compensation for the flare?
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Posted: 7/22/2015 12:57:16 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
googled and found a patent for an IR flare round, nitrocellulose, nitro glycerin, lots of other nasty stuff as well. If yours is made the same way, I could see how it could be considered an explosive round, and a DD if the weight of the flare was heavy enough to be over whatever is the cut off. You know most common propellants used today are double based propellants with nitrocellulose and nitro glycerin. It's not HE. It doesn't matter what they think dot rules it's illum/1.3G it's 1.3G |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 1:09:07 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do they pay you compensation for the flare? Hell no. If they are taking it they're stance is he is illegally in possession of it and should have never been able to buy it. He would have to talk to whoever he bought it from. |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 1:41:38 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You know most common propellants used today are double based propellants with nitrocellulose and nitro glycerin. It's not HE. It doesn't matter what they think dot rules it's illum/1.3G it's 1.3G Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: googled and found a patent for an IR flare round, nitrocellulose, nitro glycerin, lots of other nasty stuff as well. If yours is made the same way, I could see how it could be considered an explosive round, and a DD if the weight of the flare was heavy enough to be over whatever is the cut off. You know most common propellants used today are double based propellants with nitrocellulose and nitro glycerin. It's not HE. It doesn't matter what they think dot rules it's illum/1.3G it's 1.3G I also know that if I load a projectile with double based propellants over a certain amount that it's bad juju. Notice in my statement, I was strictly speaking of the composition of the flare itself. Just because it's not HE doesn't mean a thing. Also, saying "it doesn't matter what the ATF" thinks, and stating that the DOT determines what the ATF can enforce is RIDICULOUS. |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 2:24:35 AM EDT
[#32]
The dealer just sent me a copy of the letter he received. Seems to me by ATF "logic" they could consider all 40mm ammo "low explosive"
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Posted: 7/22/2015 5:14:49 AM EDT
[#33]
Seems to me consumer fireworks mortars would also be subject to confiscation under that determination.
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Posted: 7/22/2015 5:19:53 AM EDT
[#34]
How expensive are they?
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Posted: 7/22/2015 6:08:45 AM EDT
[#35]
OP, watch this ASAP
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Posted: 7/22/2015 6:15:45 AM EDT
[#36]
In.
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Posted: 7/22/2015 7:56:26 AM EDT
[#37]
Paint it blue and get a stencil to mark it "Inert."
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Posted: 7/22/2015 7:59:11 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know most common propellants used today are double based propellants with nitrocellulose and nitro glycerin. It's not HE. It doesn't matter what they think dot rules it's illum/1.3G it's 1.3G Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
googled and found a patent for an IR flare round, nitrocellulose, nitro glycerin, lots of other nasty stuff as well. If yours is made the same way, I could see how it could be considered an explosive round, and a DD if the weight of the flare was heavy enough to be over whatever is the cut off. You know most common propellants used today are double based propellants with nitrocellulose and nitro glycerin. It's not HE. It doesn't matter what they think dot rules it's illum/1.3G it's 1.3G Pls stop posting inaccurate information. It has a bearing on the discussion of this topic. Thanks. |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 9:19:42 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryThank you, I just contacted them. |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 9:20:09 AM EDT
[#40]
The irony to this is that once the ATF agent orders you to forfeit your property, he'll put it in the back seat or trunk of his car and drive off, violating the same transportation & storage laws and regulations that were the reason for taking it in the first place. But that's OK, because 18 USC 845(a)(3) and 27 CFR 555.141(a)(3) says that they are better then us and don't have to abide by the same rules. As usual, some pigs are more equal then others.
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Posted: 7/22/2015 9:25:31 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The dealer just sent me a copy of the letter he received. Seems to me by ATF "logic" they could consider all 40mm ammo "low explosive" <a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/user/txmod1911/media/40mmM992letter1-1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/40mmM992letter1-1.jpg</a> <a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/user/txmod1911/media/40mmM992letter2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/40mmM992letter2.jpg</a> Yep, it sure does sound like they are trying to regulate all 40mm ammo out of existence. I'm sure that they will go after the regular colored parachute flares next, and then the blue plastic M781 chalk rounds after that. Going after ammo seems to be ATF's new tactic, 7N6, M855....can't ban the guns? Ban the ammo. |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 11:06:18 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The dealer just sent me a copy of the letter he received. Seems to me by ATF "logic" they could consider all 40mm ammo "low explosive" <a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/user/txmod1911/media/40mmM992letter1-1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/40mmM992letter1-1.jpg</a> <a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/user/txmod1911/media/40mmM992letter2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/40mmM992letter2.jpg</a> If people would just stop asking the ATF things... 
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Posted: 7/22/2015 11:20:32 AM EDT
[#43]
tag
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Posted: 7/22/2015 11:45:45 AM EDT
[#44]
Shall not be infringed. Just laugh in his face.
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Posted: 7/22/2015 11:51:39 AM EDT
[#45]
Cold dead fingers.......
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Posted: 7/22/2015 2:41:54 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The dealer just sent me a copy of the letter he received. Seems to me by ATF "logic" they could consider all 40mm ammo "low explosive" <a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/user/txmod1911/media/40mmM992letter1-1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/40mmM992letter1-1.jpg</a> <a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/user/txmod1911/media/40mmM992letter2.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac74/txmod1911/40mmM992letter2.jpg</a> or maybe even European military surplus 26.5mm (1") flares  Somebody write a letter to the ATF and ask 
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Posted: 7/22/2015 3:20:21 PM EDT
[#47]
I know I'm not saying anything new here, but I have a white hot hate for the ATF.
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Posted: 7/22/2015 4:23:02 PM EDT
[#48]
What distinguishes this flare round (aside from the fact that it is IR) from other flare rounds that would be fired from a flare gun?
 Don't most flare guns have >.50 cal bore, and aren't they not considered DDs?
I truly don't know, so this may be an obvious question. 
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Posted: 7/22/2015 6:39:02 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What distinguishes this flare round (aside from the fact that it is IR) from other flare rounds that would be fired from a flare gun? Don't most flare guns have >.50 cal bore, and aren't they not considered DDs?
I truly don't know, so this may be an obvious question. DOT Hazard Class. |
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Posted: 7/22/2015 8:20:27 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The irony to this is that once the ATF agent orders you to forfeit your property, he'll put it in the back seat or trunk of his car and drive off, violating the same transportation & storage laws and regulations that were the reason for taking it in the first place. But that's OK, because 18 USC 845(a)(3) and 27 CFR 555.141(a)(3) says that they are better then us and don't have to abide by the same rules. As usual, some pigs are more equal then others. Maybe you missed the mention of the bomb squad. When they came and took out black powder they called bomb disposal. Poor bastards were embarrassed to carry that cardboard box out but when the atf man calls you answer. |
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