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Posted: 8/22/2017 12:14:19 PM EST
Sarco has these Virgin (never assembled) Browning A5 receivers for $39.95.

Browning A5 receivers - old virgin receivers

So If I have an A5 clunker laying around. I could theoretically remove those parts and upon the virgin receiver, assemble into a 26" "Firearm" out of it (minus stock) ?

Seems like Browning recoil operated guns are some of the few that work cut down without much tweaking.

Need some inspiration - What does a 26" cut down browning "wippet" "firearm" gun look like - It can't have a stock - needs a grip or brace config.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 12:32:16 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 1:33:18 PM EST
The way I understand the law, that would be correct. It's never been a firearm of any other type.
But let's not start writing letters.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 2:22:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/22/2017 2:23:46 PM EST by Cucumbermonkey]
Seems like it could be done. I don't know how short the stock has to be before you can say its not designed to be fired from the shoulder.

Eta it must be allowed to have some stock or else mares legs would be SBRs.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 6:42:08 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Cucumbermonkey:
Seems like it could be done. I don't know how short the stock has to be before you can say its not designed to be fired from the shoulder.

Eta it must be allowed to have some stock or else mares legs would be SBRs.
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Yes - No letters - Asking for permission is sometimes tantamount to asking for a reason not to approve. I didn't think of the Mare's Leg stock, I have a Ranch hand too, and never thought the stubby stock just past the grips on that is not considered a stock, not sure at what point it isn't but likely the less is better.
Never have seen a PGO shotty Browning or Remington M11 and wanted inspiration, but the Bonnie and CLyde Whippit looks about right.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 7:11:38 PM EST
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Originally Posted By cherenkov:


Yes - No letters - Asking for permission is sometimes tantamount to asking for a reason not to approve. I didn't think of the Mare's Leg stock, I have a Ranch hand too, and never thought the stubby stock just past the grips on that is not considered a stock, not sure at what point it isn't but likely the less is better.
Never have seen a PGO shotty Browning or Remington M11 and wanted inspiration, but the Bonnie and CLyde Whippit looks about right.
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Nor will you ever see one. There is a action spring and tube that extends into the buttstock, the whippit pictured above is about as short on the stock as possible.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:20:25 PM EST
My only concern would be that they are described simply as "stripped". My paranoia would force me to get something saying that they are virgin. Just me though, YMMV
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 8:58:57 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/22/2017 9:04:13 PM EST by Cucumbermonkey]
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Originally Posted By Coop4570:
Nor will you ever see one. There is a action spring and tube that extends into the buttstock, the whippit pictured above is about as short on the stock as possible.
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Originally Posted By Coop4570:
Originally Posted By cherenkov:


Yes - No letters - Asking for permission is sometimes tantamount to asking for a reason not to approve. I didn't think of the Mare's Leg stock, I have a Ranch hand too, and never thought the stubby stock just past the grips on that is not considered a stock, not sure at what point it isn't but likely the less is better.
Never have seen a PGO shotty Browning or Remington M11 and wanted inspiration, but the Bonnie and CLyde Whippit looks about right.
Nor will you ever see one. There is a action spring and tube that extends into the buttstock, the whippit pictured above is about as short on the stock as possible.
This.

Eta the only thing I can think is to shorten the rat tail that goes on the bolt. This would allow you to possibly shorten the spring tube. Sorry don't know the proper terminology but you get the idea. Reliability may be affected.
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 10:28:47 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/22/2017 10:54:02 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Greyknight: My only concern would be that they are described simply as "stripped". My paranoia would force me to get something saying that they are virgin. Just me though, YMMV
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In French or Flemish. OP, it's not clear to me if those are "virgin", ie, never assembled receivers or "stripped", ie, removed from existing shotguns back in the day. If SARCO has told you they're virgin, good enough, if they've got the documentation.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 5:21:20 AM EST
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 6:25:56 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mike_nds:
You would be better off making one out of an AK style.

Something like this, but without the stock.

http://i15.tinypic.com/4ictrvd.jpg
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So in this case, the end of the receiver would be the overall length decider. The questions I have are...

1. Can you get a virgin receiver or pgo version?
2. How much length does the receiver give you?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 6:28:35 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mike_nds:
You would be better off making one out of an AK style.

Something like this, but without the stock.

http://i15.tinypic.com/4ictrvd.jpg
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That is also a great idea and would love it - and add a brace/blade and you are good to go - Only problem is no virgin Saiga or clone receivers - all seem to be made as a stocked "shotgun" and not pistol grip from factory.

Seems like an easy fix for a Mfr - however many of the Saiga clones are imported and not sure if they can import PGO format.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 7:07:47 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Coop4570:


Nor will you ever see one. There is a action spring and tube that extends into the buttstock, the whippit pictured above is about as short on the stock as possible.
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This. You either build a 18" Whippit or not.

I suspect what you have to leave on the gun to get it to work constitutes a butt stock so no short barrel without a stamp.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 7:19:04 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2017 7:29:08 AM EST by mike_nds]
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 11:02:00 AM EST
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Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
This. You either build a 18" Whippit or not.

I suspect what you have to leave on the gun to get it to work constitutes a butt stock so no short barrel without a stamp.
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Originally Posted By 1srelluc:
Originally Posted By Coop4570:


Nor will you ever see one. There is a action spring and tube that extends into the buttstock, the whippit pictured above is about as short on the stock as possible.
This. You either build a 18" Whippit or not.

I suspect what you have to leave on the gun to get it to work constitutes a butt stock so no short barrel without a stamp.
Hmmm, with that whippet stock I bet you could get away with a 12-14" barrel
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 12:19:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2017 12:20:45 PM EST by ARHank]
I think I have to fo.
Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File

Attachment Attached File

The whippet stock can't be any shorter longer than a mare's leg.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 1:58:19 PM EST
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What's the LOP on a factory "mare's leg" handgun?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 2:09:37 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/23/2017 2:12:51 PM EST by Nick_Adams]
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Originally Posted By ARHank:
* * *
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/155324/9db34a4aadb0c044845220ffbc5ecacb--barbering-short-shotgun-288272.JPG
The whippet stock can't be any shorter longer than a mare's leg.
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Gawd, that last one is so frickin' HOT!

I've got a doner A5 in 20ga I'd like to do something similar with ... Just curious, though, why can't you fashion a "bird's head" pistol grip on that A5?

What, if anything, extends into that portion of the stock?
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 2:47:40 PM EST
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Now that is motivational!
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 2:48:01 PM EST
The recoil spring.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 7:15:19 PM EST
Go long or go home.



24" barreled FN Rhodesian (RA) marked riot shotgun.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:42:48 PM EST
I've been thinking about numbers all day since this got posted. Using decent barrels and wood, a build could run close to or over $1000. Starting with a beater A5 in the $300 range, adding a $200 tax and allowing $100 to have the barrel professionally shortened it would be much cheaper to build on a complete gun. Only benefits to the virgin receiver route(and these aren't trivial by any means) are these might be available for those in states that don't allow NFA,no ATF tax and no NFA WAIT.

Me, I'm just trying to justify a receiver to have a spare on hand in case of catastrophic damage. Then again, receiver damage usually carries injury too, so there's that. Would be interesting to contact Browning with one and see if there's a record of whether it was ever actually built into a shotgun.
Link Posted: 8/23/2017 8:43:46 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Nick_Adams:



What, if anything, extends into that portion of the stock?
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Auto 5 schematic
Link Posted: 8/24/2017 7:15:19 AM EST
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Originally Posted By GunCat:
Auto 5 schematic
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Originally Posted By GunCat:
Originally Posted By Nick_Adams:

What, if anything, extends into that portion of the stock?
Auto 5 schematic
Thanks!
Link Posted: 8/24/2017 11:33:56 AM EST
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Originally Posted By mike_nds:
No, you buy a complete Saiga.

Demill it properly

Buy a new US made AK receiver

Rebuild as "firearm"

Profit

On a 12ga you would have to cut the front of the receiver to fit, but I think it could be done.
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Can't have a pistol grip. Pistol grip = AOW
Link Posted: 8/24/2017 11:58:00 AM EST
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Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
Can't have a pistol grip. Pistol grip = AOW
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Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
Originally Posted By mike_nds: No, you buy a complete Saiga.

Demill it properly

Buy a new US made AK receiver

Rebuild as "firearm"

Profit

On a 12ga you would have to cut the front of the receiver to fit, but I think it could be done.
Can't have a pistol grip. Pistol grip = AOW
If it's an over 26" "firearm" it can everything but a stock. Even a fixed spoon.
Link Posted: 8/24/2017 12:49:45 PM EST
The Mare's leg and the shock wave are not stocks, but pistol grips. Semantics.
Link Posted: 8/24/2017 12:54:17 PM EST
How difficult/expensive would it be to finish one of the out if you had no parts to begin with?

If it wouldn't be too bad I may pick one up.
Link Posted: 8/24/2017 1:28:41 PM EST
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Originally Posted By Sputnik556:
How difficult/expensive would it be to finish one of the out if you had no parts to begin with?

If it wouldn't be too bad I may pick one up.
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Cheapest would be to get a receiver and a complete A5 and just assemble the gun on the virgin receiver. Don't know if you could use savage or Remington clones. If you could you can find those pretty cheap. If you're real lucky you might find one that wasn't setup correctly and has a cracked receiver. Its not that uncommon for people to wreck these guns running them with high power rounds with the recoil system setup for light loads. When I had one of mine worked on the smith said to keep the high power rounds limited even if it was setup properly.
Link Posted: 8/24/2017 3:00:18 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2017 3:02:10 PM EST by Villafuego]
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Originally Posted By Cucumbermonkey:


Cheapest would be to get a receiver and a complete A5 and just assemble the gun on the virgin receiver. Don't know if you could use savage or Remington clones. If you could you can find those pretty cheap. If you're real lucky you might find one that wasn't setup correctly and has a cracked receiver. Its not that uncommon for people to wreck these guns running them with high power rounds with the recoil system setup for light loads. When I had one of mine worked on the smith said to keep the high power rounds limited even if it was setup properly.
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One of those receivers, and a 375.00 gunshow special beat to shit A5 or Remington, and you'd be good to go....can't really put a price on your time/work.....

The fact that it's completely legit to remove all markings but the serial number on a title-1 firearm mean that those importers marks can go away too.....

Do it....and engrave it "Wippet Mk 1, Cal .70"".....
Link Posted: 8/24/2017 4:22:37 PM EST
Couple of thoughts. I built a "hybrid" stocked/whippet. Once I got the stamp back, I sent the barrel to Steve Rose and had it cut to 2 inches past the mag tube cap. Added a Nordic +1 to even it up and add a QD cup. As others have mentioned, the action spring and assembly don't allow for a pistol grip or even normal sized birds head grip. I personally don't know of a semi-auto shotgun that would work for that. Maybe something elongated, but I didnt go that route. Instead I cut the stock down by about 3.5-4 inches and mounted a grind to fit pachmayr pad. I was wanting the idea of a short handy semi auto that could be shouldered vs shot from the hip. Keep in mind, the A5 and its cousins use the brass friction rings to adjust to different loads. Shooting from the hip/wrist can be brutal if there is a mismatch between friction ring orientation and the load.

I had enough parts left over (barrel, newer trigger group, bolt, etc) that I decided to try the OP's idea, and did buy a Sarco receiver to start a second build. I can't speak to whether it is "virgin" for the stated purpose (I'm thinking mock Rhodesian for this one) but it was a good buy. Had to clean up some rust with a wire brush but it is in great shape otherwise. Be prepared though, Sarco is a grumpy pain in the ass to deal with. But as others have noted, getting the rest of the parts from a supplier would nickel and dime the project to a costly death. I'm gonna table the idea until I can find a cheapy gunshow donor.
Link Posted: 8/24/2017 6:26:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/24/2017 6:28:38 PM EST by Cucumbermonkey]
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Originally Posted By Villafuego:
One of those receivers, and a 375.00 gunshow special beat to shit A5 or Remington, and you'd be good to go....can't really put a price on your time/work.....

The fact that it's completely legit to remove all markings but the serial number on a title-1 firearm mean that those importers marks can go away too.....

Do it....and engrave it "Wippet Mk 1, Cal .70"".....
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Originally Posted By Villafuego:
Originally Posted By Cucumbermonkey:


Cheapest would be to get a receiver and a complete A5 and just assemble the gun on the virgin receiver. Don't know if you could use savage or Remington clones. If you could you can find those pretty cheap. If you're real lucky you might find one that wasn't setup correctly and has a cracked receiver. Its not that uncommon for people to wreck these guns running them with high power rounds with the recoil system setup for light loads. When I had one of mine worked on the smith said to keep the high power rounds limited even if it was setup properly.
One of those receivers, and a 375.00 gunshow special beat to shit A5 or Remington, and you'd be good to go....can't really put a price on your time/work.....

The fact that it's completely legit to remove all markings but the serial number on a title-1 firearm mean that those importers marks can go away too.....

Do it....and engrave it "Wippet Mk 1, Cal .70"".....
Will Remington parts fit it? Wonder about savage too. I have one now that I chopped stock off of, but messes up my bbl\poly choke measurements and accidently cut the bbl too short. Right now the parts are kept in separately owned properties until I can find a long enough muzzle device to perm attach.
If anyone knows if savage parts will fit I may end up going this route.
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