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Posted: 1/3/2002 8:45:36 AM EDT
Vector Arms has FA Uzis NIB for $3295. They do offer quantity pricing...maybe if we get a group together to ship to one C3/SOT we could get a great deal going! Any interest?

QS
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:56:08 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 12:02:08 PM EDT
Mine's coming through a guy on the Bowers Board, David Skinner, FFL/SOT, Yuma AZ. The price was, I think, $2765.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:04:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2002 7:07:28 PM EDT by Fingers]
I was considering doing one of these.

This is off a post dated 1/1/02 on subguns.biggerhammer.net:

I have a large number of New in Box Vector UZI's coming in and want to move them fast so give me a call at 317-718-0948 M-F 10am-4pm for terms and details. We take Visa/M.C./AmEx/Discover/PayPal/Checks etc.

1 for $2700 shipped
5 for $2650 shipped each
10 for $2550 shipped each

Mini's for $4200 each shipped and can be added to the above listed quantity count to reach a minimum but no additional discount on quantities of the individual Mini's .

Coastal Arms suppressors are $110 each shipped with any gun purchase.

Gemtech Mossad/Mini-Mossad $525 each shipped with any gun purchase.

I will have Advanced Armament prices available very soon so e-mail me if you want one with your gun purchase.

Each gun comes with 1 mag , manual, and we will add a loader in with and will discount all accessories you purchase with each gun when possible.

The above listed prices include a 1.75% cash discount.

Its from Sunset Weapons SWS for what its worth.


Link Posted: 1/3/2002 7:08:51 PM EDT
If we could put together a group of 10 or more they would be getting almost reasonable. Just a thought.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 9:18:00 PM EDT
How long does it take to get a class 3 lic? I could request forms tomorrow. Been planning on a Vector Uzi, anyway.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 3:33:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
How long does it take to get a class 3 lic? I could request forms tomorrow. Been planning on a Vector Uzi, anyway.



To buy a machinegun, there is no special "license" you need to have. You only have to pay a $200 transfer tax and fill out the appropriate forms (form 4).

In filling out a form 4 the seller needs to fill out his information, then you fill out your info, you must then get a sign off by the CLEO in your area stating that he knows of no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to own a title II weapon and that it is not illegal in your area, and you must attach a passport photo. All of the above needs to be done in duplicate and you also need to have a set of fingerprints done.

After it's all done you just attach your $200 check, mail it off and start waiting. All in all it's pretty painless as long as you have a cooperating CLEO.

p.s. Somebody owes me a favor and I'm getting my Vector for $2595.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 4:37:34 AM EDT
Hey, I know that guy at Sunset...I live about 5 minutes from him. I could help coordinate this if we want to do it!

QS
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:40:09 AM EDT
ponyboy,
where do I get a form 4? Do FFLs have?
Does sale of machinegun require special lic or can any FFL do?
Do you purchase weapon first and then fill out forms, etc or vice versa?
How long does process take, generally?

Thanks
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:44:40 AM EDT
Works like this:

You pay the dealer.
Dealer will transfer weapon to dealer in your state.
You get the Form 4 from your dealer.
You get LEO signoff, fingerprint cards, and $200 M.O. and mail them to ATF.

You wait 2-12 months for ATF to return the approved Form 4, then you go back to the dealer and pay him a nominal fee for his effort, and pick up your shiny new toy.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:57:45 AM EDT
In the early 80s I had an Uzi converted. It was probably one of the first conversions done, and at that time there were absolutely no full auto parts available, let alone flooding the market like today. It did not work well at all. What's the beef on these Vector Uzis?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:15:15 AM EDT
These aren't conversions...they're real US made original full-autos. www.vectorarms.com

QS
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 7:48:39 AM EDT
QS, it looks like there's some interest in this. If you have the time it might be worth talking to the guy at Sunset and seeing what kind of a deal you can put together.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 8:26:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2002 8:26:32 AM EDT by QuietShootr]
Okay, here's the deal. If we get an order together for 5 or more we can get them for $2570 shipped. Additional 2% for credit cards. We need to have payment to Sunset by next Tuesday if you're using a credit card, or by Thursday if you're using certified funds. Who's in?

QS

Edited to add: Mods, can we get this tacked?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 9:29:52 AM EDT
BTT
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 9:51:18 AM EDT
Ok, so who is the money going to first in order to start the wheel rolling here?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 9:56:27 AM EDT
It's going to Sunset Weapons Systems.
You can call him if you're paying by credit card..make sure you tell him you're part of the AR15.com group purchase, and email me so I can verify that with him.

If you're going to send certified funds, you need to send them Priority mail or UPS Blue envelope to :

Sunset Weapons Systems
854 East CR 50 North
Danville, IN 46122-9156
Attn: Brian

and enclose a letter with your dealer's shipping information. You'll need to get your dealer to send a signed FFL to him at that address as well.

BTW, I thought I read in another thread you're only 20 years old....that's a no go for C3 purchases..

QS
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 10:01:49 AM EDT
Is there a time limit on this deal?

Is he cutting the price on gemtech massod any?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 10:03:17 AM EDT
See above...we have to have all funds to him by next Thursday. I'll check with him on the Mossad.

QS
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 10:05:51 AM EDT
I am working on it. Finances won't be a problem but I'm trying to get in touch with CLEO to see if he will approve. Have Class III dealer who will do transfer. Keep me posted.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 10:08:32 AM EDT
I'm working on my own deal too...got the $ but I'm trying to make sure Mrs.QS won't emasculate me.

Link Posted: 1/4/2002 10:18:58 AM EDT
If the CLEO will not sign off, you can incorporate and have the corporation buy and own it.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 10:20:17 AM EDT
Exactly...and as long as it's paid for, Brian will hold onto it for you as long as it takes to get that done.

QS
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 10:38:08 AM EDT
DrJarhead and others-- a few answers (I hang around enough on the Bowers board that I know some answers):

1. The biggest problem most people have in buying NFA items is the CLEO signoff. Check with the closest Class 3 dealer to see if he knows if someone will sign in your area. There are some locales that Machine Guns are Legal, but no-one can get them there because the Chief Law Enforcement Officer will not sign.

2. NFA items require PATIENCE!! It will take up to 6 months to get your Form 4 back approved if there are no problems. The ATF transfer office moves at a snails pace (forms are done by the first letter of your last name, and if you happen to have a speedy processor, you may get it very quickly).

3. The process for buying an NFA (National Firearms Act) item (Machine Gun, Supressor, Any Other Weapon, Short Barrel Rifle or Shotgun, or Destructive Device): Make sure it is legal in your area or state. Make sure a CLEO will sign in your area. Pay the Seller in part or in full (a private individual may take 1/2 down, the balance on when the transfer is approved, some dealer will also. A "group buy" generally requires cash up front). Wait. Wait some more. The Seller (in this case for the "Group Buy") gets the guns from Vector on a Form 3 (Tax free transfer form to a dealer). That dealer transfers it to your dealer (another Form 3). Your dealer gets it, and helps you fill out the Form 4 (tax paid transfer to individual). You submit the form, fingerprints, $200 to the ATF (the Form 4 must be signed by the CLEO). You wait a LONG time. The Form 4 comes back and you get your gun. I would say full auto is better than Sex, but I've been married 12 years, so I forgot what sex is like.

Link Posted: 1/4/2002 10:38:58 AM EDT
Continued:

Some catches:
A. No CLEO signoff.
B. Fingerprints not readable (don't try to do them yourself, pay the local PD to do it for you--it is not worth saving the $5 or $10 to have to wait another 4 months for the paperwork to come back not approved because the fingerprints weren't readable).


In general, if you are legal to buy a regular firearm, you can buy a Machine Gun.

One way to get around the lack of a CLEO signoff is to incorporate--no CLEO signoff or Fingerprints needed for corporate ownership of a machine gun. However, you must still follow the local/state laws on Corporations. Once the corporation dissolves, the NFA item has to be transfered somewhere (i.e. to a dealer or to an individual).

The total wait on a "Group Purchase"
1 Month to the Group Purchaser.
1 Month to your dealer.
3-4 Months to you on the Form 4
That is assuming no hold ups.

The good news--the Vector, by the time you get the gun you paid $2700 for is probably worth about $3200, and will keep going up from there.

The Vector UZI's are built on "Group Industries" receivers. Group went bankrupt with THOUSANDS of Registered Receiver Blanks (already formed into the correct shape/size, holes drilled, and serial #'ed). Vector bought them for pennies on the dollar, and has been using them to produce new machine guns since then. A few parts from the "parts kits"--cut up machine guns--on the market would need minor fitting to work. You will find ONE person on several boards, under several names BIT*HING about how they lack the proper heat treat, etc. Everyone else loves them, and the experts say they are better fit and finished than the original IMI guns. They work great with ball ammo, and if you install a cut down semi-auto barrel (better feed ramp), they function flawlessly with hollow points. A .45 kit is available, as is a .22 kit.

Here's a tip--someone on the Bowers Boards sells and modifies UZI grip frames to fit Grease Gun mags (30 rds of .45 in a cheap mag, vs. 16 rds of .45 in an expensive mag for the Vector/IMI conversion).

Vectors are easy to supress, built bull strong, and will significantly increase in value once the receivers they are building them on are used up. As someone else pointed out--before Vector built the guns, UZI's (conversions) were running MORE than M-16's. Early converted Registered Receiver guns did have some problems, depending on who did the conversion. Vectors are proven guns with a 1 year warrantee.

AFARR
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 10:39:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/4/2002 10:41:56 AM EDT by QuietShootr]
Good information... for those of us who already own some C3 stuff, it seems to take less time after your first transfer.
I didn't hear that about the greasegun mags...that'd be great! I'd jump on that! How much are the modded grip frames?

QS
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 11:55:36 AM EDT
This sounds like a great deal but when, exactly, is this guy "getting them in".? Anybody ever dealt with this guy? I'm not too crazy about somebody gathering funds and sitting on them for a month and then placing the order with Vector when they feel they have enough orders. Any info?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 12:04:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Beowulf:
This sounds like a great deal but when, exactly, is this guy "getting them in".? Anybody ever dealt with this guy? I'm not too crazy about somebody gathering funds and sitting on them for a month and then placing the order with Vector when they feel they have enough orders. Any info?



He's ordering them a week from today, so he isn't sitting on funds at all. He'll start the transfer to your C3 dealer as soon as he gets the signed copy of your dealer's license. Brian has been in business around here (Indianapolis area) for several years. He's a reputable guy.

QS
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 12:34:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:

After it's all done you just attach your $200 check, mail it off and start waiting. All in all it's pretty painless as long as you have a cooperating CLEO.

p.s. Somebody owes me a favor and I'm getting my Vector for $2595.



I wonder how amenable the Chief of Police in Houston would be to signing off on one of these?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 1:03:54 PM EDT
QS--If I recall properly, the grip frames were in the $200-250 range. The ad crops up occasionally on Bowers, and you could probably ask and get a quicker answer on the NFA discussion board.


Beowulf--Reputation is everything in the Class 3 world. Occasionally you will have a few disputes over whether the gun was unfired or fired, 95% or 98%, etc. but the guys that are rip-offs are generally weeded out pretty quickly. I usually go by the Bowers "Recommended Dealer" list on Subguns.com, and he also has a "Board of Inquiry" message board to ask about dealers and sellers and buyers (do a search first on the name before you ask).

I got in on a group purchase, and it is still at the dealer's waiting on my Brother to find a dealer in PA.

AFARR
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 1:15:00 PM EDT
jarhead, according to the table at http://www.vectorarms.com/indexframe.html, machine guns are legal in WI (there is at least one error in this table, so verify with C3 dealer).

I did not see anywhere where they wanted to order on a certain date.

I've been looking at full-sized Uzi's for over 2 months. $2700 is as good as it gets. Most used ones are more than this. 32-rnd mags are expensive, but 5-25 rounders in pouch can be had for about $75.

This should be confirmed, but it looks like they will ship direct from Uzi to the final purchaser's C3 so that should speed up the transfer (because it's only 1).

I know a guy that bought the mini-uzi. He didn't like it, almost uncontrolable. Another guy I know has an uzi bolt gun. He likes it and shoots it all the time.

I'm in for 1 if we can get 10 together. If it's only 5, it may not be worth the $50 difference.

Who will coordinate funds, etc. Will funds go to C3, or AR15.com rep?
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 2:04:29 PM EDT
I ordered one last week, $2800! Damn it!

The dealer I am buying from said the Uzis Vector is selling are better made and more reliable than the IMIs. He said he has sold 25 in the past year and not one has needed service.

I heard the same thing regarding the Mini Uzis... to fast cyclical. With the standard Uzi it is very easy to bump off 1-2 round bursts.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 2:56:16 PM EDT
I hate California.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 3:23:39 PM EDT
Yeah, I think you can put me down for at least one. Maybe two. One for me and one to throw in the safe. I don't see them being worth any less in the future. And they are a blast to shoot. I'll need to get another job to feed it though.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 5:44:12 PM EDT
Alright, I made the call. He dosen't have them in stock, but he's odering them next Friday. I think I'm in, assuming my CLEO will still sign. The guy says he's out of the office until Monday and says he's only in from 10:00 till 3:00 all next week. I've got his cell phone number and after I check with my dealer about the CLEO sign off I'll be ordering one tomorrow.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 7:39:30 AM EDT
So how many guns are we looking at here? I'm working on all my friends here in LAS and have a couple interested.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 8:34:24 AM EDT
I am interested in one possibly two.

Houston, where are you located. I may be able to help out with the incorporation if interested.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 1:27:09 PM EDT
I've got a dealer in Las Vegas lined up to do the transfer for $50. Does that sound about right? Does anyone have any opinions on the suppresors for these things? How about the .22 and .45 conversion kits? I think the conversion kits are worth having. I'm not sure the suppressor is worth the money and hassle of another form 4. It gets cool points but is it really useful?
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 1:31:39 PM EDT
BTW both dealers I spoke to here in Las Vegas said that $2570 was a very good deal on these things and better than they could get them for. In case anyone needs a little reassurance.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 9:19:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/5/2002 9:50:55 PM EDT by bmg]
I sent my money in for 1 yesterday (Friday).

For CLEO signoff, any Chief of Police or Sheriff can signoff. Sometimes the Chief won't, but the Sheriff will. My Chief is great, he came in on a Saturday during his vacation to sign my Form 4. The Sheriff will sign too, but it takes a full day because you have to drop it off. I love Idaho!

$50 for a transfer is pretty good. Most guys here charge $100, but more C3's are bringing the price down. I got a guy that will do it for $50. Sometimes you can meet a friend at a MG shoot and they'll do it free.

Because this is a registered receiver (and not a registered bolt), you can buy a conversion kit (to .45 acp or .22 LR) at your leisure without going through a dealer.

Has anybody asked Sunset Weapons to see if Vector will ship direct to our FFL/SOT instead of going through Sunset Weapons. A direct ship from Vector will cut 5-8 weeks off the total transfer time. Not that I'm ANXIOUS or anything.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 11:34:24 PM EDT
I'm in for one and a buddy is in for one and I've got another maybe from another guy. How many more of us have committed?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 5:37:04 AM EDT
I plan on going in on one. Need to check CLEO tomorrow. How do I check out SWS? Nothing at subguns.com that I saw about them.
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 7:57:03 AM EDT
Here's the post from 1/5/02:
subguns.biggerhammer.net/nfaad.cgi?read=6699
Hopefully we have 5 guys. I have 2 for sure in Las Vegas. Anyone know about the idea of having them dropped shipped directly to our FFL's instead of to SWS first?
Link Posted: 1/6/2002 8:34:14 PM EDT
what does everyone know about supressors?
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 6:20:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kikomax:
I am interested in one possibly two.

Houston, where are you located. I may be able to help out with the incorporation if interested.



Thanks, I'm interested but do not have the funds at this time. I actually live in Kingwood, annexed by Houston. Can anybody but the Houston Chief of Police sign off on this?
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 6:33:31 AM EDT
We're there on 5...it's all good from here on out.

I'll check with Brian on the direct ship to your dealer thing.

Vector has .22 kits and .45 kits. I'm thinking I'm going to have to have one of each!
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 8:07:58 AM EDT
If you order the conversion kit from Brian with your order the .22lr kit is $215 but is on backorder for 3-4 weeks and the .45 kits are $190 and in stock. I think I'm ordering one of each also. The gemtech suppressors come highly recommended but are pricey. QuietShootr, Thanks for setting this up.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 8:30:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Houston:

Originally Posted By Ponyboy:

After it's all done you just attach your $200 check, mail it off and start waiting. All in all it's pretty painless as long as you have a cooperating CLEO.

p.s. Somebody owes me a favor and I'm getting my Vector for $2595.



I wonder how amenable the Chief of Police in Houston would be to signing off on one of these?



HA.

HA HA.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 9:50:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
We're there on 5...it's all good from here on out.

I'll check with Brian on the direct ship to your dealer thing.

Vector has .22 kits and .45 kits. I'm thinking I'm going to have to have one of each!



Thanks, Quietshootr. I agree you've done a great job setting this up. We're in your debt!

I have an FFL who's agreed to take delivery, the money, and I meet with the CLEO this afternoon. He has tentatively agreed. As fas as I'm concerned, I'm in 99.9% at this point. Think I'll go with a gemtech can as well. Will let you know later re: CLEO.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 1:37:46 PM EDT
Remember that if you get a supressor, that is on a separate Form 4 so it requires an additional $200 for the tax stamp and extra pictures. I believe you can submit just one set (pair) of finger prints for both (but verify this with your C3 and/or NFA branch of BATF).
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 1:43:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bmg:
Remember that if you get a supressor, that is on a separate Form 4 so it requires an additional $200 for the tax stamp and extra pictures. I believe you can submit just one set (pair) of finger prints for both (but verify this with your C3 and/or NFA branch of BATF).



Well, I'm in. CLEO was cool about it. Was kinda excited about me getting a suppressed UZI. I think he wants to shoot it!

yeah, I know about the 2nd form. Another $200 in taxes. Damn.
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