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Posted: 7/29/2009 12:08:25 PM EST
I've been selling some guns off to pay for a new MG and I'm torn between the two of these. Should I go with the Lightning Link or Uzi? I've fired both, well not a LL, but a RR M16, and like both. I have an M11/9 SMG already.
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 3:20:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/29/2009 3:21:18 PM EST by orangelo]
Once you get the Uzi you won't want the MAC any more, and you can sell it and use the funds to help pay for the LL

Arfcom answer -> get both
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 3:39:16 PM EST
Go for the LL first as there's much fewer of them registered than Uzis. The LL will give you lots more caliber choices too.
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 4:02:06 PM EST
Originally Posted By Hail Mary:
Go for the LL first as there's much fewer of them registered than Uzis. The LL will give you lots more caliber choices too.


True, but you CAN NOT run 22lr with a LL

Link Posted: 7/29/2009 4:39:40 PM EST
I'm biased toward the RLL. With the RLL you can a mg in any caliber that the AR platform supports... except .22lr. I absolutly love mine.

I've shot a couple Uzi's and I personally don't like them too much. I seem to be a minority though.

Whatever you decide, I don't think you can go wrong.
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 6:37:11 PM EST
skip the LL and buy a RR, forget the Uzi all together.
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 8:20:50 PM EST
Get the LL. Just make sure you get the KNS protector for it.

Link Posted: 7/29/2009 8:23:53 PM EST
Originally Posted By MP15T:
Originally Posted By Hail Mary:
Go for the LL first as there's much fewer of them registered than Uzis. The LL will give you lots more caliber choices too.


True, but you CAN NOT run 22lr with a LL




He will just have to buy that LAGE 22 conversion for his mac when it comes out instead
Link Posted: 7/29/2009 9:32:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/29/2009 9:33:01 PM EST by MrM4]
Good idea Dave, but the list is long. Dont worry I'll post some pics of mine when it arrives, it pays to get on the list early
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 6:01:51 AM EST
Originally Posted By MP15T:
Originally Posted By Hail Mary:
Go for the LL first as there's much fewer of them registered than Uzis. The LL will give you lots more caliber choices too.


True, but you CAN NOT run 22lr with a LL



That was my only holdback on the LL. The only way I could do a RR is to sell the mac or some more guns, not really what I want to do. How are the 9mm M16's? How do you compare them to an Uzi? Anybody do 7.62 x 39 or 5.45 x 39 with the LL?
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 2:12:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2009 2:15:59 PM EST by jbntex]
Originally Posted By sp3worker:
Originally Posted By MP15T:
Originally Posted By Hail Mary:
Go for the LL first as there's much fewer of them registered than Uzis. The LL will give you lots more caliber choices too.


True, but you CAN NOT run 22lr with a LL



That was my only holdback on the LL. The only way I could do a RR is to sell the mac or some more guns, not really what I want to do. How are the 9mm M16's? How do you compare them to an Uzi? Anybody do 7.62 x 39 or 5.45 x 39 with the LL?


You have a couple options.

You could purchase a fleming design 22LR kit for your M11 if you are mechanically inclined. Contrary to popular opinion the fleming kits can be made to run almost 100% (and for me half the fun is tinkering to make things work)

Here is a video of my M11/9 with a fleming kit. 100rds with no failures and no video edits. (Also was done in one take before people ask how many tries it took)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW-S6FnUsjc

From an M16 9MM setup, I like the M16 9MM with a LRM suppressed top end better than my Vector Uzi with a Gemtech Mossad.

My M16 9MM




For one the LRM unit knocks out the sonic crack (similar to an MP5SD) without having to use expensive subsonic rounds. However, I will say that the LRM unit is not as quiet as a MP5 A3 with a Trident-9 and Special K. (which is the most quiet subgun combo I have found)

There is a night and day difference between having a sonic crack and not having one The LRM integral unit also smooths out the recoil to a much greater extent than the Uzi (which can be choppy, especially with the ROF) and the ergonomics of the M16 are much better in my opinion over the Uzi.

Since you already have the subgun covered I would go for a rifle caliber machinegun. My advice on this board is to always save a few more thousand dollars and find a RR M16, especially if this is going to be your one rifle caliber machinegun. (Nothing sucks like driving a couple hours with some friend to shoot this new multi-thousand dollar machinegun and have it not run 100%) Lightning Links *can* (but not always) be a bit more finicky that receiver guns especially when you start swapping around uppers and bolt carriers and the small tolerence difference between the carriers/upper rear lugs work great with one link paddle and wear it in just right but when switching to another upper with different tolerences can cause problems at times.

If $6500 is your absolute max spend and since you already have a subgun I would go with the Lightning Link over an Uzi. Worst case all you are giving up is 22LR if you don't want to wait for R Lage's unit or tinker and mod a fleming unit for the M11/9.

My opinion

M11 (9MM & Maybe 22LR) + a rifle caliber M16 (9MM, 5.56x454, 7.62x39) is a better combo than a M11 (9MM) and Uzi (9MM, 45ACP, 22LR) - which pretty much just gives you two 9MM subguns with a 22 option.

My thoughts - coming from somebody who owns all four types of guns discussed in this thread (RR M16, RLL, Uzi, and M11/9)

James
Austin, Texas

Link Posted: 7/30/2009 4:21:31 PM EST
Originally Posted By MP15T:
Originally Posted By Hail Mary:
Go for the LL first as there's much fewer of them registered than Uzis. The LL will give you lots more caliber choices too.


True, but you CAN NOT run 22lr with a LL



True, but you CAN NOT run .223 with the Uzi.


The LL can easily run 9mm, 7.62x25, .380, .45, 10mm, 40 S&W, 223, 7.62x39, 5.45x39. And maybe one day, 9x23.
Link Posted: 7/30/2009 5:12:33 PM EST
Originally Posted By M-11Dave:
He will just have to buy that LAGE 22 conversion for his mac when it comes out instead


I gave up waiting on the Lage 22 unit several years ago and bought an Uzi instead. I'm happy I did.

I ended up selling my MAC10/45 a couple of years after getting the Uzi, as the Uzi can do anything the MAC did. Granted, I don't currently have a .45 conversion for the Uzi, but I usually had the MAC set up in 9mm any way.

The M16/9 can be tricky to get running at times. The Uzi is definitely more forgiving. It is also much heavier. Neither is as smooth as a Sterling, but both can be shot well.

I probably should have held out for the M16, but I would have likely fired it 90% in 9mm & .22 anyway, with only the occasional burst of .223.

If you can, try shooting both before you decide.
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 7:43:56 AM EST
Buy the Uzi, sell the MAC, buy a registered receiver M16. The M16 still is the most versatile civilian mg and the UZI is nice; both have .22 options. These days having an mg that doesn't shoot .22 is a liability as far as shooting fun goes. When someone makes a .22 kit for the MP5 I'm going to hold a party!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PS, Sterlings are at least as nice as UZIs but don't have the .22 option.
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 10:05:40 AM EST
Ok, I just bought one of the Fleming M11-.22 conversion kits today, so I think I'm going that route with the .22. If I could find a RR cheap enough I'd go that route, I really don't want to sell any more of the guns I have to pay for it though. I'll keep my eyes open for something, but it looks like I'm going the LL route.
Link Posted: 7/31/2009 3:18:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By sp3worker:
Ok, I just bought one of the Fleming M11-.22 conversion kits today, so I think I'm going that route with the .22. If I could find a RR cheap enough I'd go that route, I really don't want to sell any more of the guns I have to pay for it though. I'll keep my eyes open for something, but it looks like I'm going the LL route.


Dude... Don't think down on the RLL. IMO the RLL is superior to the RR. My reason is this. You can have 1000 hosts in any configuration you can dream of. Add your link and volia. You have a MG. If you drop the rifle... Who cares? If somehow you get a kaboom and the lower is damaged... Who cares? Simply replace the host and your RLL is undamaged.

With the RR you have to swap mag well adapters, stocks, pistol grips ect, ect, ect.

I have 3 ARs. A retro SP-1, a M4A1, and a 5" 9mm SD. Each rifle is very different. But all I have to do is throw my link in the rifle and away I go. None of the changing out parts to get the setup I want to shoot.

I do have friends with RRs who say it really isn't a big deal to them. To me I think it would be.

If you want a nice Colt that's going to be a safe queen, get a RR. If you want something to shoot, get the RLL.

My $.02
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 8:30:32 AM EST
Originally Posted By Magoo6541:
Originally Posted By sp3worker:
Ok, I just bought one of the Fleming M11-.22 conversion kits today, so I think I'm going that route with the .22. If I could find a RR cheap enough I'd go that route, I really don't want to sell any more of the guns I have to pay for it though. I'll keep my eyes open for something, but it looks like I'm going the LL route.


Dude... Don't think down on the RLL. IMO the RLL is superior to the RR. My reason is this. You can have 1000 hosts in any configuration you can dream of. Add your link and volia. You have a MG. If you drop the rifle... Who cares? If somehow you get a kaboom and the lower is damaged... Who cares? Simply replace the host and your RLL is undamaged.

With the RR you have to swap mag well adapters, stocks, pistol grips ect, ect, ect.

I have 3 ARs. A retro SP-1, a M4A1, and a 5" 9mm SD. Each rifle is very different. But all I have to do is throw my link in the rifle and away I go. None of the changing out parts to get the setup I want to shoot.

I do have friends with RRs who say it really isn't a big deal to them. To me I think it would be.

If you want a nice Colt that's going to be a safe queen, get a RR. If you want something to shoot, get the RLL.

My $.02



Not getting down on the LL. I agree with you on the idea of multiple host guns, I've got a SP-1 I'm keeping. What kind of receivers are you using? I have a CMMG with a 20" A2 I could keep as a host if it will work.
Link Posted: 8/1/2009 9:06:07 PM EST
Why hasn't anyone suggested the use of a RDAIS?

What's the issue with them aside from price?
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 7:06:48 AM EST
I'd get the LL. Lots more you can do with it. Or sell the MAC and get a nice RR. I picked up a RR M16 for a hair over $8k about a month ago, so you are close to getting one.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 7:12:53 AM EST
Originally Posted By ftldrben:
Why hasn't anyone suggested the use of a RDAIS?

What's the issue with them aside from price?


I think this.
Link Posted: 8/2/2009 8:13:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
Originally Posted By ftldrben:
Why hasn't anyone suggested the use of a RDAIS?

What's the issue with them aside from price?


I think this.


Tell me about it. I bought one for a $11,000 and that's a deal now...

Still, you have to move around the entire FCG each time you move the RDIAS. Do you not have to change the FCG w/a LL?

Link Posted: 8/2/2009 1:00:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By ftldrben:
Originally Posted By TCBA_Joe:
Originally Posted By ftldrben:
Why hasn't anyone suggested the use of a RDAIS?

What's the issue with them aside from price?


I think this.


Tell me about it. I bought one for a $11,000 and that's a deal now...

Still, you have to move around the entire FCG each time you move the RDIAS. Do you not have to change the FCG w/a LL?


You do not have to move the FCG around. The RLL uses either a AR-15 FCG ((as was intended) you get 0-A) or you can use a modified M16A2 FCG to get 0-1-A.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 3:59:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By damcv62:
I'd get the LL. Lots more you can do with it. Or sell the MAC and get a nice RR. I picked up a RR M16 for a hair over $8k about a month ago, so you are close to getting one.



If I could get a RR for $8k I'll go that route. What kind did you get?
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 4:55:06 PM EST
You'll kick yourself for not getting the RR/DIAS/LL.... You already have a subgun, one that can be made into an MP5 beater with a Max-11 kit, and soon the .22 kits will be out. They are beta testing as we speak, and knowing Richard, they will be right.
Link Posted: 8/3/2009 7:04:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:
You'll kick yourself for not getting the RR/DIAS/LL.... You already have a subgun, one that can be made into an MP5 beater with a Max-11 kit, and soon the .22 kits will be out. They are beta testing as we speak, and knowing Richard, they will be right.


So I should be looking at a M-11 w/Lange upper? Is that the Max-11 kit of which you speak?

Why would I want one when I have a select fire LWRC SMG (via RDIAS) and an Uzi (Group A) other then being an arfcomer and needing more?

Whats my rational reason? I'm thinking of another RDIAS for my RRA 9mm SBR (suppressed)...that'll be a blast

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