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Posted: 6/4/2007 9:49:59 PM EST
How good or bad an idea is that?

I just bought a Winchester 94 Trapper in .44 mag. I'm thinking of loading .44 Special HPs in it and putting it beside my nightstand.
Link Posted: 6/4/2007 10:06:35 PM EST
IMHO. if im going to use a rifle for defense, I want a rifle round in it. however, the .44 mag would probably be the exception due to the fact that the round count in tube is probably what, 8? so the increase in capacity may be worth it concidering the power of the .44 mag.
but not the .38/.357. its all up to you in the end though, im just one mans opinion.
Link Posted: 6/4/2007 10:07:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/4/2007 10:10:38 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/5/2007 7:31:23 AM EST by john575]
better than a rotten tomato.
I have one in 30-30. .44 mag is a great round for a carbine+ a big hole.
Link Posted: 6/4/2007 10:16:12 PM EST

Don't forget the Bowie Knife.



Link Posted: 6/5/2007 12:34:49 AM EST
With a pistol round like .357/.44 you'll have much more controllability in the rifle, which lends itself to faster follow up shots and a longer sight-radius = better accuracy potential. If you're in a gun-fearing state, a lever-action ("cowboy") gun would be a lot less scary to a jury than an EBR.
Link Posted: 6/5/2007 6:32:48 AM EST
i think a lever gun in pistol caliber is a great choice for home defence
Link Posted: 6/5/2007 7:21:59 AM EST
.44mag out of a rifle length barrel ain't a pistol round any more.
Link Posted: 6/5/2007 7:25:31 AM EST
I don't see why not.
Link Posted: 6/5/2007 7:45:01 AM EST

Originally Posted By shadow870:
IMHO. if im going to use a rifle for defense, I want a rifle round in it.


This should be common sense.
Link Posted: 6/5/2007 3:24:29 PM EST
Not a bad idea but I prefer a M1 Carbine for my home defense rifle. Unless you are an expert with a lever action the M1 would be better in a serious social altercation with a two legged varmit. Much easier to just aim and shoot than to work the lever then aim. A M1 Carbine with soft points will handle any bad guy!!!
Link Posted: 6/5/2007 3:35:17 PM EST
Very good choice.
Link Posted: 6/5/2007 6:28:20 PM EST
. . . also convienent for administering a butt-stroke to the head.
Link Posted: 6/5/2007 7:23:28 PM EST
I have always wanted a Marlin lever guide gun in 44 mag. It just seemed like a really great package. It would match well with my Ruger Superblackhawk with 4 5/8" barrel.
Link Posted: 6/5/2007 7:53:24 PM EST

Originally Posted By shadow870:
IMHO. if im going to use a rifle for defense, I want a rifle round in it. however, the .44 mag would probably be the exception due to the fact that the round count in tube is probably what, 8? so the increase in capacity may be worth it concidering the power of the .44 mag.
but not the .38/.357. its all up to you in the end though, im just one mans opinion.


MMmmm, heres something to think about.

a .357 load out of a rifle is freakin awesome. not even the same class of load.

i've worked in the 4 of the largest ranking trauma centers in OK and worked hundreds of gunshots.

i have never worked on a person shot center mass with a .357 that survived. i have worked on 5-6 fatalities that were shot in lower extremities with the round.

i think all have been shot with a revolver. with the damage i have seen, and the game i have seen in the wild taken with a .357 rifle..deer and hogs as well as large dogs.

i would actually pick a .357 over a .44mag rifle, mostly due to ammo availablity 38-357 and faster followup shots.

to put things in perspective. a .357 max out of a rifle gives you 30-30 type data. so a .357 mag aint that far behind.

out of all loads..
i have more respect for a good .357 load on a human than any other round, based on what i have seen in the last 15 years.

a man shot with a good .357 load is not causing anymore problems.
Link Posted: 6/5/2007 8:05:55 PM EST
I got a Wincheste 94 in .357 for my niece because she wanted a gun for home defence. She had hunted before with a .30-30 so I figured she already know how to use the rifle and action and all that. Its not as "tactical" compared to most Arf.comers weapons but it works and its better than nothing.
Link Posted: 6/6/2007 6:00:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/6/2007 6:00:55 PM EST by Talyn]
The .357 in a lever action is perfectly fine for self-defense. All we need is a decent rail system for the lasers & lights!
Link Posted: 6/6/2007 6:03:56 PM EST


whatever works for you, great, but...

it looses points for not being semi-auto

it looses points for being a pistol caliber in a full size long arm

it looses points for not having a good reflex dot sight

it looses points for being a tradional monte-carlo stock


what is wrong with a good old AR15 again? you know, the same gun that the majority of professional gunfighters use (at least in this millennium, can't be sure about 1905)
Link Posted: 6/6/2007 6:41:07 PM EST
Well, 44-40's shot out of Win. 73's and 92's did in a lot of bad guys.
Link Posted: 6/6/2007 7:03:27 PM EST
I believe in the idea of "it's the shooter, not the gun". If you are accurate and fast, you dont need 4 magazines with 30 rounds each in your semi-auto laser mounted AR. Of course I have both, but that's me.

If you like lever actions, ask your gunsmith about installing a "short-stroke" on you lever.
Link Posted: 6/6/2007 7:31:05 PM EST
Lucas McCain liked his in .44-40
Link Posted: 6/6/2007 7:46:36 PM EST
The only choice should be a Marlin in .45-70.
Link Posted: 6/6/2007 7:56:50 PM EST
had an old marlin saddle ring carbine in .44mag that thing was tits on @ 100 yds. follow up shots on 1 gal water jugs were impressive. if i did not have a trashed wrist i'd still own a few lever actions
i don't see any issue with one of the .38/357 or 44 mag rifles as a home defense gun.
as others posted it's the shooter more so then the gun.
Link Posted: 6/7/2007 6:00:52 AM EST

Originally Posted By Talyn:
The .357 in a lever action is perfectly fine for self-defense. All we need is a decent rail system for the lasers & lights!




Link Posted: 6/7/2007 2:35:20 PM EST
I forgot to mention that a bayonet can be attached to the M1 Carbine for those up close encounters.
Link Posted: 6/7/2007 7:38:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/7/2007 7:41:03 PM EST by Milquetoast]
Excellent choice in those Kommunist states, where it is illegal to have a handgun, or God forbid a semi-auto "assault weapon." A lever is not as good as a semi-auto, but it's not chopped liver, either. If a lever .357 or .44 was "all" I had, I would not feel inadequately armed.

As for the .44 Specials, they are plenty powerful. You just need to test them for reliable feeding at your max levering speed. Because they are shorter, they have a slightly longer "jump" to get into the chamber, and sometimes they can get a little cattywumpus en route.
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 4:17:23 PM EST
I tried a lever action Marlin in .357 magnum for a self defense weapon. It is a good caliber but the lever action is significantly slower for follow up shots as compared to the semi-auto. You will have to invest quite a bit of time in practicing with the lever action rifle to be anywhere close to a semi-auto. Its fun to dream about being a real bad ass cowboy but reality is something else. Use it if you can't have a semi-auto. Just be sure to practice, practice, practice.........
Link Posted: 6/8/2007 6:39:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/8/2007 6:40:30 PM EST by savage_winchester]

Originally Posted By bh5505:


whatever works for you, great, but...

it looses points for not being semi-auto

it looses points for being a pistol caliber in a full size long arm

it looses points for not having a good reflex dot sight

it looses points for being a tradional monte-carlo stock


what is wrong with a good old AR15 again? you know, the same gun that the majority of professional gunfighters use (at least in this millennium, can't be sure about 1905)

You looses points for no speel chek.
I'm just kidding, for HD purposes, I mostly agree with you.
I'm just a sucker for Wins.
Link Posted: 6/13/2007 3:20:08 PM EST
My Win in 44Rem Mag held 9+1,while a real hot .42 cal it wasn't any hotter than my 30/30 win in fact the 30/30 had more energy at 200yrds that the .44 at the muzzel!

But all said if I had to have a rifle with pistol rounds it would be the .45colt and the .44Rem Mag secound!

It's still a good and VERY bad round!

Bob
Link Posted: 6/13/2007 5:32:51 PM EST

Originally Posted By KA3B:

Originally Posted By Talyn:
The .357 in a lever action is perfectly fine for self-defense. All we need is a decent rail system for the lasers & lights!


www.vaq34.com/junk/snactical_lever_action.jpg



Ya know that doesnt look half bad with that ACOG on there!
Link Posted: 6/16/2007 6:21:23 PM EST
Heres my choice for a lever gun.

www.jbcustom.com/new-mares.htmwww.jbcustom.com/new-mares.htm
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 3:20:55 AM EST
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 3:27:34 AM EST

Originally Posted By rxdawg:
.44mag out of a rifle length barrel ain't a pistol round any more.
+1
IIRC, a full house 44 Rem Mag out of a rifle barrel can penetrate Type IIIA body armor.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 10:04:46 PM EST
Why in the world would you choose a weapon designed in 1894 as your home defense wapon?, technology has advanced quite a bit since then, and there are MUCH more effective weapons available, I'm not saying it can't do the job, but why? Is this the only weapon you have? Are you conserned with what an anti-gun district attorney, and jury might say?, those are the only reasons I can think of. Why deliberately hamstring yourself with a manualy operated weapon when there are semi-autos available?, why limit yourself to such a low magazine capacity, when you can get something with 30+ rounds? You may not think you "need" it, but what if you do?, what if there are multipal bad guys, you miss under the stress or both? Do you want to be haveing to work a lever action under stress, and possibly running out of ammo during the middle of a firefight, then haveing to go through a LONG reload (Ammo can go FAST in a firefight)?, when you could just grab a modern semi-auto, and just point and shoot, and have enough ammo capacity where you shouldn't realisticly run out, and if you do the reloads only take a few seconds?

My first choice would be an AR-15, or AK-47 depending on your situation, and prefference. If your conserned with what an anti-gun prossecutor, or jury might think then you could consider the M1 Carbine, or M1 Garand, or slightly less politicly correct a Mini-14, Mini-30, SKS. If you simply MUST have a pistol caliber you could consider the Berretta Storm, or even the Hi-Point, or better yet an AR-15 in 9mm, or someother pistol caliber.

If you HAVE to use a manualy operated weapon than I would go with a 12 Guage shotgun you have a simular speed, and magazine capacity as the lever action, but ALOT more power, and some might argue less chance of over penetration. I would recomend the Mossberg 590, Mossberg 590A1, or Mossberg 500, if you want something more politicly correct the Remington 870.
Link Posted: 6/17/2007 11:41:49 PM EST
I'd say a lever action chambered for something like .44 is just about enough to compensate for not being semi-auto. That's just about a one hit stop. And I know I can make very fast follow-up shots with my Winchester.

And I'd say an AR or an AK is overkill for general HD. But that's just my opinion.
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 7:27:30 AM EST

Originally Posted By Small_Arms_Collector:
Why in the world would you choose a weapon designed in 1894 as your home defense wapon?, technology has advanced quite a bit since then, and there are MUCH more effective weapons available, I'm not saying it can't do the job, but why? Is this the only weapon you have? Are you conserned with what an anti-gun district attorney, and jury might say?, those are the only reasons I can think of. Why deliberately hamstring yourself with a manualy operated weapon when there are semi-autos available?, why limit yourself to such a low magazine capacity, when you can get something with 30+ rounds? You may not think you "need" it, but what if you do?, what if there are multipal bad guys, you miss under the stress or both? Do you want to be haveing to work a lever action under stress, and possibly running out of ammo during the middle of a firefight, then haveing to go through a LONG reload (Ammo can go FAST in a firefight)?, when you could just grab a modern semi-auto, and just point and shoot, and have enough ammo capacity where you shouldn't realisticly run out, and if you do the reloads only take a few seconds?

My first choice would be an AR-15, or AK-47 depending on your situation, and prefference. If your conserned with what an anti-gun prossecutor, or jury might think then you could consider the M1 Carbine, or M1 Garand, or slightly less politicly correct a Mini-14, Mini-30, SKS. If you simply MUST have a pistol caliber you could consider the Berretta Storm, or even the Hi-Point, or better yet an AR-15 in 9mm, or someother pistol caliber.

If you HAVE to use a manualy operated weapon than I would go with a 12 Guage shotgun you have a simular speed, and magazine capacity as the lever action, but ALOT more power, and some might argue less chance of over penetration. I would recomend the Mossberg 590, Mossberg 590A1, or Mossberg 500, if you want something more politicly correct the Remington 870.


this could be the most assinine post ever on ARFCOM..
there is a really good reason the marlin and winchester leverguns are still in use in many types of situations.

1- THEY WORK
2- SIMPLICITY
3- RUGGED
4- UNIVERSAL APPEAL

these actions have been used as a survivial tool since before most living people in our world. they have accounted for millions of game animals, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of self defense scenerios.

a levergun of a moderate/high caliber one of the most deadliest tools ever invented.

99.9% of all gunplay is done within 4-6 rounds.
end of story

i have failed to see any instance where an EBR was used as a civilian that a skilled person with a levergun could not have achieved the same results.

if you want to see what a skilled person can do with a levergun, make your way to a cowboy SASS shoot. you'll go away humbled. the volume of accurate fire in trained hands is astounding.

a shotgun cannot do what a rifle can do.
proven fact.
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 7:32:40 AM EST
Just get a revolver chambered in the same round and use it for home defense.

Then you also have one hell of a bug out/shtf/backwoods set-up as well.
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 7:43:49 AM EST

Originally Posted By M4MikelA3:
Just get a revolver chambered in the same round and use it for home defense.

Then you also have one hell of a bug out/shtf/backwoods set-up as well.


Not a bad suggestion. Provides consistancy of ammo used between firearms. If you're into reloading this provides a lot of advantages.
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 12:46:16 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/18/2007 12:46:34 PM EST by txgp17]

Originally Posted By Small_Arms_Collector:
Why in the world would you choose a weapon designed in 1894 as your home defense wapon?, technology has advanced quite a bit since then, and there are MUCH more effective weapons available, I'm not saying it can't do the job, but why?
That argument doesn't go far. Why in the world would one choose a weapon designed in 1911 as your home defense weapon? Because it's reliable, accurate, and deadly powerful.

why limit yourself to such a low magazine capacity?
A 1894 holds 10 rounds. That isn't a low number.



Originally Posted By muddydog:
this could be the most asinine post ever on ARFCOM..
agreed

a shotgun cannot do what a rifle can do.
proven fact.
Yeah, but a rifle cannot do what a shotgun can do either.
Inside 50 yards, there is nothing more lethal than a shotgun.
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 1:01:23 PM EST
I had a lever action 357 rifle once couldn't quite figure out what it was good for. The same rifle in 30-30 or other rifle round is better on deer. A handgun in the same round is easier to use in the confines of a house.

On the other hand a 44mag is a pretty good all around round in a rifle.

On the other, other hand, what is the first thing to go in a stressful situation?
Fine motor skills.

What does it take to load a lever action, particularly under stress?
Fine motor skills.

What is easier to get into action quickly, a lever action or a something with a detachable box magazine and/or that takes gross motor skills?

IMO, a semi auto pistol such as a Glock or similar is probably better in a stressful situation than a lever action. Hand to fist to load, rack the slide, pull trigger.
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 1:36:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/18/2007 1:37:53 PM EST by chrome1]
Not a bad choice . I kept a Marlin 1894-P 44mag as a bedside gun for
a few years . No worry about it's effectiveness if you get it on target , but
that's the thing . If you miss it means levering another round into the chamber
and at room distances that may very well be one second you don't have .

So when it comes right down to it . There is nothing faster to get into action
then a loaded DA pistol or revolver . Especially if you're doing it from a sleep .
So I suggest both
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 2:18:40 PM EST
My humble opion is that a .44 mag lever action will kill an intruder just as well as any other weapon at close range, but God help you if you have to reload at any point.
Link Posted: 6/18/2007 3:06:23 PM EST
I have been in situations where a lever action would have put me in a terrible disadvantage. Sure..........99% of the time a lever action would do great. Its that 1% that will get you. Use a lever action if it makes you happy. I just hope you don't come up against multiple threats like I did.
Link Posted: 6/19/2007 8:19:09 AM EST
Well, a rifle is good, i use a Mini 14 in the "rifle" scenarios, but nothing says "get the hell out of my house!" like a load of 00 buck runnig through the wall at 1320 feet per second
Link Posted: 6/19/2007 8:48:25 AM EST

Originally Posted By txgp17:

Originally Posted By Small_Arms_Collector:
Why in the world would you choose a weapon designed in 1894 as your home defense wapon?, technology has advanced quite a bit since then, and there are MUCH more effective weapons available, I'm not saying it can't do the job, but why?
That argument doesn't go far. Why in the world would one choose a weapon designed in 1911 as your home defense weapon? Because it's reliable, accurate, and deadly powerful.

why limit yourself to such a low magazine capacity?
A 1894 holds 10 rounds. That isn't a low number.



Originally Posted By muddydog:
this could be the most asinine post ever on ARFCOM..
agreed

a shotgun cannot do what a rifle can do.
proven fact.
Yeah, but a rifle cannot do what a shotgun can do either.
Inside 50 yards, there is nothing more lethal than a shotgun.


Why not use an old design? Just ask all the 1911 fans why they use a desgin that's 100 years old? The basic technology of a DA revolver and pump shotgun is just as old, and most people will acknowledge that they're pretty good choices for self-defense.
Link Posted: 6/19/2007 9:05:47 AM EST

Originally Posted By gkieser92:
Why not use an old design?
I was being sarcastic with the 1911 comment, it's an awesome design.
Link Posted: 6/19/2007 9:58:01 AM EST
Hi,

I have a Marlin .44 Magnum Cowboy under the bed- topped with the first generation of Meprolight's 21 Reflex sight. Weaver type mount, rather than Picatinny. Works fine, and is a "thumper" with Corbon's 300gr JSP. My only problem is "which" weapon to grab...

Carter, out...
Link Posted: 6/19/2007 11:18:25 AM EST
In my closet I have a Marlin .44mag Stainless Steel Rifle with a 16" barrel. It was a special edition that came with Truglow sights and the short barrel. It's simple, handy, doesn't take up a lot of closet space, and I'm comfortable leaving it unattended for months at a time. It has enough of a punch to catch your attention, enough rounds to last a while, and enough range to reach out to my outbuildings if needed.

I've shot AR's for over 20 years and think they are great weapons. When we suffered through a Hurricane in 2004 I pulled one out of the safe and kept it close by. Rumors were flying about generator stealing, looting, etc. But for day to day living I felt that my pistol and rifle combo would discourage an intruder well enough.

For bump in the night I grab my Glock. For serious "what is in the pasture or near the barn?", I grab the rifle from the closet. Tried the AR in the closet for a while, and it just didn't seem as handy. The Marlin doesn't have any protrusions to hang up on anything as I pull it out of the corner. I like having it behind the clothes. Thought about mounting a rack up over the closet door and giving the AR another try, but haven't gotten to it. Just built an SBR and may reconsider due to it's "handy" factor. I need to wring it out a bit more before I would trust it.

Link Posted: 6/19/2007 12:02:21 PM EST
[Last Edit: 6/19/2007 12:24:29 PM EST by Nameless_Hobo]
A .44 or .357 pistol will kill someone. I don't see why a .44 or .357 (.45 Colt for that matter) rifle won't kill someone. As far as reloading, I don't see you having hoards of robbers coming after you.
Ten shots ought to take care of anything, short of a room full of doped up thugs and if not, you'll have plenty of time to say your prayers.

I think the biggest thing is that people don't want to just take care of trouble, they want to do it and look cool. The good old double barrel shotgun or .44-40 winchester has taken care of problems for 150 years, they still do for some people. Something that would kill 150 years ago will kill just as much today.
Link Posted: 6/19/2007 3:09:01 PM EST

Originally Posted By rxdawg:
.44mag out of a rifle length barrel ain't a pistol round any more.


I am inclined to agree with the above. Takes deer no problem across the country.


Originally Posted By Talyn:
All we need is a decent rail system for the lasers & lights!


Ask the Brits, they make some rails for lever actions, since a lever action is about the closest they can get to a centerfire semi-auto.
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