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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/26/2006 1:43:55 PM EDT
Any manufacturers ready to step up to the plate and manufacture a few US-made parts for the Benelli M1014 / M4 shotgun? SinistralRifleman? I'm wanting to add a mag extension and working telestock, but don't want to violate 922(r). I know there are many here who claim that it is legal to add these parts to an imported shotgun without additional modifications, but I am not of that belief. I want to cover all the bases in order to be 100% legal.

I need to find out how many of the listed parts pertain to the Benelli M4:

(c) For purposes of this section, the imported parts are:

1. Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings, or stampings.
2. Barrels
3. Barrel extensions
4. mounting blocks (trunnions)
5. Muzzle attachments
6. Bolts
7. Bolt carriers
8. Operating rods
9. gas pistons
10. Trigger housings
11. triggers
12. Hammers
13. Sears
14. Disconnectors
15. Buttstocks
16. Pistol grips
17. Forearms, handguards
18. Magazine bodies
19. Followers
20. Floorplates

There can be no more than 10 imported parts on the shotgun to be 922(r) compliant. For example, if the Benelli M4 consists of 13 parts, then we need to swap in 3 US-made parts to be compliant. As far as I know, the only US-made part right now is a 2-shot mag extension. I figure that the firecontrols would be the easiest to manufacture, and it seems to be the most popular method preferred by the AK guys to reduce the imported parts count.

Maybe I'm dreaming.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 1:45:38 PM EDT
Probably cheaper to SBS it.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 1:55:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
Probably cheaper to SBS it.



SBS not legal in Indiana.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=30&t=227736
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 2:11:41 PM EDT
You're kidding me. Must be the "Illinois" seeping in.

Link Posted: 3/26/2006 2:17:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By dport:
You're kidding me. Must be the "Illinois" seeping in.




Tell me about it! I've got an M16 and four suppressed weapons back there in my gun safe, but the state doesn't trust me with an SBS.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 2:19:58 PM EDT
Can you federally SBS the shotgun, but leave the bbl at 18" and still comply with state laws?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 5:55:59 PM EDT
No. An SBS is an SBS, even if just on paper.

NFA Branch won't approve the transfer anyway if it's not legal in your state.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 6:04:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Madness:
Any manufacturers ready to step up to the plate and manufacture a few US-made parts for the Benelli M1014 / M4 shotgun? SinistralRifleman? I'm wanting to add a mag extension and working telestock, but don't want to violate 922(r). I know there are many here who claim that it is legal to add these parts to an imported shotgun without additional modifications, but I am not of that belief. I want to cover all the bases in order to be 100% legal.



Good luck.

No one is doing this, making US made Benelli parts, simply because no one believes it's illegal to add the mag extension to begin with. Sure, there are people on this board that believe so, but that is the decided minority. If it was a violation, it would have been enforced and you would have heard about it.

There are literally thousands of Benellis out there with pistol grips and mag extensions and NO ONE has ever been prosecuted for it. If these have been imported with pistol grips and mag enxtensions, as they obviously have, then 922r does not apply. If the gun you are creating by adding the mag extension or pistol grip or collapsible stock has been imported that way, then you cannot be creating an unimportable firearm by adding it. If that's not the practical proof you'd need, I don't know what is.

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:59:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
If it was a violation, it would have been enforced and you would have heard about it.



I've never heard of any 922(r) convictions at all -- that's including AK variants which I know for a fact are covered by 922(r). I'm sure that there are hundreds of AK's out there in violation, but feel that the BATF has better things to pursue. I just want to be 100% in compliance, as I have too much at stake.


If these have been imported with pistol grips and mag enxtensions, as they obviously have, then 922r does not apply. If the gun you are creating by adding the mag extension or pistol grip or collapsible stock has been imported that way, then you cannot be creating an unimportable firearm by adding it. If that's not the practical proof you'd need, I don't know what is.


Are any of the factory-imported full-feature Benelli M4 shotguns not marked LE? That's what I've been waiting on. When I see a non-LE Benelli M4 imported with all the "evil" features, then I'll assume that all is well.

I know you guys feel that this is kicking a dead horse, and you have my sincere apology. But I'm going to continue believing that these mods are illegal until someone else provides a BATF letter stating the contrary (even though they supposedly only bind the writer), or Benelli imports non-LE models.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:09:08 PM EDT
I would think that a lightened early style bolt that allows "ghost loading" would be a profitable item to manufacture. Magazine bodies and followers would be very simple and easy to do, and I would think that a choke would qualify as a "muzzle device". Maybe someone like Cav Arms or Magpul could do stocks in OD and CB to be tacticool as well as made in the USA.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:08:11 PM EDT
Best way to tackle this is to get a company to build "enhanced" aftermarket items for the Benelli. Smartest bet would be to go with items that carry between several of the different model lines.

I don't know which piece qualify though. Example, there are several aftermarket magazine followers. Muzzle attachments? An aftermarket choke would suffice? I know of several state side makers.

Several handguard/rail systems exist.

Getting an aftermarket receiver extension is also possible, from Surecycle?

The trigger group for the M4 is a very complicated item. I really doubt you'll see anyone spending close to a 100k to design, build and distribute a replacement. Even at a premium price point. Currently there simply are not enough M4's in civilian hands.

-Steve
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 6:26:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 6:27:49 AM EDT by 223semiauto]
I really doubt that people will really step up right now.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 8:23:47 AM EDT
If the parts were improvements over the original, then there would be something with all the Benellis out there. There are great mods available for the shell carrier (filling in the thumb notch), the bolt carrier (lightening the bolt carrier by 2-3 ounces for recoil reduction and for cycling lighter loads), etc. Get someone to make new parts with these types of mods and you'd be satisfying 922r incidentally, not primarily. But no one is going to make US Benelli parts just to satisfy 922r. People just don't see the need to replace parts for mag extensions. I don't.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 2:14:09 PM EDT
So we're looking at the following current US-made parts:

1. Railed handguard
2. Magazine Follower
3. Magazine Extension (body)

Depending on how many of the listed parts pertain to the Benelli M4 shotgun, we may be very close with what is already available.

Link Posted: 3/28/2006 3:29:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Madness:
So we're looking at the following current US-made parts:

1. Railed handguard
2. Magazine Follower
3. Magazine Extension (body)

Depending on how many of the listed parts pertain to the Benelli M4 shotgun, we may be very close with what is already available.



Don't hold me to this, but I seem to remember someone making replacement pistons for the M4, which would count as another part for your purposes. Harder than factory and coated with TiN or something. I'll try to track it down.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 5:00:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Don't hold me to this, but I seem to remember someone making replacement pistons for the M4, which would count as another part for your purposes. Harder than factory and coated with TiN or something. I'll try to track it down.



Thanks.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 2:04:02 PM EDT
Any more word on the gas pistons, Homeinvader?

Stevenb, where can I locate the US-made magazine followers?

Thanks.
Link Posted: 4/1/2006 5:56:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By M4Madness:
Any more word on the gas pistons, Homeinvader?

Stevenb, where can I locate the US-made magazine followers?

Thanks.



Still looking, sorry. Haven't forgotten about you.

Followers shouldn't be a problem, they're almost universal.
Link Posted: 4/2/2006 8:17:36 PM EDT
Sorry, I lost track of this thread.

Check this out. This might help you out a lot.
www.surecycle.com/default.asp

Scroll down to the middle. Looks like Sure Cycle is now making a magazine extension, follower upgrade and spring upgrade for the M4.

90 bucks isn't bad either.

-Steve
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:12:00 PM EDT
I'm sending the following letter to the BATF tomorrow:

Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives
Firearms Technology Branch
650 Massachusetts Avenue, NW
Washington, D.C. 20226

To Whom It May Concern:

According to earlier BATFE documents, a shotgun with a telescoping stock or a magazine greater than 5 rounds is prohibited from importation into the United States under the provisions of section 925(d)(3) of Title 18, United states code (U.S.C.). Assembly of such a shotgun from imported parts is prohibited under 18, U.S.C. Section 922(r). The implementing regulations in Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations, Part 478, Section 478.39 (formerly Part 178, Section 178.39) prohibit assembly of such a shotgun that contains more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph (c) of the regulation. Assembly of such a shotgun using 10 or less of the listed import parts is not prohibited.

(c) For purposes of this section, the imported parts are:

1. Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings, or stampings.
2. Barrels
3. Barrel extensions
4. mounting blocks (trunnions)
5. Muzzle attachments
6. Bolts
7. Bolt carriers
8. Operating rods
9. gas pistons
10. Trigger housings
11. triggers
12. Hammers
13. Sears
14. Disconnectors
15. Buttstocks
16. Pistol grips
17. Forearms, handguards
18. Magazine bodies
19. Followers
20. Floorplates

How many of the above-listed parts does a Benelli M1014 / M4 Super 90 shotgun consist of? Thank you very much for your cooperation in this matter. It is greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,
Link Posted: 4/11/2006 5:37:27 PM EDT
Hey, regarding the pistons, member Hotbarrel from the AK Files website makes custom AK pistons to your specs for a very reasonable price, from stainless. Perhaps you could look him up and send him your import one, he could turn one for you.
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:29:04 PM EDT
M4Madness,
Thanks for doing the leg work.

-Steve
Link Posted: 4/12/2006 3:37:53 PM EDT
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