Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 1/3/2002 2:28:12 PM EST
I can't tell, they almost look like suppressed M14, M21, M25 types.
I thought the Marines used the M40 bolt gun.


U.S. Marine Corps Sgt. Luke Lafaver waits for his spotter's report as scount/snipers zero their rifles at the newly dedicated Cpl. T.C. Chandler range at the Marine's base at Kandahar International Airport, Thursday, Jan. 3, 2002. The range was dedicated to Chandler after he was injured by a mine on the airfield. (AP Photo/Rob Curtis, Pool)
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 2:35:50 PM EST
looks kind of like the M40A3
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 2:46:27 PM EST
I agree, it dose look like a M40, I can't tell if it is A3, but it is definitely not a semi.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 3:30:06 PM EST
Those are modified Designated Marksman Rifles.

Here are some other photos of them in use.

Link Posted: 1/3/2002 3:54:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/3/2002 3:56:07 PM EST by 11BravoE5]
They are M25 DMRs(M14 type w/match barrels & McMillan M2A pistol grip stocks). The optics are PVS10 Day/Night scopes).
Bolt guns such as: M40A3/M40A1/M24/M86 are great for a target at 1000yds, but M25s are better for multiple targets at 300-600. While your buddies are firing M240s, your single precision shots will go un-noticed(except by the target!).
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 4:00:57 PM EST
The rifle in question is a modified M-14.
The rifle was developed for the D.M. program for shorter range use by F.A.S.T. CO.Marines,thanks to the issue of the M40A1 being a dedicated long range weapon,and the need for fast,accurate second shots in the role of active counter terrorism.
The suppressor used is of the "Wet" variety,which uses no wipers,and is quite effective,although small and light.
Accuracy is outstanding for the package.
The only drawback is the mess!!!!
The rifle uses a "Double lug" receiver that is added at 3rd echilon by 2112 match armourers to an existing M14 receiver.
Optics used are "Usually" the Vari-X III LR.M3 leupold.Others exist and are used.
The variable power allows a wider field of view during M.O.U.T. operations than the M40's Unertil fixed 10X.
It's a great system,but still lacking.
I got in on the ground floor of the DM program,and we had all sorts of issues,and nightmares with getting attention to our need for a specialized rifle system.
The D.M rifle will use the same ammo as the M-40 so it would seem logical for both the DM program AND for a spotters rifle.
But it is NOT!
Back in the day we found the 16A2 with either the Colt 4X(like looking through a straw!)or a privately purchased ACOG. was just as accurate out to 600m,weighed less,and had the option of protective full auto fire.
The M14 based D.M.rifle was limited by the amount of ammo(Weight)carried,and controll issues on rapid fire/Full auto(Don't get caught with your lever on the thing!).
From what I hear from buds still active,the M4 fitted with an ACOG is the spotter rifle of choice these days,and the D.M. rifle is on the way out with the realization of the accuracy potential illustrated by the Marine rifle team using heavy bullets in modified 16A2's.
The evolution will continue I hope.
The fact the "Cans" are on these rifles suggests some hunting might be underway at night in urban areas....
I wish them luck,lots of safe shooting,and a safe return.
Semper FI
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 4:33:59 PM EST
I know the M16A2 is accurate out to 600m, but I'm not sure it's got much sting at that range.

It's good to see some form of the beloved M14 in action today.

...I gotta go hug my M1A...
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 4:51:02 PM EST
What is a wet suppressor?
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 4:55:38 PM EST

Originally Posted By D348:
What is a wet suppressor?

it is a silencer/suppresor that uses a little bit of water inside it to make it more effective.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 4:56:53 PM EST

Originally Posted By S-28:
The suppressor used is of the "Wet" variety,which uses no wipers,and is quite effective,although small and light.
Accuracy is outstanding for the package.
The only drawback is the mess!!!!
Semper FI

How can you tell by looking?
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 5:00:01 PM EST
I gotta agree with the amount of "Thump" issue at 600m.
But there is more to it than just terminal carnage.
The Green tip stuff will go through an adult Donkey at that range(Don't ask how I know..it's embarrasing)so it's not a penetration issue.
The big issue is the Maint. of the modified M14 required to keep it shooting accurately.
The things require a 2112 to quarterly eyeball,re-bed,and deep clean the thing.
The scope mounts are subject to getting knocked askew,and then subsequent rezero while afield.
The 16A2 is what it is,and takes the daily abuse better than any previous issued rifle.
There is no bedding to keep fresh.
Don't hate me...I'm a die hard M14 fan.
For a real battle rifle,it is our last one,and the finest ever devised.
The modified M16A2 is just better suited to the mission of both F.A.S.T. D.M.'s and the role of spotters rifle,when Maint., logistics,and deployment are concerned.
If you ever get a chance,turn an M14 loose on full auto,then turn an A2 loose at the same range of 100m or less.
The 14 ROCKS!!!!!!!!
The M16A2 just quietly goes about it's efficient way and produces more hits.
I type this quietly so as to keep my Gunny Ontro tweaked M1A from hearing....I love her to death,but she is a snotty,fickle,and tempermental slut!
For every job there is a proper tool.
Semper Fi!

Link Posted: 1/3/2002 5:06:47 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/3/2002 5:09:10 PM EST by Derek45]
I've got a good friend who carrys a Dept. Issue FullAuto M14 in his Sherrif's Dept. squad car.
It's a REAL BLAST to shoot. Not as bad as I expected. I'm 6'4" 220 and if I really lean into it...

Thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 5:40:22 PM EST
Big guy,
I can tell by looking cuz the things we were tinkering with back in 89' were of the wiper variety and almost twice the size!!!!!
Back then a company called Cobray made a wet model that we fussed with,but I never saw one issued.
I also currently am employed in Nuclear security,and keep up on stuff a bit.
Since the first cans there have been many upgrades,and new tech accepted,thanks to SWAT cops and the need to raid Crack houses.
It's a volume thing with wiper supressors.
The baffles delay the release of the pressure and reduce the amount of shock to surrounding atmosphere.
Water works OK in a "Wet supressor",but high flash point grease works best.
The pressure blast displaces the grease and absorbs most of the energy of the muzzle blast,but the grease goes warm and runny,and gets all over the operator and rifle in short order.Nomex,and Kevlar hold grease like MAD!!!!!
The "Wet Supressor" also kills almost all muzzle flash signature,and has none of the first round "POP" of a wiper supressor which is a big bonus.
The M25 so equiped has a rather serious mission with lots of support required.
Pity the Taliban....
The worlds finest appear to be hunting them,and they have broken out the latest sporting goods!
Semper Fi!

Link Posted: 1/3/2002 5:48:25 PM EST
thanks for explaining it to me. It was not ment as a flame, I was just curious.
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 5:59:26 PM EST
Big guy,
No flame taken man!
As to the M14 auto issue....
I got my paws on a E-3 from a Navy armory once,and had a ball with it...couldn't hit things like I wanted,but GAWD did we have FUN!!!!!!
Heap big fire,and little smoke!
Being 5'10" and 180# it tossed me around a bit even when I DID lean into it.
Typical for a controlled burst,from the hunt,was 1st round center mass,second round upper right of slihouette,and 3rd or 4th?(Depending on how fast I got off the trigger)Mess deck,starship Enterprise!
Given a woodlot,or light construction as a penetratrable barrier...gimme the old battle axe!
There should be a charitable organization devoted to the development of muzzle brake technology,so folks like us could have it all!
Rage on man!
Link Posted: 1/3/2002 6:08:27 PM EST
I tweaked the pic a little with photoshop and here's what I got. Looks to me like modified M24/M14/M1A. They had/have a DMR that is built on an M14, this could be it. Either way it is silenced and has some jerry rigged cheek piece on the stock and a NVD. Still trying to figure out Photoshop 6.0.
Link Posted: 1/4/2002 6:19:25 PM EST
The suppresor is an OPS Inc. Which is a dry suppressor.
Link Posted: 1/5/2002 6:02:14 AM EST
If the problem with the M14 is maintanance (rebedding, scope alighnment) versus the M16 simplicity, but the 223 versus 308 lacks knockdown, why not (gasp) implement a .308 M16, such as, say, the AR10?

Is this a crazy idea?

Link Posted: 1/7/2002 10:50:00 AM EST
As I read through the volumes of talk, I wondered the same thing. Remember that the AR10 was doomed by the mil for the M16 way back. Still, with the issues presented here, a tricked out AR-10T seems as if it would be the cats-meow. Funny thing about mil procurement, every time they get a new project manager, they seem to start over. Flew AH-1's (Cobras) in the 70's 80's. When we got the Mod with 20mm, a big deal was made of it, USMC had it a long time. We (Army)paid some cost to Ma Bell to give us what or Fellow service already had. Bet it's a political thing and has nothing to do with what is already out there that will works. Some PM is trying to make a name for himself?
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 11:12:22 AM EST

If the problem with the M14 is maintanance (rebedding, scope alighnment) versus the M16 simplicity, but the 223 versus 308 lacks knockdown, why not (gasp) implement a .308 M16


That was done many years ago. It's called a FAL.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 11:40:43 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/7/2002 11:42:42 AM EST by ArmdLbrl]

Originally Posted By jimmybcool:
If the problem with the M14 is maintanance (rebedding, scope alighnment) versus the M16 simplicity, but the 223 versus 308 lacks knockdown, why not (gasp) implement a .308 M16, such as, say, the AR10?

Is this a crazy idea?


The US Navy has done so- the Mk11 Mod0 sniper rifle, a KAC SR-25 flattop with RIS and a suppressor.

No full auto switch, but it can accept a M203 thanks to the RIS.

pics are from www.isayeret.com. Thank Tukka for finding it and posting it first.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 11:55:28 AM EST
[Last Edit: 1/7/2002 11:59:30 AM EST by BlackandGreen]
It puzzles me to no end.....as to why the u.s. military does not have more ar10 and fal in use......maybe it`s availability/inventory......but one would think they would use everything available.....politics?..............they ARE using something...I hav`nt got a good enough look at on the film clips to be able to identify....sr25?....seen ranger and marine with it...but it`s not an ar profile?????
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 12:51:03 PM EST
I thought I read somewhere that the Navy was unhappy with the SR-25 because it had reliability issues.
Link Posted: 1/7/2002 12:58:34 PM EST
[Last Edit: 1/7/2002 1:07:36 PM EST by Tuukka]
ArmdLbrl, i posted the pictures first?

Can´t even remember that far, thanks though

That weapon system is near the top in the list of must have´s

Here´s a nice package too

Link Posted: 1/7/2002 1:59:56 PM EST

Originally Posted By Derek45:
I thought I read somewhere that the Navy was unhappy with the SR-25 because it had reliability issues.

Doubtful, except for the choice of barrel length and the RIS it is the same as the version KAC makes for Israel. If the IDF's conscripts can keep them running, the SEALs certainly wont have any problem with them.
Top Top