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Posted: 1/20/2011 4:31:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2011 4:32:07 AM EDT by awfroadan]
I had ordered a K-31 with matching bayonet and went to pick it up last night and they could not find it. They are still looking for it but I'm sure it's gone. I've never had this happen so is there any advice on what I should be doing to file proper paperwork with UPS, BATF or anybody else that might matter? Should I contact the BATF myself or wait till they (*edit* UPS) file a claim? UPS hasn't been very talkative to me as I'm sure they are desperately trying to find it, knowing it's a firearm, and wanting to cover their own asses. Thanks

-Scott
Link Posted: 1/20/2011 5:22:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By awfroadan:
I had ordered a K-31 with matching bayonet and went to pick it up last night and they could not find it. They are still looking for it but I'm sure it's gone. I've never had this happen so is there any advice on what I should be doing to file proper paperwork with UPS, BATF or anybody else that might matter? Should I contact the BATF myself or wait till they (*edit* UPS) file a claim? UPS hasn't been very talkative to me as I'm sure they are desperately trying to find it, knowing it's a firearm, and wanting to cover their own asses. Thanks

-Scott


Contact ATF, and tell UPS that you are doing so as required by Federal Law. I suspect UPS will find your rifle very quickly.
Link Posted: 1/20/2011 5:59:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MVolkJ:
Originally Posted By awfroadan:
I had ordered a K-31 with matching bayonet and went to pick it up last night and they could not find it. They are still looking for it but I'm sure it's gone. I've never had this happen so is there any advice on what I should be doing to file proper paperwork with UPS, BATF or anybody else that might matter? Should I contact the BATF myself or wait till they (*edit* UPS) file a claim? UPS hasn't been very talkative to me as I'm sure they are desperately trying to find it, knowing it's a firearm, and wanting to cover their own asses. Thanks

-Scott


Contact ATF, and tell UPS that you are doing so as required by Federal Law. I suspect UPS will find your rifle very quickly.


This tends to light some fires...
Link Posted: 1/20/2011 6:21:39 AM EDT
I called the Washington office and they transferred me to a number no longer in use in the Philly area. That message gave me the right number to call so I did and the person who answered couldn't help. They did send me to the voice mail of a field agent because she said they were all busy right now. No one seemed to care so far and no fires lit yet.
Link Posted: 1/20/2011 7:07:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2011 7:08:06 AM EDT by haLfLiFe]
Field agents always seem to be busy when you need them. I am sure if you left a message you will hear back from them shortly.

Sorry to hear about your rifle, I know if this happened to me I would be PO too.
Link Posted: 1/20/2011 10:37:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/20/2011 10:37:15 AM EDT by dcs12345]
Call whoever you bought it from as well. They can call UPS and put a "trace" on it.
Link Posted: 1/20/2011 11:40:26 AM EDT
Thanks for all the reply's. So far ATF, UPS corporate and the company I purchased it from have been contacted by me. Have not heard back from any yet. Thought about contacting the local police that have jurisdiction over the area that the UPS distribution center is located. Maybe if they roll into the UPS distribution center things might start happening.
Link Posted: 1/20/2011 6:56:03 PM EDT
I've had shit come up missing with them before, give it a day or 2, it will show up most likely.
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 11:16:09 AM EDT
Well I figured I'd give an update. ATF after multiple calls still hasn't gotten back to me and I get the feeling they never will. I have to call corporate UPS to get the local UPS to at least give me a courtesy call back. They told me that it's in there security people's hands and that they are working with the original shipper. The company I got it from hasn't heard from UPS as of this afternoon when I called them. Seems UPS don't care that it's me that's out of a rifle and my money.
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 3:07:28 PM EDT
Where does it say it is on the tracking website? Does it say it is at the distribution center or has been delivered? Maybe a call to the PA. Attorney General's Office is in order.
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 4:00:20 PM EDT
The tracking says as of 1/19/11: As requested by the customer, the receiver will pickup at a UPS facility within 5 business days. / Arrangements have been confirmed with customer. Then as of today, 1/21/11:Tracer request. / Lost package tracer.
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 5:23:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MVolkJ:
Originally Posted By awfroadan:
I had ordered a K-31 with matching bayonet and went to pick it up last night and they could not find it. They are still looking for it but I'm sure it's gone. I've never had this happen so is there any advice on what I should be doing to file proper paperwork with UPS, BATF or anybody else that might matter? Should I contact the BATF myself or wait till they (*edit* UPS) file a claim? UPS hasn't been very talkative to me as I'm sure they are desperately trying to find it, knowing it's a firearm, and wanting to cover their own asses. Thanks

-Scott


Contact ATF, and tell UPS that you are doing so as required by Federal Law. I suspect UPS will find your rifle very quickly.


+1 very quickly
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 5:57:39 PM EDT
I just had UPS "lose" 4 tires that were being shipped to me. They did the special trace and found them. Continue to ask for a manager if you don't get results from a tracer. Ask to talk to the security people, they have a vested interest.
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 8:18:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By awfroadan:
Well I figured I'd give an update. ATF after multiple calls still hasn't gotten back to me and I get the feeling they never will. I have to call corporate UPS to get the local UPS to at least give me a courtesy call back. They told me that it's in there security people's hands and that they are working with the original shipper. The company I got it from hasn't heard from UPS as of this afternoon when I called them. Seems UPS don't care that it's me that's out of a rifle and my money.


Call your local news station and tell them, maybe it'll go national. Down here in AZ, this would probably get some massive coverage, what with how many firearms are being "sold and smuggled" into Mexico . . . Either way, hopefully it turns up! I've been hit by the C&R bug pretty bad lately (living arrangements are too fluid for me to get an actual C&R, but that hasn't stopped me from picking a few qualifying firearms anyhow), and a K31 is on the list.
Link Posted: 1/21/2011 8:51:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZYoungGun:
Originally Posted By awfroadan:
Well I figured I'd give an update. ATF after multiple calls still hasn't gotten back to me and I get the feeling they never will. I have to call corporate UPS to get the local UPS to at least give me a courtesy call back. They told me that it's in there security people's hands and that they are working with the original shipper. The company I got it from hasn't heard from UPS as of this afternoon when I called them. Seems UPS don't care that it's me that's out of a rifle and my money.


Call your local news station and tell them, maybe it'll go national. Down here in AZ, this would probably get some massive coverage, what with how many firearms are being "sold and smuggled" into Mexico . . . Either way, hopefully it turns up! I've been hit by the C&R bug pretty bad lately (living arrangements are too fluid for me to get an actual C&R, but that hasn't stopped me from picking a few qualifying firearms anyhow), and a K31 is on the list.


Not a good idea. Thats all we need is more "ammo" for the anti's to use against guns.

Link Posted: 1/22/2011 5:11:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2011 5:12:27 AM EDT by M1G]
The shipper/seller should have had insurance on the package? Whats the big deal, yes it would be dissapointing but its not your problem. Have the seller /shipper send another rifle or refund your $$$$$$
Its not up to you to be calling the BATF and UPS, Its the shippers obligation
Link Posted: 1/22/2011 6:24:15 AM EDT
I understand being disappointed with not getting your rifle. That sucks. I am like a little kid waiting on my packages. It irritates the hell out of my wife.

That being said, you aren't going to "light any fires". Call the seller. Did you use a credit card? You might have to wait 10 days or 30 days or something before the seller will do a refund. MidwayUSA told me that they have a 10 day window for lost packages. I might need to review the particulars of the transfer rules, but my first instinct would be to treat it as a lost package like any other lost package.

I sure wouldn't call the local PD or the news (wasn't sure if that was a joke or not).

It sucks. I hope that you get a K31 soon.
Link Posted: 1/22/2011 8:10:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
Originally Posted By AZYoungGun:

Call your local news station and tell them, maybe it'll go national. Down here in AZ, this would probably get some massive coverage, what with how many firearms are being "sold and smuggled" into Mexico . . . Either way, hopefully it turns up! I've been hit by the C&R bug pretty bad lately (living arrangements are too fluid for me to get an actual C&R, but that hasn't stopped me from picking a few qualifying firearms anyhow), and a K31 is on the list.


Not a good idea. Thats all we need is more "ammo" for the anti's to use against guns.



That could be, but at the same time, the public would be given a chance to see just how "on top of things" the ATF and Feds "really" are (ie., an evil high powered rifle has been lost and the Fed could care less). Would depend quite highly on how they spun the story, though, so yes, it was said with a heavy dose of sarcasm.

Anyway, got an update yet?
Link Posted: 1/22/2011 9:50:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/22/2011 9:53:09 PM EDT by jonathon]
Just in case I'm missing something here, has this been listed in NCIC as stolen/missing? This is where you might contact the local police and have them take a report.. unless of course ATF has done this already, which by the way it sounds.. probably not. Either way, it won't hurt.
Link Posted: 1/22/2011 9:56:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZYoungGun:
Originally Posted By KB7DX:
Originally Posted By AZYoungGun:

Call your local news station and tell them, maybe it'll go national. Down here in AZ, this would probably get some massive coverage, what with how many firearms are being "sold and smuggled" into Mexico . . . Either way, hopefully it turns up! I've been hit by the C&R bug pretty bad lately (living arrangements are too fluid for me to get an actual C&R, but that hasn't stopped me from picking a few qualifying firearms anyhow), and a K31 is on the list.


Not a good idea. Thats all we need is more "ammo" for the anti's to use against guns.



That could be, but at the same time, the public would be given a chance to see just how "on top of things" the ATF and Feds "really" are (ie., an evil high powered rifle has been lost and the Fed could care less). Would depend quite highly on how they spun the story, though, so yes, it was said with a heavy dose of sarcasm.

Anyway, got an update yet?


The libs would make an issue about C&R's being delivered right to people's houses with a gun dealer.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 6:16:44 AM EDT
A friend of mine ordered a Yugo SKS from AIM several years ago. He never received it. It was tracked from AIM to the UPS facility in Illinois. It never was scanned out of that facility. Apparently, some UPS employee evidently decided a $139 rifle was worth risking loss of employment and a trip to prison. Rifle never was found, to my knowledge.

For their part, AIM made good on it and shipped my friend a replacement free of charge, even though it wasn't their fault. The package WAS scanned into the UPS IL facility - it just never was scanned out. I can't say enough good things about the folks at AIM. Their customer service goes above and beyond expectations.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 7:58:36 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Hetzer1:

For their part, AIM made good on it and shipped my friend a replacement free of charge, even though it wasn't their fault. The package WAS scanned into the UPS IL facility - it just never was scanned out. I can't say enough good things about the folks at AIM. Their customer service goes above and beyond expectations.


+1

Aim does a great job, been buying from them for many years w/o any major issues. Anything that did ever come up they exceeded my expectations on at all costs.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 8:20:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By haLfLiFe:
Originally Posted By Hetzer1:

For their part, AIM made good on it and shipped my friend a replacement free of charge, even though it wasn't their fault. The package WAS scanned into the UPS IL facility - it just never was scanned out. I can't say enough good things about the folks at AIM. Their customer service goes above and beyond expectations.


+1

Aim does a great job, been buying from them for many years w/o any major issues. Anything that did ever come up they exceeded my expectations on at all costs.


Not to steal any thunder away from AIM because they are great to deal with, but UPS would be refunding AIM the cost of the replacement rifle. I deal extensivly with UPS on small package fulfilment and by and large UPS will make things right with the merchant (as it is typically the merchant who makes it right with the customer) when things get damaged/ go missing on UPS'es watch.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 9:35:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wendelsnatch:
Originally Posted By haLfLiFe:
Originally Posted By Hetzer1:

For their part, AIM made good on it and shipped my friend a replacement free of charge, even though it wasn't their fault. The package WAS scanned into the UPS IL facility - it just never was scanned out. I can't say enough good things about the folks at AIM. Their customer service goes above and beyond expectations.


+1

Aim does a great job, been buying from them for many years w/o any major issues. Anything that did ever come up they exceeded my expectations on at all costs.


Not to steal any thunder away from AIM because they are great to deal with, but UPS would be refunding AIM the cost of the replacement rifle. I deal extensivly with UPS on small package fulfilment and by and large UPS will make things right with the merchant (as it is typically the merchant who makes it right with the customer) when things get damaged/ go missing on UPS'es watch.

Oh yeah, I know that, but what I guess I left unsaid was that AIM didn't mess around at all. They sent a replacement out the next week.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 11:41:02 AM EDT
So they sent a replacement to you before UPS had their claim all done? Did you have to cover the cost of it and get reimbursed? The company which I will remain unnamed right now is not going to do anything until UPS does the claims process, which I've been told will probably be another 2-3 weeks. This was the first time ordering from them and probably be the last as they don't seem to care that the package was lost. They told me if I wanted to be sure to get the same one I ordered that I would have to order and pay for another one.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 3:48:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By awfroadan:
So they sent a replacement to you before UPS had their claim all done? Did you have to cover the cost of it and get reimbursed? The company which I will remain unnamed right now is not going to do anything until UPS does the claims process, which I've been told will probably be another 2-3 weeks. This was the first time ordering from them and probably be the last as they don't seem to care that the package was lost. They told me if I wanted to be sure to get the same one I ordered that I would have to order and pay for another one.


Standard procedure for the company I work for (granted we do not deal with anything firearms related) generaly instruct the customer to wait a couple days to allow UPS to rectify the situation "in house". If the package turns out to be genuinly lost (destroyed, stolen, literally fell of the back of a truck, whatever) we would send out a replacement immediatly. The UPS claims process is lengthy requiring significant paperwork on the vendors side (atleast in our case) and we actually dont receive our refund until close to our financial month end close out coresponding to their billing to us (again this is just in our case and may vary depending on negotiated contract with UPS). We have on occasion sent out replacement orders only to have the original order "turn up" several days later because of a UPS screw up. Most customers are nice enough to send oneof the orders back (on our dime) but the occasional very upset customers will keep both orders. Granted, being firearms things might be different.
Link Posted: 1/24/2011 6:32:44 PM EDT
tagging for updates
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 6:46:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Wendelsnatch:
Standard procedure for the company I work for (granted we do not deal with anything firearms related) generaly instruct the customer to wait a couple days to allow UPS to rectify the situation "in house". If the package turns out to be genuinly lost (destroyed, stolen, literally fell of the back of a truck, whatever) we would send out a replacement immediatly. The UPS claims process is lengthy requiring significant paperwork on the vendors side (atleast in our case) and we actually dont receive our refund until close to our financial month end close out coresponding to their billing to us (again this is just in our case and may vary depending on negotiated contract with UPS). We have on occasion sent out replacement orders only to have the original order "turn up" several days later because of a UPS screw up. Most customers are nice enough to send oneof the orders back (on our dime) but the occasional very upset customers will keep both orders. Granted, being firearms things might be different.


Thank you for the insight. What boggles my mind is the merchant who sent this item is out nothing right now and UPS only deals with them. The merchant has my money and sent the product so why should they care that UPS lost it? I as the purchaser on the other hand am out my money and product yet they won't deal with me or at least keep me informed about the refund process. The merchant doesn't need the refund it's the purchaser. Is it me or is that ass backwards?
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 6:48:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By awfroadan:
Originally Posted By Wendelsnatch:
Standard procedure for the company I work for (granted we do not deal with anything firearms related) generaly instruct the customer to wait a couple days to allow UPS to rectify the situation "in house". If the package turns out to be genuinly lost (destroyed, stolen, literally fell of the back of a truck, whatever) we would send out a replacement immediatly. The UPS claims process is lengthy requiring significant paperwork on the vendors side (atleast in our case) and we actually dont receive our refund until close to our financial month end close out coresponding to their billing to us (again this is just in our case and may vary depending on negotiated contract with UPS). We have on occasion sent out replacement orders only to have the original order "turn up" several days later because of a UPS screw up. Most customers are nice enough to send oneof the orders back (on our dime) but the occasional very upset customers will keep both orders. Granted, being firearms things might be different.


Thank you for the insight. What boggles my mind is the merchant who sent this item is out nothing right now and UPS only deals with them. The merchant has my money and sent the product so why should they care that UPS lost it? I as the purchaser on the other hand am out my money and product yet they won't deal with me or at least keep me informed about the refund process. The merchant doesn't need the refund it's the purchaser. Is it me or is that ass backwards?


Even though you paid the shipping, the vendor is UPS' customer. UPS does not have a contract with you, they have a contract with the vendor. That's why UPS only deals with them.
Link Posted: 1/25/2011 7:11:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By awfroadan:
So they sent a replacement to you before UPS had their claim all done? Did you have to cover the cost of it and get reimbursed? The company which I will remain unnamed right now is not going to do anything until UPS does the claims process, which I've been told will probably be another 2-3 weeks. This was the first time ordering from them and probably be the last as they don't seem to care that the package was lost. They told me if I wanted to be sure to get the same one I ordered that I would have to order and pay for another one.
It wasn't to me; it was a buddy of mine (co-worker). Didn't cost him anything extra. Granted, this was like I said, 6 or 7 years ago.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:00:20 AM EDT
So there is still no word on if they found it or if they are going to issue a refund. UPS so far has been the worst company I have ever dealt with. Also at this point I think it's time to let you know that J&G sales does not have a customer service department that cares for it's customers and so far I would rank them second after UPS in worst to deal with. After numerous calls to J&G they won't even hold a similar rifle for me so once this is resolved there is still one available to ship me. All because UPS has not contacted them yet. Yet they refuse to call UPS or talk to their rep on my behalf. This was the first time doing business with them and the last. I just want my money back at this point so I can purchase a K-31 from another supplier. I wish AIM had these in stock.
Link Posted: 1/31/2011 10:56:55 AM EDT
That sucks.

I hope they get it sorted out for you soon, but it really doesn't seem like either company has any interest in resolving this quickly.

It's a damn shame neither will step up for the guy who's getting screwed here.
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