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Posted: 11/24/2014 1:41:03 AM EDT
When you submit a Form 4, 1, etc., you submit a copy of the entire trust if you are using one, right. And this is to include the Schedule A or list of property currently in the trust, right?

Let's say you have a trust with no property other than the initial body with which it was created (a dollar bill or some such).

If you dive right in and buy two NFA firearms, they each get a copy of the trust that goes with the form, right? Would the Schedule A be the initial "empty" one, would each include the firearm on that form plus the other one that you are filing for, only the firearm on that form, or what?

What if you buy one firearm and submit it, then buy a second NFA firearm while the first is waiting? What would go on the Schedule A then?
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 1:47:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2014 1:48:23 AM EDT by KILLERB6]
No one actually cares about the schedule and no one but you knows what right looks like: blank is fine.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 2:14:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/24/2014 2:15:38 AM EDT by GADeerHunter]
AFAIK, you can just copy the trust when it was first signed/notarized and use that for all future transfers. That's what I've done and have had no problems... The original Trust stays in my safe and I just print out the .pdf copy I have if I need to send in a form.

The NFA Branch isn't going to "cross-verify" your Schedule A with what they see in the the NFRTR. The important thing is that the items that firearms that have been approved are listed in the actual hardcopy of Trust.

Link Posted: 11/24/2014 10:08:14 AM EDT
I've sent in 20+ applications, both paper and eFile, and all had the original Schedule A showing "$200 cash" as the only entry. Updated copy stays at home. That process has yet to cause a single issue.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 10:30:03 AM EDT
Thanks for the answers, guys. Like a lot of the NFA process, apparently, I was making 'much ado about nothing'.
Link Posted: 11/24/2014 10:49:35 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
I've sent in 20+ applications, both paper and eFile, and all had the original Schedule A showing "$200 cash" as the only entry. Updated copy stays at home. That process has yet to cause a single issue.
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Concur.

The only reason to update Schedule A is to keep your own records straight should something happen to one or more of the trustees (i.e. it becomes time to distribute
Even then, it's a formality because S/N(s) can still be used by someone completely unfamiliar to determine which items in your gun safe are and are not NFA items.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 1:30:44 PM EDT
The only way to create a trust is to put something in it, either money or an item.
When i did my first Form 1, I didn't list anything on the assignment page, and Dana Pickles called me and let me know I had to list something, and as soon as I listed it and faxed it in, he would approve the Form 1. I used a $2 bill that I've had for over 20 years.

And I just use that one item each time when I submit, as you are not required to give them a running tally of what you own. And I have also put my title I stuff in the trust, and they don't need that info.,,

As for listing your registered items, I've read on here that some people don't bother putting their NFA stuff on the assignment or Schedule A, as the Form 1/4 clearly indicates the possessing entity.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 2:57:31 PM EDT
Should the efile be a copy of the notarized trust or just a pdf copy?
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 3:00:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FirstComm:
Should the efile be a copy of the notarized trust or just a pdf copy?
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PDF copy of the notarized trust.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 3:01:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:

PDF copy of the notarized trust.
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By FirstComm:
Should the efile be a copy of the notarized trust or just a pdf copy?

PDF copy of the notarized trust.



LOL>> Thanks.. Guess I have to find a scanner.
Link Posted: 11/25/2014 3:23:40 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By FirstComm:

LOL>> Thanks.. Guess I have to find a scanner.
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Originally Posted By FirstComm:
Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By FirstComm:
Should the efile be a copy of the notarized trust or just a pdf copy?

PDF copy of the notarized trust.

LOL>> Thanks.. Guess I have to find a scanner.

Couple other options. Some people upload the trust, then upload the notarized page separately. Some even just take a picture of the notarized page and paste it into a .doc file.

I have an app called Genius Scan on my iPhone that converts a pic into a PDF. Use it for receipts instead of a scanner sometimes for work.

My trust (all ~40 pages) has a spot for me to initial each page in the corner, so I just rescanned my entire trust.
Link Posted: 11/26/2014 2:40:04 AM EDT
When you go to a shop, do you take a copy, or do you take the original so they can see the notary stamp/emboss?
Link Posted: 11/26/2014 10:53:22 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By masfonos:
When you go to a shop, do you take a copy, or do you take the original so they can see the notary stamp/emboss?
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Take a copy. My original trust document stays in my safe deposit box...
Link Posted: 11/27/2014 3:03:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2014 3:06:09 AM EDT by jekbrown]
Originally Posted By masfonos:
When you submit a Form 4, 1, etc., you submit a copy of the entire trust if you are using one, right. And this is to include the Schedule A or list of property currently in the trust, right?
View Quote


correct.

Let's say you have a trust with no property other than the initial body with which it was created (a dollar bill or some such).

If you dive right in and buy two NFA firearms, they each get a copy of the trust that goes with the form, right?
View Quote


correct, in my case, my trust was originally funded with $10. That isn't mentioned in the Schedule A, it's noted in the section of the trust called "funding the trust" or some such. Your trust may vary. At any rate, I initially applied to make (F1) 3 SBRs at the same time before any other NFA items were owned by the trust.

Would the Schedule A be the initial "empty" one, would each include the firearm on that form plus the other one that you are filing for, only the firearm on that form, or what?
View Quote


As others have stated, it doesn't NEED to list them. That said, I followed the instructions of my trust lawyer and listed all 3 guns and in the "date approved" field, I put "pending", again, as suggested by my trust lawyer. All 3 were approved. A month ago, I did the same thing when I added a 4th Form 1 item..."pending"...and it was approved. This may not be required, but it is thorough, accurate, and clear. The ATF knows all this stuff anyway, not like you're protecting secrets by sending in blank schedule As.

What if you buy one firearm and submit it, then buy a second NFA firearm while the first is waiting? What would go on the Schedule A then?
View Quote


Everything NFA-related that the trust owns already (with an approved date) or has applied for ("pending") at the time you are submitting whatever new forms you're doing.
Link Posted: 11/28/2014 3:45:25 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By jekbrown:


correct.



correct, in my case, my trust was originally funded with $10. That isn't mentioned in the Schedule A, it's noted in the section of the trust called "funding the trust" or some such. Your trust may vary. At any rate, I initially applied to make (F1) 3 SBRs at the same time before any other NFA items were owned by the trust.



As others have stated, it doesn't NEED to list them. That said, I followed the instructions of my trust lawyer and listed all 3 guns and in the "date approved" field, I put "pending", again, as suggested by my trust lawyer. All 3 were approved. A month ago, I did the same thing when I added a 4th Form 1 item..."pending"...and it was approved. This may not be required, but it is thorough, accurate, and clear. The ATF knows all this stuff anyway, not like you're protecting secrets by sending in blank schedule As.



Everything NFA-related that the trust owns already (with an approved date) or has applied for ("pending") at the time you are submitting whatever new forms you're doing.
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Originally Posted By jekbrown:
Originally Posted By masfonos:
When you submit a Form 4, 1, etc., you submit a copy of the entire trust if you are using one, right. And this is to include the Schedule A or list of property currently in the trust, right?


correct.

Let's say you have a trust with no property other than the initial body with which it was created (a dollar bill or some such).

If you dive right in and buy two NFA firearms, they each get a copy of the trust that goes with the form, right?


correct, in my case, my trust was originally funded with $10. That isn't mentioned in the Schedule A, it's noted in the section of the trust called "funding the trust" or some such. Your trust may vary. At any rate, I initially applied to make (F1) 3 SBRs at the same time before any other NFA items were owned by the trust.

Would the Schedule A be the initial "empty" one, would each include the firearm on that form plus the other one that you are filing for, only the firearm on that form, or what?


As others have stated, it doesn't NEED to list them. That said, I followed the instructions of my trust lawyer and listed all 3 guns and in the "date approved" field, I put "pending", again, as suggested by my trust lawyer. All 3 were approved. A month ago, I did the same thing when I added a 4th Form 1 item..."pending"...and it was approved. This may not be required, but it is thorough, accurate, and clear. The ATF knows all this stuff anyway, not like you're protecting secrets by sending in blank schedule As.

What if you buy one firearm and submit it, then buy a second NFA firearm while the first is waiting? What would go on the Schedule A then?


Everything NFA-related that the trust owns already (with an approved date) or has applied for ("pending") at the time you are submitting whatever new forms you're doing.


As I stated earlier, the schedule A, letter of assignment, or which ever method your trust uses,you are NOT required to send an updated list of what is in the trust. You only need to send it with a single tangible item listed (a $2 bill with serno in my case, as I will never use it, and it is physicall in with my trust paperwork) possessed by the trust. In the case of Form 1s, some people will list the title 1 lower as it is the item the trust is requesting permission to manufacture
In the case of my trust, I have added title I firearms. The ATF doesn't need to know that. Nor do you need to send them a running list of NFA items the trust already possesses.

With the use of e-file being the bulk of Form 1 submissions now, if it was required to send all items in the trust, you would have to submit a new copy of the specific page every time you went to register a new item. But there is no requirement mentioned anywhere on the site. And it gives you the ability to store a PDF of your trust on the site. If they wanted you to submit a current, UTD assignment page they wouldn't keep any of it on their servers because it really does take a lot of space considering the number of people using e-file..
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