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Posted: 9/28/2010 8:23:49 AM EDT
[#1]
What is your load?
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Posted: 9/28/2010 9:10:24 AM EDT
[#2]
6.2 grains Universal. It's not overly hot.
ETA: data range is 6.0 to 6.7 based on the Lee manual. |
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Posted: 9/28/2010 9:31:06 AM EDT
[#3]
No. Such damage is surely not normal. Is the "chewed up" due to the extractor tearing out or gouging the case rim? Or is the damage being done away from the extractor engagement area? Pictures would help a lot to evaluate damage cause.
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Posted: 9/28/2010 12:38:45 PM EDT
[#4]
ETA Better Pic:
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Posted: 9/28/2010 1:42:38 PM EDT
[#5]
Sorry, those pics don't provide any information because they are so blurry.
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Posted: 9/28/2010 2:27:44 PM EDT
[#6]
I can't see well enough to know if the metal snag/spur is pulled or pushed away from the case rim. If it is pushed towards the case mouth, I suspect your extractor is bent too far in towards the primer & gouging the rim. If the snag/spur on the rim is pulled back away from the case mouth, I suspect the extractor lacks sufficient engagement in the rim & is causing the snag/spur. Does the rim damage occur with any factory loads? Does the slide recoil seem unusually harsh? Does the rim damage happen with mixed head stamps,
or all the same head stamp? Do the cases extract reliably, or jam in the ejection port? Do the snags appear uniform case to case? |
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Posted: 9/28/2010 3:15:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Is it more of a burr? Like the kind encountered when the ejection port comes forward and clips the rim upon ejection? It seems like this can be violent on the brass, especially from heavier sprung guns.
I've seen spent brass like this, but not from my pistols, so I'm not sure. Just a guess. |
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Posted: 9/28/2010 3:35:25 PM EDT
[#8]
Correct me if I misunderstand your last post. The damage does not seem to be due to the extractor! Can you see that the extractor engages the rim in a different place than
where the bur is? If so, that would suggest the extractor is not the cause of damage & perhaps a port contact mark. The ejector might well be leaving an imprint on the base of the case. If so you can determine by intersecting lines from the extractor mark & the extractor mark the position the case was in the chamber when each case was fired. If the bur is not in either of those two positions, it is caused by contact on some other part of the slide, most likely. Please let us know. |
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Posted: 9/28/2010 3:43:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: I can't see well enough to know if the metal snag/spur is pulled or pushed away from the case rim. If it is pushed towards the case mouth, I suspect your extractor is bent too far in towards the primer & gouging the rim. If the snag/spur on the rim is pulled back away from the case mouth, I suspect the extractor lacks sufficient engagement in the rim & is causing the snag/spur. Does the rim damage occur with any factory loads? Does the slide recoil seem unusually harsh? Does the rim damage happen with mixed head stamps, or all the same head stamp? Do the cases extract reliably, or jam in the ejection port? Do the snags appear uniform case to case? The spur is pulled back away from the case mouth. IIRC, these did eject just fine last time I shot them. I've found about a dozen of these from the brass I shot last several times out, and they are mixed headstamps, not just one (PMP, CBC, Winchester, WW, RP, etc). So I'm thinking it may be the gun rather than the brass? |
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Posted: 9/28/2010 4:03:33 PM EDT
[#10]
See above for new pic...
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Posted: 9/28/2010 6:04:41 PM EDT
[#11]
I've never seen damage like that Tbonfie.... first impulse before seeing picture was to suggests reducing the load. I see two marks in your brass that suggest it's extractor. Measure the case rims on torn brass. Measure how thick the case rims are, note what brand of brass it is. It's not happening on all your brass so my money says it's occurring on thick rimmed brass. I'm also willing to bet that some of your torn brass says Hornady on case head.
All speculation on my part. I have seen something similar to this with 1911 extractors and what I've summized is what we found to be the problem in some cases. |
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Posted: 9/28/2010 6:24:47 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: I've never seen damage like that Tbonfie.... first impulse before seeing picture was to suggests reducing the load. I see two marks in your brass that suggest it's extractor. Measure the case rims on torn brass. Measure how thick the case rims are, note what brand of brass it is. It's not happening on all your brass so my money says it's occurring on thick rimmed brass. I'm also willing to bet that some of your torn brass says Hornady on case head. All speculation on my part. I have seen something similar to this with 1911 extractors and what I've summized is what we found to be the problem in some cases. Actually, I have quite a bit of Hornady brass, but not one of them has the head torn like that. I'll take a caliper to the rims to see if there's anything there, but considering the varied brands, I'm betting they're all over the place. ETA: Measured Cases: Brand, Head Diameter, Rim Thickness Win .475 .044 Win .475 .041 Win .475 .045 PMP .475 .049 PMP .474 .045 PMP .476 .046 PMP .474 .045 PMP .475 .043 W-W .475 .045 CBC .472 .047 CBC .472 .045 RP .472 .046 RP .474 .044 HNDY* .472 .045 *New Case for comparison, not fired |
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Posted: 9/28/2010 6:35:56 PM EDT
[#13]
Federal self defense rounds use a thicker case rim......the point being tbonfie. This is randomly occuring. So something is changing that is allowing this to happen.Your looking for something out of the ordinary. If you know how to remove extractor from your Glock's slide it would be a good idea to clean the channel for build up or debris and clean.
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Posted: 9/28/2010 6:46:23 PM EDT
[#14]
I agree with you, 1911, I'm just not sure what to look for. I will definitely strip the gun down (including the extractor) this week and clean it up (I have a class on Saturday that it needs to be in top shape for).
That said, I ran 100 230gr. XTP's through it tonight with 6.3 grains of N340 and Winchester primers, (using the stock Glock barrel) just to be sure everything runs without a hitch before Saturday. I didn't have a single issue, everything fed, fired, and extracted just flawlessly. And looking over the cases (which I had inspected closely while loading them last night), not one of them has a torn rim. I usually only shoot lead, and all the torn cases were shot with lead when they got torn up, using the LWD barrel. Not sure why the lead or the barrel would have any impact. The only thing I can figure is something wrong with the extractor, or the lead loads are hotter than I think they are? (chrono time...) Hmmm... |
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Posted: 9/28/2010 7:09:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
I agree with you, 1911, I'm just not sure what to look for. I will definitely strip the gun down (including the extractor) this week and clean it up (I have a class on Saturday that it needs to be in top shape for). That said, I ran 100 230gr. XTP's through it tonight with 6.3 grains of N340 and Winchester primers, (using the stock Glock barrel) just to be sure everything runs without a hitch before Saturday. I didn't have a single issue, everything fed, fired, and extracted just flawlessly. And looking over the cases (which I had inspected closely while loading them last night), not one of them has a torn rim. I usually only shoot lead, and all the torn cases were shot with lead when they got torn up, using the LWD barrel. Not sure why the lead or the barrel would have any impact. The only thing I can figure is something wrong with the extractor, or the lead loads are hotter than I think they are? (chrono time...) Hmmm... You think ??? Only happened with lead ??? Missouri bullet lead ??? Loaded progressively ??? Have mentioned at least 3 variables that could lead to pressure spikes given the inconsistancy you see in MOBUCO...... 5.2 grains of Titegroup under a 200 grain lswc netted me 950+fps on a round before chronometering, I would have bet was flying no faster than 850fps. I'm guilty of getting a chrono way late in the game myself and its.... wait.... it did bite me in the ass one time with a hot 357sig round. Case head seperated resulting in my hand being numb for day or so........ if you look closely the mark in front of torn case rim looks as if extractor is being pushed by force into case. |
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Posted: 9/28/2010 8:16:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: I agree with you, 1911, I'm just not sure what to look for. I will definitely strip the gun down (including the extractor) this week and clean it up (I have a class on Saturday that it needs to be in top shape for). That said, I ran 100 230gr. XTP's through it tonight with 6.3 grains of N340 and Winchester primers, (using the stock Glock barrel) just to be sure everything runs without a hitch before Saturday. I didn't have a single issue, everything fed, fired, and extracted just flawlessly. And looking over the cases (which I had inspected closely while loading them last night), not one of them has a torn rim. I usually only shoot lead, and all the torn cases were shot with lead when they got torn up, using the LWD barrel. Not sure why the lead or the barrel would have any impact. The only thing I can figure is something wrong with the extractor, or the lead loads are hotter than I think they are? (chrono time...) Hmmm... You think ??? Only happened with lead ??? Missouri bullet lead ??? Loaded progressively ??? Have mentioned at least 3 variables that could lead to pressure spikes given the inconsistancy you see in MOBUCO...... 5.2 grains of Titegroup under a 200 grain lswc netted me 950+fps on a round before chronometering, I would have bet was flying no faster than 850fps. I'm guilty of getting a chrono way late in the game myself and its.... wait.... it did bite me in the ass one time with a hot 357sig round. Case head seperated resulting in my hand being numb for day or so........ if you look closely the mark in front of torn case rim looks as if extractor is being pushed by force into case. Well, I already have a chrono, but I admit I've never used it for my pistol rounds, just rifle. Guess it's time to shoot some pistol through the chrono and see where I'm at... I have a bunch of MOBUCO, but mostly I've been loading my own cast lead bullets for the last several months... And yes, I've also been loading progressively, but I check weight every 10 rounds or so, haven't seen the powder off by more than a tenth or two ever with Universal. I ended up at 6.2 grains because the lower loads weren't hot enough to extract the shells reliably. |
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Posted: 9/28/2010 8:42:38 PM EDT
[#17]
I sure got a surprise when reloads were checked through chrono......
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Posted: 10/30/2010 11:08:31 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Well, it took me a while to get around to chronographing my cast loads.... (been working on XTP loads since my last post).I sure got a surprise when reloads were checked through chrono...... Yikes! They are moving at over 1000 fps!!!  Time to dial the load back a bit. I guess that explains the beat up brass... On a good note, all my MOBUCO loads are just peachy in the 750-850 fps range. Also Chrono'd 380ACP lead MOBUCO bullets in my Ruger LCP. 2.0, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 and 2.4 grains of red-dot behind a 95 grain lead MOBUCO bullet. The highest load was in the 650fps range, I'll be notching that one up just slightly, they function just fine, so no need to push it. I still have most of 2K of these bullets to shoot before I start casting .380ACP... |
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