User Panel
Posted: 7/16/2010 2:43:20 PM EDT
What does ARFCOM think of keeping a suppressor mounted on a home defense gun (pistol or SBR rifle)?
I'm not so worried about it being confiscated if the event I ever actually have to use it for self defense (suppressor and host are costs are insignificant compared to risk of being shot/killed). |
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i am not sure where to go on this. I agree that it isn't a bad idea on the practical level (shooting indoors with no protection=pain), but aside from the confiscation, remember that you will need to justify this in court proceedings. VA may have castle doctrine (not 100%) but if you do engage a threat with it, remember that even if cleared criminally, you may have to deal with a civil trial....convincing a jury that you weren't "OMG ASSASSIN !!!!1111!!" may be difficult. Even if it is legal and practical, the stigma of it may not go over well with a jury in a civil case.
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I like 'not guilty' verdicts and going home to my family, so my HD guns are whatever you'd find at any gun store in America worth its FFL.
Kharn |
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I am 100% pro supressors. I have one on my HD rifle and my HD SBR. Don't have one on the nightstand gun (not that I am opposed to the idea) just that I lay my carry gun on the nightstand. If something goes bump, I'd grab the SBR or rifle.
Just my 2c though. |
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Might be hard to get that one through the heads of a jury of typical drones that assume things based on prejudices or lack of understanding.
Besides, If i have to fire at someone who is invading my home, I want it to loudly go boom, it seems more likely to scare the hell out of them and encourage them to desist. |
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On Form 4, block 15, where you list your reasons for possessing the silencer or NFA weapon, write: "Collecting, self defense, and all lawful purposes"
Then if worse comes to worst and you find yourself in court, your lawyer can show that according to the agency that regulates these devices, self-defense is a legitimate use of a silencer. |
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On Form 4, block 15, where you list your reasons for possessing the silencer or NFA weapon, write: "Collecting, self defense, and all lawful purposes" Then if worse comes to worst and you find yourself in court, your lawyer can show that according to the agency that regulates these devices, self-defense is a legitimate use of a silencer. Off to check what I put................... Damn... Mine all say "All Lawful Purposes".... Anyone remembe the member here who put "Zombies" on his form 4 and got approved? |
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I like 'not guilty' verdicts and going home to my family, so my HD guns are whatever you'd find at any gun store in America worth its FFL. Kharn Your state must be pretty messed up if what kind of weapon you use has any difference. In my state, there are only one consideration: Were you justified in using lethal force? |
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Let's remember your NFA toys must only be available to you. If you keep NFA items in a drawer or closet that your wife, kids, etc have access to you are in the wrong. One more thing to be brought against you in court that is if others live in your house. Use a "regular" gun for HD, it'll make court easier
OP, I believe you also asked before if it's okay to drink beer at dinner now that you can carry concealed in VA restaurants. I'll say it again here also, please don't ruin it for all of us. Don't carry if you must drink |
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There is no right or wrong answer to this question and it has been debated on these forums ad-nausem.
The pro suppressor or NFA for home defense people state: 1. Castle Doctrine Protects me 2. My State allows me to. 3. My F4 says it's for self defense 4. I want to keep my hearing 5. There is nothing illegal about it. The cons suppressor or NFA for home defense people argue. 1. Do you want to go in front of a grand jury (which is many states/locales you will even for a 100% clean shoot) and have the prosecutor wave an assassin tool in front of the grand jury. 2. You may go to criminal court and win but will be financially ruined afterwards, regardless of the outcome. (See what happen to Gary Fadden is a common example) http://www.davehayes.org/2006/02/10/the-gary-fadden-incident 3. Even if you win in criminal count yo will lose in civil and be financially ruined. 4. There is no tactical advantage to using a suppressor or NFA firearm over a good old Mossy 500. 5. NFA firearms should be secured as you will do damage to our hobby if you leave suppressors and SBRs unlocked by your nightstand, they get stolen and used in a crime. Headlines of "Assassin Silencer stolen from local man and used to kill grandma at an ATM" My personal take is that everyone's situation is different and you need to take into account the following. 1. where you live 2. what the prosecutor is like 3. what is your jury pool going to look like 4. what is the average cost of a criminal murder or manslaughter trial and can you afford it cause if you are relying upon the free defense attourney you might as well plead out. 5. What is the odds of a civil trial over a shoot in your area, what is the average time the shootees family wins, and what is the average wrongful death award and can you afford it. Me personally, I live in Travis County Texas, home of Austin Texas that has one of the most liberal jury pools in Texas and formerly aggressive prosecutor (Ronnie Earl). Beyond the fact that I personally think that NFA firearms should be properly stored due to the potential political fallout of them getting into the wrong hands, I have absolutely no desire to go in front of a Austin based grand jury after shooting somebody (in my house or not) and have a pistol with a silencer on display. That my choice, but I would suggest before you make yours that you understand how your personal situation may effect you should you find yourself in a shoot with an NFA firearm (especially a Machinegun or Suppressor). James Austin, Texas |
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as long as you are involved in a clean shoot the weapon you use to defend your life shouldn't matter .. unfortunately this is not always the case.
I don't have a link to the case in particular but I remember an HK rep back in the 80's who lawfully defended himself with an AC556 and he went to full trial .. he beat the charges but at great cost. the prosecutor wouldn't have even thought about filing charges if he had used a pump shotty. my only advice to the OP is the same my CCW instructor gave at the class when I got certified .. "do whatever you feel comfortable sleeping with at night, be it in your own bed or one provided to you" |
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The cons suppressor or NFA for home defense people argue. 1. Do you want to go in front of a grand jury (which is many states/locales you will even for a 100% clean shoot) and have the prosecutor wave an assassin tool in front of the grand jury. 2. You may go to criminal court and win but will be financially ruined afterwards, regardless of the outcome. (See what happen to Gary Fadden is a common example) http://www.davehayes.org/2006/02/10/the-gary-fadden-incident 3. Even if you win in criminal count yo will lose in civil and be financially ruined. 4. There is no tactical advantage to using a suppressor or NFA firearm over a good old Mossy 500. 5. NFA firearms should be secured as you will do damage to our hobby if you leave suppressors and SBRs unlocked by your nightstand, they get stolen and used in a crime. Headlines of "Assassin Silencer stolen from local man and used to kill grandma at an ATM" James Austin, Texas Totally agree w/ you. The original poster needs to gain a better understanding of laws in general. NFA stuff must be locked away thus no use as HD. Does the OP even own NFA items???? |
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The cons suppressor or NFA for home defense people argue. 1. Do you want to go in front of a grand jury (which is many states/locales you will even for a 100% clean shoot) and have the prosecutor wave an assassin tool in front of the grand jury. 2. You may go to criminal court and win but will be financially ruined afterwards, regardless of the outcome. (See what happen to Gary Fadden is a common example) http://www.davehayes.org/2006/02/10/the-gary-fadden-incident 3. Even if you win in criminal count yo will lose in civil and be financially ruined. 4. There is no tactical advantage to using a suppressor or NFA firearm over a good old Mossy 500. 5. NFA firearms should be secured as you will do damage to our hobby if you leave suppressors and SBRs unlocked by your nightstand, they get stolen and used in a crime. Headlines of "Assassin Silencer stolen from local man and used to kill grandma at an ATM" You've obviously put a lot of thought into this, and I do agree it's up to everyone to weigh the pros and cons and make their own decision. I will nitpick a couple of the cons "people argue": 4. There is no tactical advantage to using a suppressor or NFA firearm over a good old Mossy 500. I won't get into the argument of shotgun vs. AR vs. pistol for home defense other than to say there are many proponents of each. I personally like an AR for home defense after having weighed the pros and cons for myself. IF the choice IS an AR or pistol, then I believe there actually ARE tactical advantages to using a suppressor. Supressors reduce noise and flash, allowing me to retain my hearing and night vision after firing a shot, and reducing the bad guys' ability to target me. This may not be a major consideration for you, but that doesn't mean it isn't so. 5. NFA firearms should be secured as you will do damage to our hobby if you leave suppressors and SBRs unlocked by your nightstand, they get stolen and used in a crime. Headlines of "Assassin Silencer stolen from local man and used to kill grandma at an ATM" The best way for me to keep my NFA items out of the hands of criminals is to survive the invasion of my home. Otherwise whatever I may have locked away in my safe is in the hands of the criminals. Quoted:
Totally agree w/ you. The original poster needs to gain a better understanding of laws in general. NFA stuff must be locked away thus no use as HD. Does the OP even own NFA items???? There is no requirement that "NFA stuff" must be "locked away". |
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Let's remember your NFA toys must only be available to you. If you keep NFA items in a drawer or closet that your wife, kids, etc have access to you are in the wrong. One more thing to be brought against you in court that is if others live in your house. Use a "regular" gun for HD, it'll make court easier OP, I believe you also asked before if it's okay to drink beer at dinner now that you can carry concealed in VA restaurants. I'll say it again here also, please don't ruin it for all of us. Don't carry if you must drink Your first sentence is factually incorrect. While off topic, you are also mistating the point of my post about VA's new law that allows carry in places that serve alcohol. That question still hasn't been answered. If open carry of firearms is permissible while drinking and concealed carry is permissible while not drinking, it is legal to conceal into a place of business, order a drink, expose your pistol, drink and then when done drinking conceal the firearm again. |
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The cons suppressor or NFA for home defense people argue. 1. Do you want to go in front of a grand jury (which is many states/locales you will even for a 100% clean shoot) and have the prosecutor wave an assassin tool in front of the grand jury. 2. You may go to criminal court and win but will be financially ruined afterwards, regardless of the outcome. (See what happen to Gary Fadden is a common example) http://www.davehayes.org/2006/02/10/the-gary-fadden-incident 3. Even if you win in criminal count yo will lose in civil and be financially ruined. 4. There is no tactical advantage to using a suppressor or NFA firearm over a good old Mossy 500. 5. NFA firearms should be secured as you will do damage to our hobby if you leave suppressors and SBRs unlocked by your nightstand, they get stolen and used in a crime. Headlines of "Assassin Silencer stolen from local man and used to kill grandma at an ATM" James Austin, Texas Totally agree w/ you. The original poster needs to gain a better understanding of laws in general. NFA stuff must be locked away thus no use as HD. Does the OP even own NFA items???? Yes I do. |
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my HD is my 16" ar15. WITH suppressor.
my suppressor is in a trust and my wife is a trustee. she is perfectly legal in possesion. |
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Let's remember your NFA toys must only be available to you. If you keep NFA items in a drawer or closet that your wife, kids, etc have access to you are in the wrong. One more thing to be brought against you in court that is if others live in your house. Use a "regular" gun for HD, it'll make court easier Quoted:
Totally agree w/ you. The original poster needs to gain a better understanding of laws in general. NFA stuff must be locked away thus no use as HD. Does the OP even own NFA items???? Please show me where it states NFA must be locked away. Please show me where there it states the NFA "stuff" can not be used for HD. Until then, I am going to state that you are categorally wrong on all counts. If you prove me wrong I will offer a public apology |
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the only thing i have have found in the nfa laws regarding storage of nfa items pertains to importers and dealers, not privately owned weapons. while t is certainly a good idea, i haven't seen a legal requirement to keep them locked in a safe at all times.
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4. There is no tactical advantage to using a suppressor or NFA firearm over a good old Mossy 500. 5. NFA firearms should be secured as you will do damage to our hobby if you leave suppressors and SBRs unlocked by your nightstand, they get stolen and used in a crime. Headlines of "Assassin Silencer stolen from local man and used to kill grandma at an ATM" 4... yes there is. preservation of hearing for all of those in the area and reduction of muzzle flash. fire an ar15 in doors without hearing protection and see how well you can hear. 5.. i didn't buy my suppressor to be used for a hobby. i bought it to used to protect my family in the event my rifle is fired indoors, or in the event hearing protection is not used. While i am all for preservation of the sport, that takes a back seat to the preservation of my family. i won't even get into the whole no advantage over a shotgun statement |
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What does ARFCOM think of keeping a suppressor mounted on a home defense gun (pistol or SBR rifle)? I'm not so worried about it being confiscated if the event I ever actually have to use it for self defense (suppressor and host are costs are insignificant compared to risk of being shot/killed). If it happened to be sitting there, sure. Do I keep one ready HELL NO. I'd sooner grab my wifes CZ82 and make a shit load of noise. |
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The best way for me to keep my NFA items out of the hands of criminals is to survive the invasion of my home. Otherwise whatever I may have locked away in my safe is in the hands of the criminals.
Certainly can't argue with you there as remaining alive (regardless of motives to protect property or not) is certainly at the top of everybody's list. I also can't submit to know what your personal situation is, how your house is laid out, or what your home invasion strategy is, etc. as everybody has different physical layouts, children in other parts of the house that would require movement through the property, different risk/reward motivations for protecting personal property, etc. The wife and my strategy does not require any NFA firearms to tilt the odds in our favor in any meaningful way in my personal estimation. As a result I primarily fall back to my personal decision that firearms in general (and especially NFA firearms) should be properly stored whenever possible. After watching my father go through the turmoil of having his entire firearm collection stolen when it was briefly unsecured during a divorce and havng his personal guns turning up for years as evidence in a murder, a couple gas station holdups, multiple recovered in drug house raids, etc. That's something I never want to experience where you are praying for the day the last one is recovered so that you can stop worrying about getting another phone call from the evidence room of some random police department that they recovered a gun of yours used in some type of crime. Way far behind my secure storage beliefs is the concern for the potential for courtroom or financial problems down the road. Trust me I have thought about buying a Benelli SBS to replace the Remington in the closet I have now but just cant really justify it given my situation and after weighing the pros and cons. When people say they are going to leave a suppressed M4 by their bedside, what would concern me from a secure storage perspective is most people are not dedicated enough to lock up their NFA weapons in their safe/vault 100% of the time they leave their house (since the vast majority of firearms in general are stolen when the owners are not home vs. the odds of getting killed during a home invasion and then being stripped of the property). Granted, some small percentage of the population will always be dedicated enough to always lock up their NFA firearms in a safe when they leave the house and/or have their secure storage easily accessible to remind them to do so, such as having their main safe in their master bedroom. Personally, when my collection was much smaller years ago and I was single I had my safe in my master bedroom and rotating guns in and out took 30 seconds, but logistics of my life are now that it's not really feasible or the best option to have my primary storage in my bedroom or living room. Unfortunately, most people are human, with busy lives and that make mistakes and forgotful at times. They then end up leaving the NFA firearm unsecured to quickly run an errand or because they were running late for work, and some smash and grab burglar takes the gun in under 5 minutes while they are gone. Some people also don't feel they have any personal responsibilty to secure firearms of this type as there is no "legal" requirement for them to do so and leave suppressed rifles or even machineguns in their car unattended on a regular basis as a "truck gun" (which seems incredibly stupid to me). While it would suck for them to lose their personal property, they would have no problems sleeping at night knowing their suppressed handgun or M4 is in the hands of a criminal since they didnt make somebody steal it and they didnt break any laws leaving it unsecured. If you have a need for an NFA firearm given your situation to further change the odds of a home invasion into your favor, you can always secure storage it when you leave, and live in an area where you have no worries about malicious prosecution and/or have deep enough pockets to defend a potential civil lawsuits than more power to you and go ahead and keep whatever you need by your beside to feel safe. That profile above doesnt fit me personally and it's my take the vast majority of people who ask this type of question on this board never really understand the full implications of their decision as it just seems cool or fun to have their new NFA firearm sitting on the nightstand because they can. |
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Please show me where it states NFA must be locked away. Please show me where there it states the NFA "stuff" can not be used for HD. Until then, I am going to state that you are categorally wrong on all counts. If you prove me wrong I will offer a public apology the only thing i have have found in the nfa laws regarding storage of nfa items pertains to importers and dealers, not privately owned weapons. while t is certainly a good idea, i haven't seen a legal requirement to keep them locked in a safe at all times.
You are both correct that there is no federal law (cant say about all state law) that requires you to lock up your NFA firearms or that they can't be used for home defense. The only requirement is that you cannot transfer or give possession to somebody who is not the registrant of records. NFA firearms owned by an individual can only be possessed by that individual and guns owned by legal entities can only be possessed by the trustee or owners or corporate officers of thoes legal entities. What constitutes "possession" or "transfer" is a gray area as there is really no 100% legal defintion. Can you lend your NFA firearm to a friend, well no. Can you have it in your house under the bed when you are not home but your wife is (assuming personal ownership) well probably. Can you store in at a friends house if you are out of town as long as it is locked in a case or safe, according to the ATF the answer is yes. Can you leave it with your parents while you are out of town in a zippered case, no. While I am not a laywer, the reality is that if you are storing an NFA firearm at your home under the bed or in a closet not locked up some way you are probably not going to be prosecuted for your wife technically having access or having your buddy on the couch watching the game while you run down to the store to get more beer and chips. James |
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Your state must be pretty messed up if what kind of weapon you use has any difference. In my state, there are only one consideration: Were you justified in using lethal force? This... There is a really simple solution to this... Take it off before the cops show up. Not rocket surgery here. If it is a good shoot, I really don't think it will matter anymore than it will if you use a .22lr a 10ga. or hammer. I think a suppressed rifle makes alot of sense for HD. It will save your vision and not stunn you with the blast. I don't understand the comment about wanting it to be loud to scare the intruder. If you shoot, you shoot to KILL not to scare. If you only need to scare, you have no reason to shoot. Jeremy |
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The best way for me to keep my NFA items out of the hands of criminals is to survive the invasion of my home. Otherwise whatever I may have locked away in my safe is in the hands of the criminals.
Certainly can't argue with you there as remaining alive (regardless of motives to protect property or not) is certainly at the top of everybody's list. I also can't submit to know what your personal situation is, how your house is laid out, or what your home invasion strategy is, etc. as everybody has different physical layouts, children in other parts of the house that would require movement through the property, different risk/reward motivations for protecting personal property, etc. The wife and my strategy does not require any NFA firearms to tilt the odds in our favor in any meaningful way in my personal estimation. As a result I primarily fall back to my personal decision that firearms in general (and especially NFA firearms) should be properly stored whenever possible. After watching my father go through the turmoil of having his entire firearm collection stolen when it was briefly unsecured during a divorce and havng his personal guns turning up for years as evidence in a murder, a couple gas station holdups, multiple recovered in drug house raids, etc. That's something I never want to experience where you are praying for the day the last one is recovered so that you can stop worrying about getting another phone call from the evidence room of some random police department that they recovered a gun of yours used in some type of crime. Way far behind my secure storage beliefs is the concern for the potential for courtroom or financial problems down the road. Trust me I have thought about buying a Benelli SBS to replace the Remington in the closet I have now but just cant really justify it given my situation and after weighing the pros and cons. When people say they are going to leave a suppressed M4 by their bedside, what would concern me from a secure storage perspective is most people are not dedicated enough to lock up their NFA weapons in their safe/vault 100% of the time they leave their house (since the vast majority of firearms in general are stolen when the owners are not home vs. the odds of getting killed during a home invasion and then being stripped of the property). Granted, some small percentage of the population will always be dedicated enough to always lock up their NFA firearms in a safe when they leave the house and/or have their secure storage easily accessible to remind them to do so, such as having their main safe in their master bedroom. Personally, when my collection was much smaller years ago and I was single I had my safe in my master bedroom and rotating guns in and out took 30 seconds, but logistics of my life are now that it's not really feasible or the best option to have my primary storage in my bedroom or living room. Unfortunately, most people are human, with busy lives and that make mistakes and forgotful at times. They then end up leaving the NFA firearm unsecured to quickly run an errand or because they were running late for work, and some smash and grab burglar takes the gun in under 5 minutes while they are gone. Some people also don't feel they have any personal responsibilty to secure firearms of this type as there is no "legal" requirement for them to do so and leave suppressed rifles or even machineguns in their car unattended on a regular basis as a "truck gun" (which seems incredibly stupid to me). While it would suck for them to lose their personal property, they would have no problems sleeping at night knowing their suppressed handgun or M4 is in the hands of a criminal since they didnt make somebody steal it and they didnt break any laws leaving it unsecured. If you have a need for an NFA firearm given your situation to further change the odds of a home invasion into your favor, you can always secure storage it when you leave, and live in an area where you have no worries about malicious prosecution and/or have deep enough pockets to defend a potential civil lawsuits tyonehan more power to you and go ahead and keep whatever you need by your beside to feel safe. That profile above doesnt fit me personally and it's my take the vast majority of people who ask this type of question on this board never really understand the full implications of their decision as it just seems cool or fun to have their new NFA firearm sitting on the nightstand because they can. I won't argue with anyone about their personal choice with regard to what type, caliber, accessories, etc. that anyone chooses to defend their life with. I don't think it's any different if a theif steals a single shot .410 or an assault rifle - they are still a theif. I don't fault the homeowner if someone breaks in and steals a firearms any more than I blame a woman for being raped because she has a vagina and doesn't wear a chastity belt. I support the keeping of firearms in a safe if you want to keep them away from people who are unauthorized to handle them but I don't it's irresponsible not to own a safe for fear that some criminal may break in and steal them. |
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If you have a need for an NFA firearm given your situation to further change the odds of a home invasion into your favor, you can always secure storage it when you leave, and live in an area where you have no worries about malicious prosecution and/or have deep enough pockets to defend a potential civil lawsuits than more power to you and go ahead and keep whatever you need by your beside to feel safe. That profile above doesnt fit me personally and it's my take the vast majority of people who ask this type of question on this board never really understand the full implications of their decision as it just seems cool or fun to have their new NFA firearm sitting on the nightstand because they can. I came to a similar conclusion for my situation, and my NFA items do stay locked in a safe. But I can't deny there are good reasons to want to use them for home defense, and if not for the current political and social climate pushing me to fear government almost as much as criminals (assuming there is a distinction) I might choose to do so. |
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<––- See state.
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Your state must be pretty messed up if what kind of weapon you use has any difference.
I like 'not guilty' verdicts and going home to my family, so my HD guns are whatever you'd find at any gun store in America worth its FFL. Kharn In my state, there are only one consideration: Were you justified in using lethal force? Kharn |
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There is a really simple solution to this... Take it off before the cops show up. Not rocket surgery here. Jeremy The only reason I would caution against this is because it raises questions. Police look for inconsistencies, and once they find one lie, they start wondering to themselves what else you are lying about, and they start looking a lot harder at you. Honesty (with a lawyer sitting next to you) is the best policy. |
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There is a really simple solution to this... Take it off before the cops show up. Not rocket surgery here. Jeremy The only reason I would caution against this is because it raises questions. Police look for inconsistencies, and once they find one lie, they start wondering to themselves what else you are lying about, and they start looking a lot harder at you. Honesty (with a lawyer sitting next to you) is the best policy. I agree 100%. But taking off a suppressor would be like taking off the dotsight or sling. It doesn't change anything. Telling them you used a different gun would be a whole different story. That would be wrong in my opinion. I still think this is a non issue. Jeremy |
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I don't have a link to the case in particular but I remember an HK rep back in the 80's who lawfully defended himself with an AC556 and he went to full trial .. he beat the charges but at great cost. the prosecutor wouldn't have even thought about filing charges if he had used a pump shotty. That was not a home defense scenario, and IIRC, much of the prosecutor's case had to do with the opportunities he claimed the defendant had to get away from his assailant, and that he had provoked the assailant somehow in a road-rage type encounter. |
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Let's remember your NFA toys must only be available to you. If you keep NFA items in a drawer or closet that your wife, kids, etc have access to you are in the wrong. One more thing to be brought against you in court that is if others live in your house. Use a "regular" gun for HD, it'll make court easier Quoted:
Totally agree w/ you. The original poster needs to gain a better understanding of laws in general. NFA stuff must be locked away thus no use as HD. Does the OP even own NFA items???? Please show me where it states NFA must be locked away. Please show me where there it states the NFA "stuff" can not be used for HD. Until then, I am going to state that you are categorally wrong on all counts. If you prove me wrong I will offer a public apology NFA items should not be accessible to others plain and simple, I should not have said "locked away", that is my personal preference though. If your NFA stuff is in a location accessible by others then you are not in compliance. It's your @$$ not mine, do as you please but you are walking a fine line IMO. The chance you will ever need to fire at an intruder in your home are slim to none most likely, so don't worry about your ears. It's one less thing for the anti's to bitch about. And for the OP, drinking will open carrying is just feeding the anti's also. I think everyone made that very clear to you in the HTF. |
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Let's remember your NFA toys must only be available to you. If you keep NFA items in a drawer or closet that your wife, kids, etc have access to you are in the wrong. One more thing to be brought against you in court that is if others live in your house. Use a "regular" gun for HD, it'll make court easier Quoted:
Totally agree w/ you. The original poster needs to gain a better understanding of laws in general. NFA stuff must be locked away thus no use as HD. Does the OP even own NFA items???? Please show me where it states NFA must be locked away. Please show me where there it states the NFA "stuff" can not be used for HD. Until then, I am going to state that you are categorally wrong on all counts. If you prove me wrong I will offer a public apology NFA items should not be accessible to others plain and simple, I should not have said "locked away", that is my personal preference though. If your NFA stuff is in a location accessible by others then you are not in compliance. It's your @$$ not mine, do as you please but you are walking a fine line IMO. The chance you will ever need to fire at an intruder in your home are slim to none most likely, so don't worry about your ears. It's one less thing for the anti's to bitch about. And for the OP, drinking will open carrying is just feeding the anti's also. I think everyone made that very clear to you in the HTF. Are your NFA items tied to you as an individual or to a trust? And your point about drinking while carrying... What are you doing to overturn the law that allows LE and State Attorneys to drink while carrying concealed? |
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Absolutely YES!
The tactical advantages are obvious. And I do not believe a Grand Jury could be talked into anything but a finding of 'self-defense' if I used one in MY HOME. Now, if I used one in defense out on the street? Much dicier. |
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There is NO tactical advantage in having a suppressor on a home defense gun, If my life is being threatened, I'm NOT worried about my damn hearing.
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Quoted: There is NO tactical advantage in having a suppressor on a home defense gun, If my life is being threatened, I'm NOT worried about my damn hearing. So, when your first shot misses, and you can't hear the bad guy bumping against something in the dark because your ears are ringing... |
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There is NO tactical advantage in having a suppressor on a home defense gun, If my life is being threatened, I'm NOT worried about my damn hearing. the object is to survive w/o sustaining any GHB. Permanant sever hearing damage, from shooting a rifle indoors, esppecially a SBR, is brutal. You may luck out w/ mechanical auditory exclusion but you never know. |
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Let's remember your NFA toys must only be available to you. If you keep NFA items in a drawer or closet that your wife, kids, etc have access to you are in the wrong. One more thing to be brought against you in court that is if others live in your house. Use a "regular" gun for HD, it'll make court easier Quoted:
Totally agree w/ you. The original poster needs to gain a better understanding of laws in general. NFA stuff must be locked away thus no use as HD. Does the OP even own NFA items???? Please show me where it states NFA must be locked away. Please show me where there it states the NFA "stuff" can not be used for HD. Until then, I am going to state that you are categorally wrong on all counts. If you prove me wrong I will offer a public apology NFA items should not be accessible to others plain and simple, I should not have said "locked away", that is my personal preference though. If your NFA stuff is in a location accessible by others then you are not in compliance. It's your @$$ not mine, do as you please but you are walking a fine line IMO. The chance you will ever need to fire at an intruder in your home are slim to none most likely, so don't worry about your ears. It's one less thing for the anti's to bitch about. And for the OP, drinking will open carrying is just feeding the anti's also. I think everyone made that very clear to you in the HTF. Your NFA firearms must be secured from the control of others only WHEN YOU ARE NOT PRESENT. I don't know if this is what you mean by "not accessible to others plain and simple," but, as stated, your opinion is not correct. |
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There is NO tactical advantage in having a suppressor on a home defense gun, If my life is being threatened, I'm NOT worried about my damn hearing. thats fine and good but what about your wife/kids a year from now when you have functionally deafened them. how about having them/you /bg still be able to hear and respond to commands after the shot is fired. there most certainly IS an advantage to sound suppression on a firearm in a sd situation. if there wasn't LE and mil wouldn't have them. comments like this make me wonder how much training some of you guys actually have in responding to threats. is it a required piece of kit to survive, no. it does however offer some real advantages. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Let's remember your NFA toys must only be available to you. If you keep NFA items in a drawer or closet that your wife, kids, etc have access to you are in the wrong. One more thing to be brought against you in court that is if others live in your house. Use a "regular" gun for HD, it'll make court easier Quoted:
Totally agree w/ you. The original poster needs to gain a better understanding of laws in general. NFA stuff must be locked away thus no use as HD. Does the OP even own NFA items???? Please show me where it states NFA must be locked away. Please show me where there it states the NFA "stuff" can not be used for HD. Until then, I am going to state that you are categorally wrong on all counts. If you prove me wrong I will offer a public apology NFA items should not be accessible to others plain and simple, I should not have said "locked away", that is my personal preference though. If your NFA stuff is in a location accessible by others then you are not in compliance. It's your @$$ not mine, do as you please but you are walking a fine line IMO. The chance you will ever need to fire at an intruder in your home are slim to none most likely, so don't worry about your ears. It's one less thing for the anti's to bitch about. And for the OP, drinking will open carrying is just feeding the anti's also. I think everyone made that very clear to you in the HTF. A couple of things: You stated others need a better understanding of the law when you yourself obviously do not have a grasp. Please stop offereing your opinion as fact. Secondly I would bet money you are against open carry.. |
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I just love how these threads go... How the weapons are stored has nothing to do with the queston. Also, why worry about what the "anti's" don't like. They don't like any of this stuff, so that point is mute.
Jeremy |
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^You are very correct.
OP my apologies for derailing your thread. I have a HALO on my HD rifle. I do not keep a suppressor on my HD handgun, but that has everything to do with size considerations. Since I got my suppressors for all lawful purposes and defense of my home is lawful, I would not give it a second thought. |
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Quoted:
They don't like any of this stuff, so that point is mute. Cool play on words in a suppressor thread. Oh, wait... |
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One of my HD rifles is a M-16A2 lower with a POF 9" upper with a suppressor. My other HD rifle is a LWRC 6.8 SBR w/suppressor.
IMO, it's going to be a good shoot or it isn't. A petty prosecutor came be overcome quite easily with a good defense witness if it goes that far. I'm going to use the best tool I can get. |
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Quoted:
One of my HD rifles is a M-16A2 lower with a POF 9" upper with a suppressor. My other HD rifle is a LWRC 6.8 SBR w/suppressor. IMO, it's going to be a good shoot or it isn't. A petty prosecutor came be overcome quite easily with a good defense witness if it goes that far. I'm going to use the best tool I can get. Good point about brining in a witness if it ever got that far. I'm pretty sure that most juries probably buy into the hollywood myth of silencers. An expert witness would be able to show that a suppressed 5.56 indoors from a 11.5" barrel is nothing like what they they thought it would sound like. Sure it might protect your hearing but it's still not quiet by any means. |
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I think a prosecutor would have to be an extra-special kind of asshole to file charges against you for using a legal weapon in a legal manner just because he doesn't like people owning such things.
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I think a prosecutor would have to be an extra-special kind of asshole to file charges against you for using a legal weapon in a legal manner just because he doesn't like people owning such things. You mean like one that would prosecute Navy SEAL's or go after an oil company cleaning up its own mess, rather than dropping charges in a case you've already won and is moving to the sentencing phase? |
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Quoted: There is NO tactical advantage in having a suppressor on a home defense gun, If my life is being threatened, I'm NOT worried about my damn hearing. How about muzzle flash? I may still want to be able to see. Or how about being able to communicate after you blow your eardrums out? I'm pretty sure I want to know when the police show up and start telling me to put my firearm down so I don't get shot for ignoring them. So I guess I'll go ahead and use my suppressed SBR and live with having functioning eardrums. Some one please post some examples where people have been charged for using NFA items in shootings in their own domiciles that would not have been charged had the weapon been a non NFA weapon. And to the people out there that say they don't want to use their high dollar weapon in a shooting because it might never be seen again, are you fucking serious? I can not think of any weapon that is worth my wife or childrens lives. Why would you not give yourself every benefit to survive the fight? Do you go to training classes and use the cheapest gun you can find or the best one you own? When it comes down to it, all my items are tools and are replaceable, my family is not. |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
There is NO tactical advantage in having a suppressor on a home defense gun, If my life is being threatened, I'm NOT worried about my damn hearing. How about muzzle flash? I may still want to be able to see. Or how about being able to communicate after you blow your eardrums out? I'm pretty sure I want to know when the police show up and start telling me to put my firearm down so I don't get shot for ignoring them. So I guess I'll go ahead and use my suppressed SBR and live with having functioning eardrums. Some one please post some examples where people have been charged for using NFA items in shootings in their own domiciles that would not have been charged had the weapon been a non NFA weapon. And to the people out there that say they don't want to use their high dollar weapon in a shooting because it might never be seen again, are you fucking serious? I can not think of any weapon that is worth my wife or childrens lives. Why would you not give yourself every benefit to survive the fight? Do you go to training classes and use the cheapest gun you can find or the best one you own? When it comes down to it, all my items are tools and are replaceable, my family is not. One of the best posts I have read in a while on this forum... Actual logic still does exist here. Jeremy |
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Quoted:
Quoted:
There is NO tactical advantage in having a suppressor on a home defense gun, If my life is being threatened, I'm NOT worried about my damn hearing. How about muzzle flash? I may still want to be able to see. Or how about being able to communicate after you blow your eardrums out? I'm pretty sure I want to know when the police show up and start telling me to put my firearm down so I don't get shot for ignoring them. So I guess I'll go ahead and use my suppressed SBR and live with having functioning eardrums. Some one please post some examples where people have been charged for using NFA items in shootings in their own domiciles that would not have been charged had the weapon been a non NFA weapon. And to the people out there that say they don't want to use their high dollar weapon in a shooting because it might never be seen again, are you fucking serious? I can not think of any weapon that is worth my wife or childrens lives. Why would you not give yourself every benefit to survive the fight? Do you go to training classes and use the cheapest gun you can find or the best one you own? When it comes down to it, all my items are tools and are replaceable, my family is not. I am certainly not going to shoot some guy breaking into my house with my M60. I am pretty sure there is probably some tactical/firepower advantage or just better piece of mind to have a beltfed hanging in my closet vs the trusty old 12 gauge. Nobody is certainly ever going to get me once I am holed up in there with a 100rd belt locked in. I will also just leave it leaning up against the shoe rack when I go to work since it is just a tool and could be replaced if stolen. Insurance company would cut me a check and I could have another one in a couple months. Also no worries if it got stolen since it's no different than a single shot 410 and a thief is a thief per another post above. I certainly bear no responsibility if I leave only a single pane of bedroom window glass between it and a burglar, it gets stolen and then some lowlife cuts a cop car in half with it or it ends up in Nuevo Laredo shooting up a school bus full of kids. At some point there is a line between being prepared to deal with 99.9% of the problems out there in this world and crossing over into paranoia. For me..... that line is a Glock in the nightstand and a remington in the closet. |
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Paranoia.....Exactly.
My #1 priority is neutralizing the bad guy. I'll deal with ringing ears later. I have several friends who use AR's for home-defense, nothing wrong with that in the least. However, they have so much crap stuck on them they weigh 30lbs and yet they never practice. Sticking stuff on a rifle with the assumption it will make your weapon more effective or help you in a LOD situation is a myth at best. The LAST thing I want to be doing after being woke out of a dead-sleep at 3am is trying to figure out how to turn my light on, making sure my suppressor is tight and trying to rack the bolt on the rifle, while at the same time trying to figure out just WTF is going on. I have suppressors, SBR's, SBS's and a MG and love them all, but when it comes to my personal safety, I have a Glock 19 on my night-stand and a Rem 870 under the bed. I like to KISS. To answer the OP's question, if you feel the need to stick a suppressor on a HD gun, then by all means do it. You may or may not have to defend your choice to do so. |
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