I am in the mood for an accurate bolt rifle.

What are your thoughts on the Remington 700?

Which caliber (I'm thinking 300 Ultra)?

Which model?

Any other makers I should consider?

I just bought a Savage mod 12BVSS in .308.  This rifle seems to group just as well (maybe even better ) than my friends Remington 700. I paid less than $600 for mine OTD, his ran him well over $700.  

The Remington has a big following, and an even bigger selection of aftermarket gizmos, but I am still happy with my Savage out of the box performance.

OSA

Hey there JH225,

I have a Mod 700 BDL Custom Deluxe in 300 Rem Ultra.

It is quite accurate, with a Luepold Varix III 3.5x10X50.  

The ballistics on the 300 Rem ultra mag are very impressive. See www.remington.com/NR/exeres/00000265uadznpwshjmlhccy/RemArms+Product+Group.asp?NRMODE=Published&NRORIGINALURL=%2fammo%2fballistics%2fcenterfire%2f300ultramagbal%2ehtm&NRNODEGUID=%7b56300E5D-7682-4AF3-831F-B28EF98D5607%7d&NRQUERYTERMINATOR=1&cookie%5Ftest=1

The down side to this cartridge is that it is expensive, and it opens up a can a whoop ass on your shoulder.  I'm a chunky dude, 220 lbs, and it gets unpleasnat to shoot after about 10 rounds.

I bought mine to go elk hunting, but haven't had the chance to go yet.  I did kill a whitetail deer with it this last season.  It stopped it in its tracks, like it had been hit by a 2 ton sledge hammer.  

I am partial to Remington but some of the Savages are pretty good.
I'd look carefully at both. I do believe the Remington has many advantages though.

I have a Sendero, in 300 Win. Mag., and it is truly amazing as far as accuracy goes. The Remington (depending upon the model) comes with a better stock (e.g.- HS Precision) and has many more options. Jewell trigger, stocks, Speed Lock Systems Firing Pin, etc....

I think I would stll go with the Remington for the larger calibers.

BTW does anyone has a like to Savage's web page????


Someday I may even consider a Savage to play with, possibly in 30-06.

I would recommend the Remington 700 rifle.

My recommendation of caliber depends on what you are using the rifle for. For varmints and deer-sized game, I recommend the .25-06 REM. It is about the flattest-shooting caliber made. For large game, I recommend the .338 WIN MAG or .338 ULTRA MAG. Also about the flattest-shooting big-bore cartridge. For long-range shooting and target practice, the .308 WIN. It seems to be inherently accurate.

The choice of model also depends on its intended use. If you want to spend less, choose the ADL. Go with the BDL SS if you want a good all-weather rifle. If you want good long-range accuracy for hunting or targets, choose the Sendero, Sendero SF, or PSS.

Remington  700: "Works for me!"
700 PSS / .308 ---

700 BDL / 7mm Rem.Mag. ---

Both have Leupold 4.5-15x40 Vari-X III's in Redfield base/rings.  The PSS with the 2-piece SR bases (for now...I wanted to shoot the rifle!!), and the BDL with 1-pc. JR base (my preference is the 1-pc., I had to get that PSS up and runnin').

The .308 is bone stock and very accurate, especially with the Federal Gold Medal Match 168.  I'll try some other stuff later.

The 7mm is in a Bell&Carlson Premier Thumbhole Sporter stock that I sprayed ultra-flat black with a satin green fogged over it. This rifle is very accurate also.  Federal Premium w/Sierra 165-gr. BTSP is the load this rifle likes.

Were I to recommend having only one bolt-action rifle to cover 99.9% of shooting (hunting, plinking, accuracy, 'sharpshooting'), a Remington 700 LTR in .308 would do it.  That's a lot of little rifle!
Remington 700 = excellent rifle.

Quoted: I just bought a Savage mod 12BVSS in .308.  This rifle seems to group just as well (maybe even better ) than my friends Remington 700. I paid less than $600 for mine OTD, his ran him well over $700.   Here is a link to the equipment exchange: www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=119740 The Remington has a big following, and an even bigger selection of aftermarket gizmos, but I am still happy with my Savage out of the box performance. OSA

I agree.  If you buy a Savage Tactical in 380 for $420.00.  You will have a lot of money next over for Optics.

I have also seen Winchester Police Model 70 for the low 500s.

The only downfall of the tactical is the stock.

Here is one with a McMillian stock and Leupold 6.5x20x50 long range.



Good luck on your decision, they are both fine rifles.

If you are wanting a rifle that will be accurate and have flat trajectory I would go with a 25-06 or my favorite...the .270 Winchester. Both of these shoot flat as a stick and way out there. The recoil isn't as bad as the large calibers either which in my experience leads to better accuracy. The .308 is a good choice simply because so many high quality rounds are available commercially for it. If the hefty loads are what you are wanting, the Remington 700 Sendero in 300 Win Mag would be my choice. There are good match grade rounds available for these and the added weight of the rifle aids a bit in recoil reduction.

I'm having the same decisions as you. This is what I figured. There are 2 problems with the Savage, the trigger and the stock, when you replace those you have a rifle as good as the stock 700. But now the difference in price closes to about $50. Because there is a greater range of accessories for the Remington I plan to go with it. I also plan to buy one used to save some $$.

Sako, TRG.

My first varmiter was a Savage Mod 112 no sights 26" hvy.bbl.w/a Swift scope It was in 22-250 deadly on chucks as far as i could see them But I did not care for stock to narrow up front and the finish to me was not very durable So I sold and bought a Rem. 700 in same cal.and bbl. confirguration stock fits hand much better and wider up front where you sand bag,or use bi-pod
Finish is more wear resistant.Always w/a new gun remember bbl.break-in is very important,and how bbl.had rifling cut or formed is different
There is hammer forged,cut & button rifling if I remember the Rem 700 series bbls.are cut meaning that the rifling is formed by making a number of passes with rifling getting deeper each pass till right depth obtained I like the Rem.700 a lot better it shoots better for me

The US military used the remington 700, not the Savage!

Thanks for all of the thoughts so far, But maybe I should have been a bit more specific.

I will be using this rifle stricly for long range target, etc. Not as a hunting rifle.

I have the Match Grade AR's, and 10/22's, so I am looking at the bolt gun for the same purposes.

Any more idea's?

Quoted: The US military used the remington 700, not the Savage!

The standard issue pistol is the Beretta 92FS. Does that mean it is the best pistol?

Not by a long shot. (pun intended)

Savages will shoot as well or better than the RemChesters for less money. That money saved is money you can use for better optics.

Savage factory triggers suck but they can be adjusted or you can go with the finest trigger I have ever used, the SharpShooter Supply Savage replacement trigger.

Even with the trigger replacement you are into to the rifle for less cash than most RemChesters.

I'm not gonna BS you about savage, I don't have a clue other than lately they have been gaining a lot of respect.  I have several 700 action's (BDL, PSS, VSF..)and they are all great.  All depends on what you are looking to do with this rifle.

Don't forget if you got money to 'blow', you might want to have yourself a custom built.  A good starting point would be to check out a few issues of "the Accurate Rifle" magazine.

www.theaccuraterifle.com/

Quoted: Quoted: The US military used the remington 700, not the Savage! The standard issue pistol is the Beretta 92FS. Does that mean it is the best pistol? Not by a long shot. (pun intended) Savages will shoot as well or better than the RemChesters for less money. That money saved is money you can use for better optics. Savage factory triggers suck but they can be adjusted or you can go with the finest trigger I have ever used, the SharpShooter Supply Savage replacement trigger. Even with the trigger replacement you are into to the rifle for less cash than most RemChesters.

Maynard you missed the boat on this one.

If the Savage was better and cheaper I think the US military research department would have caught that one.  In other words, YOUR WRONG.  And as for your reference to the 92FS and the "best pistol."  I think its obvious that "the best" anything is not relevant to the topic at hand, I mean we are discusing a Savage rifle.  Your comparison would make sense if you had compared the 92FS with the Taurus PT92.  If your logic is consistent you would probably prefer the Taurus, but as government tests showed the Beretta is superior and that's why they picked it, and incidently so did I.

I shoot a Savage BT 112 at 1,000 yards. It hits the target as well as any Remington. Stock has adj cheek comb and a rail for a hand stop. I paid $825. Shot it 1,000 yds Sat. Actually got a few (4) X's. That's with iron sights. I imagine it would do a lot better with a scope. These 60 yr old eyes make it tough to shoot iron.  

Quoted: Maynard you missed the boat on this one. If the Savage was better and cheaper I think the US military research department would have caught that one.  In other words, YOUR WRONG.  And as for your reference to the 92FS and the "best pistol."  I think its obvious that "the best" anything is not relevant to the topic at hand, I mean we are discusing a Savage rifle.  Your comparison would make sense if you had compared the 92FS with the Taurus PT92.  If your logic is consistent you would probably prefer the Taurus, but as government tests showed the Beretta is superior and that's why they picked it, and incidently so did I.

I very well might have missed the boat but here are my thoughts on why the Military stays with the Rem 700 rifles even if there are better choices.

They already have the apparatus in place to blueprint and tweak the Rem 700s. They have been using the Remingtons for some time (I'm not sure when they started using them) and are very familiar with the platform. Plus it would take years to get any program switched and rolling even if the Savage was undoubtedly a better rifle which I think they are.

I used the 92FS analogy due to reports I have read stating that the Beretta came in second in the trials the military conducted but still became the issue pistol due to political considerations.

In the end it's all opinion and what works best for you. I do own both makes of rifles and the Savages have been absolutely terrific for me. The Remington is no slouch but if I had to make one shot it would be with my Savage.

fltri98,

Where in NY are you that you can get out to 1000 yards????? I can't get anywhere near that.

The Remington M700 in 308 is a superb rifle. The actions are smooth,extraction and feeding are always flawless and the accuracy out of the box is amazing. The only thing that sucks is choosing which model.
The VS, PSS, BDL, ADL I love them all. The VS and PSS are probably the most accurate out of the box. I had a PSS in 300ultra mag but I couldn't really find good ammo for it. It was slim pickings and no real good match rounds. I would up trading it but it was fun to shoot.

JerrY

None other than Carlos Hathcock himself praised the Remington 700 as a great rifle, a modern and mature platform, and even said the 'controlled round feed' issue was a NON-issue.
As for the Beretta, in a test with many other firearms, including the HK MP5 sub-gun, the 92FS and the HK were the only ones that fed, fired and ejected the BAT ammo without a failure.
THAT is why the 700 and 92 are US Military preferred weapons.
They're the best for the job.

edited for:
If I can dig up the articles/magazines to back up my statements, I will.   I may have to hunt through a few thousand gun magazines to find them, though...
Some of you may have read the same things.

Quoted: None other than Carlos Hathcock himself praised the Remington 700 as a great rifle, a modern and mature platform, and even said the 'controlled round feed' issue was a NON-issue. As for the Beretta, in a test with many other firearms, including the HK MP5 sub-gun, the 92FS and the HK were the only ones that fed, fired and ejected the BAT ammo without a failure. THAT is why the 700 and 92 are US Military preferred weapons. They're the best for the job. edited for: If I can dig up the articles/magazines to back up my statements, I will.   I may have to hunt through a few thousand gun magazines to find them, though... Some of you may have read the same things.

I would rather not hijack the thread with the pistol trial results but I am interested in seeing the info Bus.

I recall reading that the Sig performed better overall.

Start a new thread if you post the info please.

The bottom line is that they are both fine rifles.

There a couple of great SAVAGE rifles on the equipment exchange.

Here is a link

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=119740

how safe is a rem 700???

(CBS) An hour after his mother took a picture of him last November, 9-year-old Gus Barber lay bleeding to death in her arms. He had been hit by a slug from his mother's Remington Model 700 deer rifle. And Barbara Barber is very, very clear about one thing. "I pulled the safety off and it fired. The gun went off. My finger was nowhere near the trigger. I had an open hand," she recalled.

btw, why did the army chose the M14 over the FAL?????

i'll stick with my savage.

Quoted: how safe is a rem 700??? (CBS) An hour after his mother took a picture of him last November, 9-year-old Gus Barber lay bleeding to death in her arms. He had been hit by a slug from his mother's Remington Model 700 deer rifle. And Barbara Barber is very, very clear about one thing. "I pulled the safety off and it fired. The gun went off. My finger was nowhere near the trigger. I had an open hand," she recalled.

Sorry, it has to be noted:

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND  WHAT IS BEHIND YOUR TARGET.

Not trying to be agrumentive but she violated a major safety rule and paid a dear price for it.

That could have happened with any rifle. Never trust a mechanical safety, the best safety device we have is between our ears.

About that new thread:

BAT ammo; Rem. 700 info.

Both my brother and I own 700pss in 308!  I have a nightforce 12x42 nsx scope on mine and I have no problem hitting 12" targets out to 1000 meters.  My good friend has a tactical savage which shoots fine.  He does not have a drop chart set up yet, so he is lucky to hit full silhouette at 600 meters, where I can put 3 in a bottle cap at this distance.  So I belive that it comes down to your set up.  My 700pss will shout as precise as I wont, probably better.

JH225 the Forbes Rifle + Pistol club has a 1,000 range that is opened for 4 matches during the year and this year for the first time 6 Saturday afternoons for practice.
Forbes and another club share the same road which crosses the Forbes 1,000 field at the 600 yd line. Hence the few dates for 1,000 yd.
Gerry

Quoted: Both my brother and I own 700pss in 308!  I have a nightforce 12x42 nsx scope on mine and I have no problem hitting 12" targets out to 1000 meters.  My good friend has a tactical savage which shoots fine.  He does not have a drop chart set up yet, so he is lucky to hit full silhouette at 600 meters, where I can put 3 in a bottle cap at this distance.  So I belive that it comes down to your set up.  My 700pss will shout as precise as I wont, probably better.

www.huntingnut.com/pointblank.html

This should help your buddy get that rifle dialed in at 600 yards.

Terrific program with many uses including a ballistics calculator.

Best of all, it is free.

Quoted:

Sorry, it has to be noted:

RULE I: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED

RULE II: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY

RULE III: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

RULE IV: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET AND  WHAT IS BEHIND YOUR TARGET.

Not trying to be agrumentive but she violated a major safety rule and paid a dear price for it.

That could have happened with any rifle. Never trust a mechanical safety, the best safety device we have is between our ears.

To be fair, it wasn't rule II she broke.  

My understanding of this case was that the rifle was not pointed at the kid, but rather at a solid object which the kid was behind, unbeknownst to the mother.

Yep, just as bad to violate rule IV--she didn't know what was beyond her target--but far more understandable.

Take a look at the .300 WSM as far as calibers go. .300 WinMag performance from a short action cartridge.

Not wanting to hijack the thread with nonrelevant Baretta 92 info, as Maynard said, here is the additional information I was referring to:

Backing up my statement on the 'Thoughts on Remington 700?' thread:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

None other than Carlos Hathcock himself praised the Remington 700 as a great rifle, a modern and mature platform, and even said the 'controlled round feed' issue was a NON-issue.
As for the Beretta, in a test with many other firearms, including the HK MP5 sub-gun, the 92FS and the HK were the only ones that fed, fired and ejected the BAT ammo without a failure.
THAT is why the 700 and 92 are US Military preferred weapons.
They're the best for the job.

edited for:
If I can dig up the articles/magazines to back up my statements, I will. I may have to hunt through a few thousand gun magazines to find them, though...
Some of you may have read the same things.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




The first statement was from the Petersen's Guns&Ammo Rifle Shooter 1997 special issue with the red cover and the words LONG RANGE in yellow at the top left.
Page 42 article; CARLOS HATHCOCK: The White Feather Sniper.
Page 45:
'Carlos believes the currently issued Marine Carps sniper rifle, the M40A1 built around the Remington Model 700 actio, is superior to any other military sniper rifle in use anywhere in the world.
He dismisses the controversy about "controlled versus uncontrolled" feeding and other arguments about the merits of a particular bolt action over another. "The Model 700 is a mature design and an uncomplicated action. Military armoreres have learned a vairety of ways to enhance the accuracy of the Model 700, and they have much more experience wth the Model 700 than any other type of action." '

Carlos also stated that he like the Unertl copes, but, 'he believes Leupold now makes the best copes for military and police sniper rifles.'
--------------------------------------------

Damnit I'm going to get to the bottom of this Rem. vs Savage debate.

I hate not knowing who builds the best rifle out there.

Now that Rem. offers the PSS with a 9 twist barrel it looks like I'm going to have to take one for the team.

I'm going to have to aquire a Rem. 700 PSS and conduct my own field trials and put it up against my Savage 12BVSS.

I know it will be a huge sacrifice but I'm just doing my part.

The other info I dug up is in regard to the Remington 700 vs. Savage 110FP rifle debates.

Gun Tests magazine in Vol.VIII, No.I, January 1996, page 16, tested the Savage 110FP "(Serviceable)" vs. a Ruger M77 MkII Target"(Not Bad)".  
Article title is "Savage 110FP Tactical and Ruger M-77 Target Rifles Acceptable".
Savage Bottom Line: "Our Savage Model 110FP Tactical's accuracy was ammunition sensitive, and it could have used a better trigger.  However, we think this rifle would be a good, lighter weight alternative to a varmint rifle for those on a budget."
Ruger Bottom Line: "Many competitive shooters probably wouldn't be satisfied with our Ruger Model 77 Mark II target rifle's accuracy, and our shooters felt it should have had a smoother bolt.  Nevertheless, we do think it would make a good entry-level gun for those who can't afford a custom rifle."

Next, in the Gun Tests Vol.VIII, No.11, November 1996, page 17:
Article title is: "Remington M700 Police DM Beats Savage M110 FP Tactical".

Remington 700 Police DM: "Smooth, Accurate."
Remington Bottom Line: " The Remington Model 700 Police DM was well-made, accurate and reliable.  Of the American-made non-custom tactical rifles currently available, this one would be our first choice."

Savage 11FP Tactical: "Acceptable considering Price".
Savage Bottom Line: "Discriminating riflemen probably aren't going to like the Savage Model 110FP Tactical's basic features and performance.  However, we do think this rifle is worth its relatively low price."
----------------------------------

In summary, the Remington was and is a better rifle according to these and many other tests.
It is made either with a floorplate or DM; has a better stock and trigger, and is generally more accurate.  And, more expensive.

The Savage has a blind mag; cheaper stock; 2" shorter bbl.; a decided lack of aftermarket equipment; plus, it does not have the distinction of being the rifle of choice for the military.

When I first wanted a rifle, I was going to get "just one" to do target, hunting, pleasure shooting, and based on an old Guns&Weapons for Law Enforcement article (PLEASE, don't ask me to dig that up after all this other stuff!), I was going to get the Savage 110FP in .308.
I should've done exactly that!
Why?  Because I would've had a rifle and been shooting a helluva lot sooner!
Instead, it took me two years to wade through all the 'experts' advice and end up with the rifle in the second picture I posted in this thread, and culminated in the first rifle pictured, both Remington 700's, which I don't regret purchasing.
The point is that waiting cost me valuable time in the learning curve and gun owning process.
What I ended up doing is becoming a Remington collector!  No problem with that.  I'm glad I got what I did.
If you need to get a rifle sooner and money is a factor, get the Savage and get on it!
If you can wait a bit and get the Remington, do it that way.
Don't wait to get a $2000 scope, either.
Get the 700 and a less expensive scope and get to shooting.
Thanks for the opportunity to dig up all this info.  I hope it is useful.

I have a Rem 700P .308 and like it.  But it was my second choice.  I wanted a Win Model 70 Stealth, but they have been out of stock since last fall, and will not be available until this coming fall per Winchester.

www.snipercountry.com/Intro/intro.htm

From what I have read on many sites, the advantages of the Winchester over the Remington are:

1.  Heavier barrel.
2.  Better quality control at Winchester.
3.  Winchester internal magazine can have internal length limit device removed, to allow longer handloads in the magazine.  I handload my rounds to sit 2-3/1000 off the lands, and the rounds are way too long for the Remington internal magazine - single load only.
4.  Winchester action is square at the bottom, allowing for more positive contact with the stock, as compared to the rounded Rem action.  Supposedly the Winchester has a quasi-epoxy bedding treatment of some kind.  The Remington definitely needs bedded - the contact between the stock and action was sloppy on mine, and the action was not (and I could not get it) centered in the barrel channel, even after bedding.
4.  Better safety (?).
5.  Cheaper price by about $100.

Would like to hear from anyone who actually owns both.

Damnit I'm going to get to the bottom of this Rem. vs Savage debate.

maynard,

Here's my observations:

Rem 700 vs. Savage 10FP short action tactical

Specs:

Rem 700

. 223 1 in 12", HS Precision Stock, tuned trigger, pillar bedded, free floated barrel. heavy barrwl.

Savage 10 FP

.308, Choate Ultimate Sniper Stock, Alum block bedded, tuned trigger, hvy barrel, free floated barrel

The Rem had the better trigger, and a smoother bolt.

The Rem shoots a wider variety of cheap commercial ammo subMOA. The savage would ONLY shoot 168 gr match ($20 a box) ammo subMOA.

The stock Savage trigger is poor, but Timney is making Savage aftermarket triggers now.

The  Savage out of the box stock is a joke.

Both had a nice fit and finish on the barrels and receivers..

To me, the Rem is the better all around package. The Savage can be made competitive with the Rem, but after adding a good stock, and a good trigger, you've spent the same amount of money.

But even after adding the stock and the trigger, my experience was that the Rem STILL had a smoother bolt, and shot more different brands of cheap commercial ammo sub MOA. The Savage ONLY liked the 168 gr. boattails.

There's SELDOM a clear winner between two guns. But for me, its the Rem 700.

HTH

I have only one bolt rifle in my inventory....It's a REM 700 LTR in .308

It's all I need.  I used to shoot it with Surplus ammo (why?....Match ammo sometime do not come easily available.) I did very well until I switch to Federal Gold Match, man o man, I can reach and touch anything out there. Unfortunately, the range that I shoot at, is limited to 100 yards.

Anyone who wants to liquidate their Savage Mod 12 so they can buy a Remington 700.

Please drop me an email.

OSA

I cant say enough good things about my Remington 700VS in 308.  I have Badger Ordnance Rings and Base holding down a Loopy Vari XIII 4.5-14x50 LRT.  When it came time to get a 300 win mag it didnt take much though on what to get.  I went with the Sendero.  Both have the same stock etc.  Its on layaway right now so I have no experience with it but I'm sure it will just as nice.  Probably going to top the Sendero with a Nightforce with lit reticle.  

I've owned several Remington and Savage guns...

The Savage rifles are decent deer rifles, but I really prefer the Remington guns for some reason...

My first time shooting past 100 yards yesterday, I shot 10 shots in a 3" group at 309 yards with my .308 Remington PSS...
At 100 yards, a 1/2" group after 5 shots is normal...

I'm using a cheap Tasco "custom shop" 10-50x50 (30mm tube) scope, and factory 168 grain Remington loads...
I'm sure the gun will shoot better with fancy handloads, and a more experienced shooter...

I'm really thrilled with how well the Remington shoots...


Just my 2 cents...