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Posted: 4/18/2016 8:06:21 PM EDT
All my AR barrels up till now have a 1/9 twist, .223 chamber. I've developed a load that was a prairie dog's nightmare.(55gr v-max over 25.0gr XBR 8208)

Recently put a new upper together with a 1/8 twist and wylde .223 chamber. My groups opened way up, over 2" @ 100 yds. I went back to the drawing board this weekend and put together a ladder 22.0gr - 26.0gr 8208.
Rifle hates any and all charge weights under a 55gr bullet.

Have you had any luck running 55gr bullets?? Should I try some 52's or 60's, what have you had luck with?
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:15:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/18/2016 8:16:12 PM EDT by AJE]
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:22:55 PM EDT
1/8 is not optimum for a 55 grain bullet.  It generally works best with 65 and above.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:34:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zlman:
All my AR barrels up till now have a 1/9 twist, .223 chamber. I've developed a load that was a prairie dog's nightmare.(55gr v-max over 25.0gr XBR 8208)

Recently put a new upper together with a 1/8 twist and wylde .223 chamber. My groups opened way up, over 2" @ 100 yds. I went back to the drawing board this weekend and put together a ladder 22.0gr - 26.0gr 8208.
Rifle hates any and all charge weights under a 55gr bullet.

Have you had any luck running 55gr bullets?? Should I try some 52's or 60's, what have you had luck with?
View Quote

I would look at the assembly and fit of the upper receiver, barrel, and barrel nut first.

Was it a press fit?

Did you bed the barrel?

What torque did you tighten to?

Is there a muzzle device and did you torque it hard?
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:35:48 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mousegun:
1/8 is not optimum for a 55 grain bullet.  It generally works best with 65 and above.
View Quote

I have 1/8 twist barrels that will bug hole 55gr.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:57:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:

I would look at the assembly and fit of the upper receiver, barrel, and barrel nut first.

Was it a press fit?

Did you bed the barrel?

What torque did you tighten to?

Is there a muzzle device and did you torque it hard?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Originally Posted By zlman:
All my AR barrels up till now have a 1/9 twist, .223 chamber. I've developed a load that was a prairie dog's nightmare.(55gr v-max over 25.0gr XBR 8208)

Recently put a new upper together with a 1/8 twist and wylde .223 chamber. My groups opened way up, over 2" @ 100 yds. I went back to the drawing board this weekend and put together a ladder 22.0gr - 26.0gr 8208.
Rifle hates any and all charge weights under a 55gr bullet.

Have you had any luck running 55gr bullets?? Should I try some 52's or 60's, what have you had luck with?

I would look at the assembly and fit of the upper receiver, barrel, and barrel nut first.

Was it a press fit?

Did you bed the barrel?

What torque did you tighten to?

Is there a muzzle device and did you torque it hard?


I think LRRPF may be on the right track, is there anything it will shoot well? How much work have you put in with various bullet weights?

The barrel will tell you what it likes, and it isn't always what we want. My 16" mid length 1-8 RRA will Sub MOA with 55gr bullets, as will my WOA 26" 1-8 and 20" 1-7".
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 8:59:21 PM EDT
I would try some 53gr Vmax, much better BC anyway and see what they do. Mine likes them, but not with XBR8208, it likes them with RL15...go figure

My 1x8 HATES xm855 like 8moa (on a good day) kinda hate. But the American Eagle 50gr Varmint Tips it likes.

I shoot the Hornaday 55gr SP with 24.2gr  XBR 8208, and it likes that load too. I haven't tried the 50 or 55gr Vmax

Link Posted: 4/18/2016 9:00:40 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:

I would look at the assembly and fit of the upper receiver, barrel, and barrel nut first.

Was it a press fit? She was tight going into the upper, very tight.

Did you bed the barrel? Free floated

What torque did you tighten to? ALG FF tube comes with a barrel nut tool to tighten to specified torque

Is there a muzzle device and did you torque it hard? target crowned
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Originally Posted By zlman:
All my AR barrels up till now have a 1/9 twist, .223 chamber. I've developed a load that was a prairie dog's nightmare.(55gr v-max over 25.0gr XBR 8208)

Recently put a new upper together with a 1/8 twist and wylde .223 chamber. My groups opened way up, over 2" @ 100 yds. I went back to the drawing board this weekend and put together a ladder 22.0gr - 26.0gr 8208.
Rifle hates any and all charge weights under a 55gr bullet.

Have you had any luck running 55gr bullets?? Should I try some 52's or 60's, what have you had luck with?

I would look at the assembly and fit of the upper receiver, barrel, and barrel nut first.

Was it a press fit? She was tight going into the upper, very tight.

Did you bed the barrel? Free floated

What torque did you tighten to? ALG FF tube comes with a barrel nut tool to tighten to specified torque

Is there a muzzle device and did you torque it hard? target crowned


I am questioning if I shouldn't have lapped the upper
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 9:04:19 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By billyhill:


I think LRRPF may be on the right track, is there anything it will shoot well? How much work have you put in with various bullet weights? None, 55's are all I have on hand, like 8000 of them. So was really hoping they would perform as well if not better then in my 1/9 barrels

The barrel will tell you what it likes, and it isn't always what we want. My 16" mid length 1-8 RRA will Sub MOA with 55gr bullets, as will my WOA 26" 1-8 and 20" 1-7".
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By billyhill:
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Originally Posted By zlman:
All my AR barrels up till now have a 1/9 twist, .223 chamber. I've developed a load that was a prairie dog's nightmare.(55gr v-max over 25.0gr XBR 8208)

Recently put a new upper together with a 1/8 twist and wylde .223 chamber. My groups opened way up, over 2" @ 100 yds. I went back to the drawing board this weekend and put together a ladder 22.0gr - 26.0gr 8208.
Rifle hates any and all charge weights under a 55gr bullet.

Have you had any luck running 55gr bullets?? Should I try some 52's or 60's, what have you had luck with?

I would look at the assembly and fit of the upper receiver, barrel, and barrel nut first.

Was it a press fit?

Did you bed the barrel?

What torque did you tighten to?

Is there a muzzle device and did you torque it hard?


I think LRRPF may be on the right track, is there anything it will shoot well? How much work have you put in with various bullet weights? None, 55's are all I have on hand, like 8000 of them. So was really hoping they would perform as well if not better then in my 1/9 barrels

The barrel will tell you what it likes, and it isn't always what we want. My 16" mid length 1-8 RRA will Sub MOA with 55gr bullets, as will my WOA 26" 1-8 and 20" 1-7".

Link Posted: 4/18/2016 9:07:39 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By mybronco2:
I would try some 53gr Vmax, much better BC anyway and see what they do. Mine likes them, but not with XBR8208, it likes them with RL15...go figure

My 1x8 HATES xm855 like 8moa (on a good day) kinda hate. But the American Eagle 50gr Varmint Tips it likes.

I shoot the Hornaday 55gr SP with 24.2gr  XBR 8208, and it likes that load too. I haven't tried the 50 or 55gr Vmax

View Quote

We've spoken briefly on your luck with RL 15 and light bullets. I had the opposite results, 50's-55gr bullet wouldn't group worth a damn in my 1/9 barrels. Maybe the 1/8 will like it??
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 9:14:16 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mousegun:
1/8 is not optimum for a 55 grain bullet.  It generally works best with 65 and above.
View Quote

Stuff like this just isn't true. High power shooters disprove this every weekend with 1:8 and 1:7 barrels shooting knots with 52s, 53s, and 55s.

OP, this might just be a load your particular barrel doesn't like. I've shot my tiniest 1:8 groups with 25 of H335 and 26.5 of W748 and 52-55gr bullets. My tiniest XBR groups were with 77s.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 9:33:34 PM EDT
I experienced the same thing when working up loads for my rifle, I had a much more difficult time with the 55s than I did the other bullets. I mostly use Nosler BTs for my coyote loads and found the 60gr and 40gr both shoot better for me.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 9:36:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By zlman:

All my AR barrels up till now have a 1/9 twist, .223 chamber. I've developed a load that was a prairie dog's nightmare.(55gr v-max over 25.0gr XBR 8208)

Recently put a new upper together with a 1/8 twist and wylde .223 chamber. My groups opened way up, over 2" @ 100 yds. I went back to the drawing board this weekend and put together a ladder 22.0gr - 26.0gr 8208.
Rifle hates any and all charge weights under a 55gr bullet.

Have you had any luck running 55gr bullets?? Should I try some 52's or 60's, what have you had luck with?

View Quote



The 10-shot groups pictured below were all fired from my 20" Lothar Walther barrel, which has a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8" twist.  The groups were fired using generic hand-loads (not tuned for any specific barrel.)
















































.......


Lastly, for the Internet Commandos in our viewing audience, here's a pic of a 3-shot group fired from the Lothar Walther barrel.  The group has an extreme spread of 0.183".









...






Link Posted: 4/18/2016 9:38:21 PM EDT
Left target = 1/9 bull barrel, 55gr v-max, 25.0gr XBR
2 on the right = 1/8 barrel, same load as above.

100yds, same day, same lower receiver, 20 rds ea.

I would agree with a previous poster, this barrel(1/8) does NOT like this load.

" />
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 9:42:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Molon:



The 10-shot groups pictured below were all fired from my 20" Lothar Walther barrel, which has a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8" twist.  The groups were fired using generic hand-loads (not tuned for any specific barrel.)





https://app.box.com/shared/static/y2m1skojf80dda3r9l6pjcxwsj5g9vcf.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/y5obg9p7avwdd3bol7oqutrqrtzipixi.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/v3oxcx1my6sqzxf7620fs9iqxkxnwiul.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/0311rb7hc64c90e82hypj94qkvjxaxyh.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/yk23cjetfymqigsef3pusosx580m2s5t.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/migpaalc5hrvoe7dpdallijbvzs9m5b4.jpg






https://app.box.com/shared/static/f025hsxlf82s6numat9sjrsxxuuaztc0.jpg





https://app.box.com/shared/static/jj73mcxb3eparuujqcgyde044ng1yn5d.jpg




.......


Lastly, for the Internet Commandos in our viewing audience, here's a pic of a 3-shot group fired from the Lothar Walther barrel.  The group has an extreme spread of 0.183".




https://app.box.com/shared/static/qr0tfk7rq236wgsa1ono6s9k7kwp29kg.jpg




...






View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By zlman:

All my AR barrels up till now have a 1/9 twist, .223 chamber. I've developed a load that was a prairie dog's nightmare.(55gr v-max over 25.0gr XBR 8208)

Recently put a new upper together with a 1/8 twist and wylde .223 chamber. My groups opened way up, over 2" @ 100 yds. I went back to the drawing board this weekend and put together a ladder 22.0gr - 26.0gr 8208.
Rifle hates any and all charge weights under a 55gr bullet.

Have you had any luck running 55gr bullets?? Should I try some 52's or 60's, what have you had luck with?




The 10-shot groups pictured below were all fired from my 20" Lothar Walther barrel, which has a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8" twist.  The groups were fired using generic hand-loads (not tuned for any specific barrel.)





https://app.box.com/shared/static/y2m1skojf80dda3r9l6pjcxwsj5g9vcf.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/y5obg9p7avwdd3bol7oqutrqrtzipixi.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/v3oxcx1my6sqzxf7620fs9iqxkxnwiul.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/0311rb7hc64c90e82hypj94qkvjxaxyh.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/yk23cjetfymqigsef3pusosx580m2s5t.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/migpaalc5hrvoe7dpdallijbvzs9m5b4.jpg






https://app.box.com/shared/static/f025hsxlf82s6numat9sjrsxxuuaztc0.jpg





https://app.box.com/shared/static/jj73mcxb3eparuujqcgyde044ng1yn5d.jpg




.......


Lastly, for the Internet Commandos in our viewing audience, here's a pic of a 3-shot group fired from the Lothar Walther barrel.  The group has an extreme spread of 0.183".




https://app.box.com/shared/static/qr0tfk7rq236wgsa1ono6s9k7kwp29kg.jpg




...







Molon,

It was your thread with the above photos that convinced me to go with a Lothar Walther barrel. I'm not having the results you did.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 9:49:58 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zlman:

Molon,

It was your thread with the above photos that convinced me to go with a Lothar Walther barrel. I'm not having the results you did.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By zlman:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By zlman:

All my AR barrels up till now have a 1/9 twist, .223 chamber. I've developed a load that was a prairie dog's nightmare.(55gr v-max over 25.0gr XBR 8208)

Recently put a new upper together with a 1/8 twist and wylde .223 chamber. My groups opened way up, over 2" @ 100 yds. I went back to the drawing board this weekend and put together a ladder 22.0gr - 26.0gr 8208.
Rifle hates any and all charge weights under a 55gr bullet.

Have you had any luck running 55gr bullets?? Should I try some 52's or 60's, what have you had luck with?




The 10-shot groups pictured below were all fired from my 20" Lothar Walther barrel, which has a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8" twist.  The groups were fired using generic hand-loads (not tuned for any specific barrel.)





https://app.box.com/shared/static/y2m1skojf80dda3r9l6pjcxwsj5g9vcf.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/y5obg9p7avwdd3bol7oqutrqrtzipixi.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/v3oxcx1my6sqzxf7620fs9iqxkxnwiul.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/0311rb7hc64c90e82hypj94qkvjxaxyh.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/yk23cjetfymqigsef3pusosx580m2s5t.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/migpaalc5hrvoe7dpdallijbvzs9m5b4.jpg






https://app.box.com/shared/static/f025hsxlf82s6numat9sjrsxxuuaztc0.jpg





https://app.box.com/shared/static/jj73mcxb3eparuujqcgyde044ng1yn5d.jpg




.......


Lastly, for the Internet Commandos in our viewing audience, here's a pic of a 3-shot group fired from the Lothar Walther barrel.  The group has an extreme spread of 0.183".




https://app.box.com/shared/static/qr0tfk7rq236wgsa1ono6s9k7kwp29kg.jpg




...







Molon,

It was your thread with the above photos that convinced me to go with a Lothar Walther barrel. I'm not having the results you did.



Try some BlitzKings and MatchKings.


...
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 10:15:49 PM EDT
55gr v-max on the left
55gr blitzking on the right
Ladder test using XBR 8208, charge weight listed between ea set.

I guess using blitzkings my best hope is the 24gr and 25.5gr

" />

" />

" />
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 10:17:05 PM EDT
List what components you have to work with, is it all 55gr V-Max and 8208? What we got to work with?

I LOVE 8208 based on its performance with 77 gr Sierra TMKs, If I had only tried it with my beloved Nosler 77 gr CCs, I would HATE 8208. They don't jive in my WOA uppers. I struggled epically to try and get 60 to 69 gr

bullets of any type to shoot in any of my uppers before finding the right combination. You have just begun with this upper, the adventure has just begun. If everything is put together properly and there are no technical

issues, you will find a way to make it shoot.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 10:19:12 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By billyhill:
List what components you have to work with, is it all 55gr V-Max and 8208? What we got to work with?

I LOVE 8208 based on its performance with 77 gr Sierra TMKs, If I had only tried it with my beloved Nosler 77 gr CCs, I would HATE 8208. They don't jive in my WOA uppers. I struggled epically to try and get 60 to 69 gr

bullets of any type to shoot in any of my uppers before finding the right combination. You have just begun with this upper, the adventure has just begun. If everything is put together properly and there are no technical

issues, you will find a way to make it shoot.
View Quote

XBR, RE 10x and RE 7, are all I have on hand.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 10:23:05 PM EDT
How many rounds down the barrel? It will settle down / change as it is broken in. I was throwing wild shots with first shots for the first few hundred rounds.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 10:24:21 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By billyhill:
How many rounds down the barrel? It will settle down / change as it is broken in. I was throwing wild shots with first shots for the first few hundred rounds.
View Quote

Maybe 200 rds
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 10:26:45 PM EDT
What scope and mount are you using? Ive seen similar results from my bobro mount that failed the push test.



I replaced it with a Geissele Super Precision mount and shot this 10 shot group at 107 yards off a bipod with 52gr SMK's over 27gr RE15 with a BR4bprimer. The load is not worked up, it's based on AeroE's accuracy load.


Link Posted: 4/18/2016 10:29:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 10:29:41 PM EDT
I really like reloder 7 with 52 to 55 gr bullets, look for good things to happen around 21.5 grs., max load and accuracy load for Sierra.  With a 52 gr Sierra SMK that load has agged 5x5s in the low 0.5"s

10 X is another possibility, you are not beat yet. The adventure has only just begun.  It never ends, I have a Forster Co-Ax press arriving tomorrow, enjoy the journey.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 10:34:01 PM EDT
Is your gas tube binding in the upper receiver? It shouldn't touch the barrel nut.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 10:38:04 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:

I have 1/8 twist barrels that will bug hole 55gr.
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Originally Posted By Mousegun:
1/8 is not optimum for a 55 grain bullet.  It generally works best with 65 and above.

I have 1/8 twist barrels that will bug hole 55gr.



I have 1/8 barrels that  bug hole  with 50 gr. When I load for a new barrel, I keep the charge and adjust the oal. Different bullet, just use the same measurement to the ogive. The charge is the rough adjustment, the oal is the fine.
Link Posted: 4/18/2016 10:57:47 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Mousegun:
1/8 is not optimum for a 55 grain bullet.  It generally works best with 65 and above.
View Quote



The 1/8 on my Mk116 is sub-MOA with the right 55gr.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 12:22:02 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Molon:



The 10-shot groups pictured below were all fired from my 20" Lothar Walther barrel, which has a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8" twist.  The groups were fired using generic hand-loads (not tuned for any specific barrel.)





https://app.box.com/shared/static/y2m1skojf80dda3r9l6pjcxwsj5g9vcf.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/y5obg9p7avwdd3bol7oqutrqrtzipixi.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/v3oxcx1my6sqzxf7620fs9iqxkxnwiul.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/0311rb7hc64c90e82hypj94qkvjxaxyh.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/yk23cjetfymqigsef3pusosx580m2s5t.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/migpaalc5hrvoe7dpdallijbvzs9m5b4.jpg






https://app.box.com/shared/static/f025hsxlf82s6numat9sjrsxxuuaztc0.jpg





https://app.box.com/shared/static/jj73mcxb3eparuujqcgyde044ng1yn5d.jpg




.......


Lastly, for the Internet Commandos in our viewing audience, here's a pic of a 3-shot group fired from the Lothar Walther barrel.  The group has an extreme spread of 0.183".




https://app.box.com/shared/static/qr0tfk7rq236wgsa1ono6s9k7kwp29kg.jpg




...






View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By zlman:

All my AR barrels up till now have a 1/9 twist, .223 chamber. I've developed a load that was a prairie dog's nightmare.(55gr v-max over 25.0gr XBR 8208)

Recently put a new upper together with a 1/8 twist and wylde .223 chamber. My groups opened way up, over 2" @ 100 yds. I went back to the drawing board this weekend and put together a ladder 22.0gr - 26.0gr 8208.
Rifle hates any and all charge weights under a 55gr bullet.

Have you had any luck running 55gr bullets?? Should I try some 52's or 60's, what have you had luck with?




The 10-shot groups pictured below were all fired from my 20" Lothar Walther barrel, which has a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8" twist.  The groups were fired using generic hand-loads (not tuned for any specific barrel.)





https://app.box.com/shared/static/y2m1skojf80dda3r9l6pjcxwsj5g9vcf.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/y5obg9p7avwdd3bol7oqutrqrtzipixi.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/v3oxcx1my6sqzxf7620fs9iqxkxnwiul.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/0311rb7hc64c90e82hypj94qkvjxaxyh.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/yk23cjetfymqigsef3pusosx580m2s5t.jpg




https://app.box.com/shared/static/migpaalc5hrvoe7dpdallijbvzs9m5b4.jpg






https://app.box.com/shared/static/f025hsxlf82s6numat9sjrsxxuuaztc0.jpg





https://app.box.com/shared/static/jj73mcxb3eparuujqcgyde044ng1yn5d.jpg




.......


Lastly, for the Internet Commandos in our viewing audience, here's a pic of a 3-shot group fired from the Lothar Walther barrel.  The group has an extreme spread of 0.183".




https://app.box.com/shared/static/qr0tfk7rq236wgsa1ono6s9k7kwp29kg.jpg




...








Load details with the blitzking?
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 12:25:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 12:27:47 AM EDT by MS556]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:



The 1/8 on my Mk116 is sub-MOA with the right 55gr.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 45-Seventy:
Originally Posted By Mousegun:
1/8 is not optimum for a 55 grain bullet.  It generally works best with 65 and above.



The 1/8 on my Mk116 is sub-MOA with the right 55gr.


Agree.  It is not twist.  OP poster just needs to try other combos.  52 grain SMKs and 52 grain flat base Berger target bullets are doing well at 100 yards for me in transition to 1:8 from my former 1:9, both barrels 16".  Still tweaking those loads for the new barrel which only has about 60 rounds through it.


Link Posted: 4/19/2016 10:06:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 10:10:33 AM EDT by greenheadcaller]
Originally Posted By zlman:
All my AR barrels up till now have a 1/9 twist, .223 chamber. I've developed a load that was a prairie dog's nightmare.(55gr v-max over 25.0gr XBR 8208)

Recently put a new upper together with a 1/8 twist and wylde .223 chamber. My groups opened way up, over 2" @ 100 yds. I went back to the drawing board this weekend and put together a ladder 22.0gr - 26.0gr 8208.
Rifle hates any and all charge weights under a 55gr bullet.

Have you had any luck running 55gr bullets?? Should I try some 52's or 60's, what have you had luck with?
View Quote


Keep trying to find the combo that works, imo it isn't the twist, it's something else.

For Ref, our P-Dog crew run 50 g z-max (same as V's) over H322 and/or XBR in everything from 1:7 to 1:12's

(Agree ... the V's and Z's are the ticket in the field lol)

After you rule out the scope/mounts/barrel .... 60 g Vmax give the same "results" as the 55's and 50's on P-dogs ... I simply like the lighter, faster, and typically cheaper 50's  ymmv
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:06:30 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
What scope and mount are you using? Ive seen similar results from my bobro mount that failed the push test. Vortex, Aero mount. No movement that I can detect.

I replaced it with a Geissele Super Precision mount and shot this 10 shot group at 107 yards off a bipod with 52gr SMK's over 27gr RE15 with a BR4bprimer. The load is not worked up, it's based on AeroE's accuracy load.
http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=87360
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Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:08:19 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
Is your gas tube binding in the upper receiver? It shouldn't touch the barrel nut.
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Not at all, upper appears to be assembled to spec.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 8:11:41 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By stewfish:



I have 1/8 barrels that  bug hole  with 50 gr. When I load for a new barrel, I keep the charge and adjust the oal. Different bullet, just use the same measurement to the ogive. The charge is the rough adjustment, the oal is the fine.
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Originally Posted By stewfish:
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Originally Posted By Mousegun:
1/8 is not optimum for a 55 grain bullet.  It generally works best with 65 and above.

I have 1/8 twist barrels that will bug hole 55gr.



I have 1/8 barrels that  bug hole  with 50 gr. When I load for a new barrel, I keep the charge and adjust the oal. Different bullet, just use the same measurement to the ogive. The charge is the rough adjustment, the oal is the fine.
I've never really played with oal, always load for mag length 2.20".
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 10:34:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By zlman:
I've never really played with oal, always load for mag length 2.20".
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Originally Posted By zlman:
Originally Posted By stewfish:
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Originally Posted By Mousegun:
1/8 is not optimum for a 55 grain bullet.  It generally works best with 65 and above.

I have 1/8 twist barrels that will bug hole 55gr.



I have 1/8 barrels that  bug hole  with 50 gr. When I load for a new barrel, I keep the charge and adjust the oal. Different bullet, just use the same measurement to the ogive. The charge is the rough adjustment, the oal is the fine.
I've never really played with oal, always load for mag length 2.20".

Mag length should be "much" longer.
Link Posted: 4/19/2016 10:38:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/19/2016 10:40:34 PM EDT by Kuraki]
I can get 2.260" to feed from Pmags without much trouble and generally stay in the 2.250-2.260 range.

ETA I may have missed it, crimp or no crimp?  The 22-250 I barreled with a Pac Nor wouldn't settle down until I started lightly crimping.  Now it'll do .6 over 25 rounds.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 12:22:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 12:31:30 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By AR-180:

Mag length should be "much" longer.
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Originally Posted By AR-180:
Originally Posted By zlman:
Originally Posted By stewfish:
Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Originally Posted By Mousegun:
1/8 is not optimum for a 55 grain bullet.  It generally works best with 65 and above.

I have 1/8 twist barrels that will bug hole 55gr.



I have 1/8 barrels that  bug hole  with 50 gr. When I load for a new barrel, I keep the charge and adjust the oal. Different bullet, just use the same measurement to the ogive. The charge is the rough adjustment, the oal is the fine.
I've never really played with oal, always load for mag length 2.20".

Mag length should be "much" longer.


Longer is not always better. An old worn out barrel may need 2.26, while a new barrel might get dialed in with the same bullet at 2.225. But the real measurement is at the ogive, because the barrel doesn't care much about anything forward of where the copper meets the rifling.

Try this. After you find your load, get a similar bullet, nothing too drastic like going to an all copper bullet, seat the bullet to the same ogive measurement, and odds are it's going to be dialed also. Switch from a 50 to a 55 grain, if you have a good load that is an optimum charge weight, 5 grains shouldn't make too much of a difference. That's assuming that you are not running an over max load. So, just like when your load doesn't care if the charge is a tenth or two off, it won't care too much that you have a 50 or 52 or even a 55 grain bullet .

The charge weight gets the point of impact, oal adjustment gets your holes touching. The time spent fucking around with the depth of seating is time well spent.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 12:37:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/20/2016 12:41:47 AM EDT by phdog]
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Originally Posted By LRRPF52:

I have 1/8 twist barrels that will bug hole 55gr.
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Originally Posted By LRRPF52:
Originally Posted By Mousegun:
1/8 is not optimum for a 55 grain bullet.  It generally works best with 65 and above.

I have 1/8 twist barrels that will bug hole 55gr.


Ditto. Well, maybe not that good, but mine shoots 2-3 MOA with 55gr ammo and it's not a precision rifle by any means - just a standard mil spec with nothing fancy. I'm also using open sights and my eyes aren't great so gun might be better than what I've observed. In any case, does fine with M193 and cheap 55gr .223 ammo.

Nothing like the other posters, but this is a 5 shot group with M193. It's only 25 yards but with open sights, my poor eyes and my elbow for a rest. Those squares are 3/8 inch.

Link Posted: 4/20/2016 3:52:48 PM EDT
Ah, OP is using Lother Walther barrel.

I personally would only buy LW for a blaster, not a precision gun.

I've been through some that would actually shoot, but a lot of them don't, at least the reject blanks that get sent to the US after the Germans turn their noses on them.

I used to do accuracy testing for a certain rifle manufacturer.

I would go through a lot of LW and Krieger barrels at the time.

Night and day difference across a large set of samples.  I would routinely test 12-20 rifles at a time.

I would say at least 85% of the Kriegers would shoot 1/2" 3rd groups right out of the gate, first rounds on target.

Maybe 33% of the LW's would shoot that way after a few groups.

This was all from a rest, with me behind the trigger, S&B torqued each time with torque wrench.

Especially in 6mm, you couldn't give me a LW barrel.  We had ones that would literally shoot 4 rounds into the .2s, and then a flier opening the group to 1.7", repeatable.

The Germans know how to inspect their steel and send the defective pipes to us untermenschen for sure.
Link Posted: 4/20/2016 6:17:25 PM EDT
One of 7 groups shot today in a ladder test.  This was 26.3 gr of CFE223, 2.240 OAL, 55 gr Blitzking bullets.  Rifle is a 16" Faxon 5.56 Nato Socom bbl 1:8 twist, with a Faxon FF handgaurd on a BCM blemished upper, BCM BCG.

Target grid is 1", shot at 100 yds from a front rest.  

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