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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 9/10/2002 4:32:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/11/2002 5:35:11 PM EDT
Ray, You are going to put 500 bucks into a 300 dollar shotgun. Sell your 1300 for what you have in it, add the 500 dollars and buy a Benelli. Even with all that crap on your gun I could still out shoot you with any one of my 870 hunting shotguns!

Sorry Ray I just had to bust your balls. Seriously if you want to stay in the Winchester family they make a new tactical autoloader 12 gauge that looks good, check it out. The 1300 is a fun gun but not worth all that money. MIKE.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 9:21:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 3:52:08 PM EDT
Don't listen to him wave. That Defender is just fine.
Overkill all the way!
You saw mine, looks like a mean bitch and has
the teeth. Go for it.
Link Posted: 9/12/2002 11:18:22 PM EDT
Wave, you go ahead and Pim, er, Tac that bad boy out if ya want. It's your toy, do whatever ya want. Just make sure that it'll be what you want a year or two from now before ya do it.
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 12:04:03 PM EDT
Ray, I can't help it I am not a gadget guy, I like things simple. The 1300 is a good gun, and fast for a pump but to put a grand into it is too much. I like pumps, I own eight of them, but I am going auto in my old age. I saw the new Winchester tac auto and it looks good but I have not shot or handled it yet. For a thousand dollars I want more than a Ford with moon hubcaps and mudflaps. MIKE.
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 2:47:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2002 2:50:12 PM EDT by Wave]
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 3:34:06 PM EDT
870......best overall shotgun in the world.........if you have to spend $$$....benelli or spas 12 is the way to go..............
Link Posted: 9/13/2002 3:35:20 PM EDT
what if i said my norinco 98 will do anything those high-end fancy guns will do?
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 7:30:10 AM EDT
B&G, You will not get an argument from me about the Remington 870 since I have 3- 12 gauges, and one each in 20, 28 and 410. But Wave is about to come into a little money and wants to stimulate the ecomomy. MIKE.
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 10:17:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 1:22:43 PM EDT
If you're gonna turn your Defender into a Terminator...check out the mods available from Wilson Combat. At least I think their installation $ on the ghost rings is cheaper...

Tango7
Link Posted: 9/14/2002 4:48:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2002 8:29:38 AM EDT by Wave]
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 6:56:04 AM EDT
Wave`s still mad at me about the ninja thing........BUT....if you love that 1300....by all means...go for it!..
Link Posted: 9/15/2002 8:21:39 AM EDT
Do what you want. I've got a folding pistol grip stock and a pistol forgrip with a Tec loader installed.... Lights are later.....
Link Posted: 9/17/2002 11:25:09 AM EDT
I am home sick today and bored so here is my thoughts. With 25 years of heavy shotgun shooting experience, but not an LE, assuming you have a high cap magazine, a side saddle and a sling already, I would say this is my order of importance for pump shotgun add on features:

SURFIRE LIGHT, can't kill it if you can't see it, most crime happens after dark. Plus light blinds your target.

Pistol grip. I like it for control and one hand carry with a sling. Choate stock with pistol grip and adjustable length is great. I keep my stock short.

Some kind of porting or backboring to help with control and recoil reduction (your Vang barrel may have both?)

Use Federal tactical loads for quicker follow up shots or if you are recoil sensitive. Those loads combined with barrel porting and you can shoot one handed.

Just put a big long cheap fiber optic bead at the end of your barrel for now. Does defender have that already? Ghost ring sights can slow you down if you start aiming too much. On the other hand, you still have to aim even if it is a shotgun.

A handgun on your belt.

Large safety and replace follower

Another shotgun, preferably in your wifes hands.

Since this is your first but not your last tactical shotgun, next look heavily at the Benelli shtoguns. The M4! The M1 is fantastic.
Link Posted: 9/17/2002 6:31:42 PM EDT
Ray, I never understood why if you are shooting at a clay bird, traveling 60 miles an hour, 16+ yards away all you need is a bead on the end of the barrel. But if you are shooting at a man sized target across your living room you need a rifle sight. I can see a rifle sight when shooting deer 50 yards away with slugs but not one room away with buckshot. Buy then again we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway.

I feel the same about lights on a long gun, great for jacking deer but if the other guy does not know where I am do I want to turn on a light and show him? MIKE
Link Posted: 9/17/2002 10:39:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
I feel the same about lights on a long gun, great for jacking deer but if the other guy does not know where I am do I want to turn on a light and show him? MIKE



Well, if it's a bright enough light he won't be able to see sh!t or discern where it came from reliably for a few seconds. of course, he might be wearing sunglasses at night.
Link Posted: 9/18/2002 7:32:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/20/2002 4:27:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
Ray, I never understood why if you are shooting at a clay bird, traveling 60 miles an hour, 16+ yards away all you need is a bead on the end of the barrel. But if you are shooting at a man sized target across your living room you need a rifle sight. I can see a rifle sight when shooting deer 50 yards away with slugs but not one room away with buckshot. Buy then again we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway.

I feel the same about lights on a long gun, great for jacking deer but if the other guy does not know where I am do I want to turn on a light and show him? MIKE



I came to the same conclusion about ghost rings on a scattergun. I'm going to just stick with the bead sight on my 870 HD. I've been shooting bead sights all my life so I can aim more quickly without the rings getting in the way.
As to lights, if all you have is a mini mag on the end of your gun, you're better off without it. But a really bright light can simultaniously keep you from shooting someone that you don't want to shoot, and can blind and confuse an adversary for just long enough for you to decide and squeeze the trigger if necessary. Most quality tactical lights have momentary switches so you don't go around with the thing lit up all the time, you only light it a second or so before you shoot (or don't shoot).

BTW - Ray - I vote for a pre-ban M1 Super 90. AND the Defender Terminator!
Link Posted: 9/22/2002 7:11:24 AM EDT
My personal light test:

Does not work with a crappy regular flashlight.

Put at least a 6volt surefire or similar tactical light on your gun. Find a large mirror. Turn off all the lights in the house. Shoulder your gun, aim at the mirror, press the momentary on switch, see what happens to YOUR eyes when your own light is shining back at you. You can do this with any tactical light without the gun.

Research surefire lights and similar products. look at the light on the benelli web site. I am going to buy that next time around.

PLUS: You stand a much better chance in court if you took precautions to insure you knew what you were shooting before you blew it away. Courts like lights. You should also plan for what happens after you use deadly force.
Link Posted: 10/3/2002 3:47:05 PM EDT
Is this tactical shotgun going to be used to defend your house or gun games? IMHO, and I use shotguns for both purposes, a comp on a shotgun is as useful as tits on a bull. It would be hard to beat a Benelli M1 with factory rifle sights for either application fitted with the factory 7 rd mag and 18" barrel. My "open class" gun is built on the same platform but with 26" barrel, 10 rd mag tube, and red-dot sight.
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 9:19:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/4/2002 9:22:25 AM EDT by MC83]
Wave,
I hear you on the small retro check........I had wild thoughts of having MSTN put together an SPR clone with all the retro dough I thought I was getting . Instead it looks like I will just be able to cover the cost of my sons' christening, and a RR trigger. But I digress....I own a Beretta 1201FP with MMC ghost rings, and a Sure Fire forend. It might be worth a look. Be safe.
Mike
NYPD,MWS
Link Posted: 10/4/2002 9:36:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/5/2002 6:48:45 AM EDT
Reality sucks. If you have enough money left over buy the tactical light. You already have a great barrel and you don't need the sights. I can hit a 2 liter plastic bottle on the first shot at 25 yards with a slug and plain barrel with a bead. All you have to do is practice to accomplish that, and not very much either.

FYI I really like the Federal Tactical loads in a pump gun.
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