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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12/26/2002 6:36:50 AM EDT
I know all of the DSA's are metric, so that's not an issue. I'm trying to decide between a full size or a carbine, what options, etc.. What do you guys have and what would you get if you were buying one now? Would like to keep it under $1400.
Post pics too!
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 7:36:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:
I know all of the DSA's are metric, so that's not an issue. I'm trying to decide between a full size or a carbine, what options, etc.. What do you guys have and what would you get if you were buying one now? Would like to keep it under $1400.
Post pics too!



If $1,400 is your limit, you'd be hard-pressed to find a new DSA at that price, tax included.

They've got some "kit" guns that are excellent rifles for less than $1,000 and you can hardly tell they aren't new.

I have a new DSA medium contour stainless and it is a fine rifle. I wholeheartedly recommend DSA products.
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 12:12:46 PM EDT
Didn't realize new ones were that expensive! I guess the M1A comes back into consideration afterall!

OK, let's say $1700. I can get close to a Super Match M1A at that price.
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 3:04:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2002 3:12:07 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 6:21:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2002 6:24:05 PM EDT by USMC03]
gus,

I've got a DSA SA58 Standard with a 21" barrel...You can get the US made SA58s for around $1,400 to $1,500 in my area...and there has been a PRICE DECREASE on DSA's website, most of their SA58 Series rifles are in the $1,400 range




If you can find a FFL that will do a transfer for a small fee, the rifle is only $1,200

A .308 needs 18" of barrel to get a full powder burn. I'm only 5'07" and the DSA SA58 Standard swings very well and is the most well balanced rifle that I have ever held...I thought the 21" barrel would be a little long, but I have no complaints, fits me perfect...even done a couple 3 gun matches with it and the shooting was at close range..

I would not recommend the Medium Contour or heavy barrels unless you are looking for a "bench queen"...I've heard numerous times that the carbines are really loud and have excessive flash...I've shot a couple carbines and they are a little louder but not to the point where they are bothersome...

I've really been impressed by the new SA58 Medium Countour Tactical...this rifle is light, handy, doesn't have a muzzle brake so flash and noise isn't intensified out of the 16" barrel




I was so impressed with my SA58 that I got a DSA STG58A with a 18" barrel and synthetic handguards...When DSA bought the blueprints to the FAL from Styer in Austria they also bought most of the machines that make the rifle parts and 40 TONS of parts that were in new or like new condition...

Even though the STG58A is considered a "parts gun" everyone that I've ever seen has looked like a brand new rifle....MSRP on the STG58A's go for around $1,000, but they are $800 + FFL fee if you can get a FFL to do a cheap transfer for you....

I had been looking at the M1A and the DSA SA58 for about 4 years before I took the plunge...I favored the M1A more until I got my hands on the DSA rifles...the ergonomics were much better for me, parts were more readily avalible, mags were 1/6 the price, it was easier to accessorize, etc...So I went with the DSA, not to mention they have the best customer service I have ever seen....Just my experience...Hope this helps


Link Posted: 12/26/2002 7:17:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/26/2002 7:18:12 PM EDT by warlord]
I've got a Springfield Armory SAR48(built on a Brazilian Imbel receiver) with a 21" BBL, and my buddy got a 18" model. Personally for me I like the standard 21" just because it looks better to me; but the 18" is a lot handier, and the sacrifice in velocity is something like 200ft/sec slower, probably not a big deal.
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 9:25:49 PM EDT
Got my STG58A for $795 plus $15 for shipping plus $20 for a rifle transfer. I bought a special 18" badger barrel and put it on there as well as a nice Ergo grip. It's a sweet battle rifle.
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 9:30:38 PM EDT
Troy's right. Get the Austrian "kit" gun. You'll never know that the refurbished parts aren't new and the important parts are better than new since they're Steyr, including a coveted Steyr hammer-forged barrel. You'll still get a new DSA forged receiver. These Steyr made STG58s are known in FAL circles as the cream of FALs as quality and durability. I wish I had another STG58. The DSA Austian kit is the best of both worlds. You get the new DSA receiver and a perfect Steyr STG58.
Link Posted: 12/26/2002 10:01:02 PM EDT
My SHTF gun is an SA58 carbine. I like it a lot; its nice and handy, has a full-length sight radius, the comp works well, the ammo punches through most anything in an urban street, and (most important) this gun looks like the dogs-bollocks !!

Muzzle-blast is really something though... not too bad for the shooter (with plugs), but scares the $#!+ out of anyone to the side of you. In SHTF situation, I plan to wear electronic hearing protection (side benefit - they amplify your hearing)... otherwise the risk of hearing loss would be serious.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 5:30:26 AM EDT
Forgot to add that my SA58 is lighter and better balanced than my DSA STG58A...This is due to the lighter Badger match barrel and the DSA Aluminum lightweight lower...The SA58 is definately worth the extra $$....But both are worth what you pay for them...Just my .02



Link Posted: 12/27/2002 6:25:19 AM EDT
Thanks for the info guys! I had checked the DSA web site and thought the prices must be MSRP. Apparently they are. Anyway, I may just take Troy's advice. I'm definately getting a 308 SOMETHING, and the FAL is probably going to be it.

Troy - do you remember "The Hammer" from the BRC MG rental dude? It was a full auto FAL (L1A1 maybe) with a 12" barrel! Lots of fun!

Anyway, I'll also talk to my local dealer and see what he has and how his prices are (he stocks DSA). Thanks again!!!!!
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 6:34:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:
Thanks for the info guys! I had checked the DSA web site and thought the prices must be MSRP. Apparently they are. Anyway, I may just take Troy's advice. I'm definately getting a 308 SOMETHING, and the FAL is probably going to be it.

Troy - do you remember "The Hammer" from the BRC MG rental dude? It was a full auto FAL (L1A1 maybe) with a 12" barrel! Lots of fun!

Anyway, I'll also talk to my local dealer and see what he has and how his prices are (he stocks DSA). Thanks again!!!!!



DSA protects their wholesale prices like they were a national security issue! Even though everyone on a well known FAL web site Knows what the prices are & several other dealers list the DSA wholesale prices online.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 6:59:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:

Originally Posted By gus:
I know all of the DSA's are metric, so that's not an issue. I'm trying to decide between a full size or a carbine, what options, etc.. What do you guys have and what would you get if you were buying one now? Would like to keep it under $1400.
Post pics too!



If $1,400 is your limit, you'd be hard-pressed to find a new DSA at that price, tax included.

They've got some "kit" guns that are excellent rifles for less than $1,000 and you can hardly tell they aren't new.

I have a new DSA medium contour stainless and it is a fine rifle. I wholeheartedly recommend DSA products.



First of all, I'm jealous, I think the medium contour stainless is one of the best looking of the lot of DSA's (that walnut furniture is sweet looking too).

I think you can get into a new DSA for around $1,400. I purchased a new DSA SA58 and added the Carbon Fiber Free-Float Tube and the total with tax came to a hair under $1,500 (tax included). The free float tube was a $105.00 option. My dealer informed me that his markup was 10%. Those of you whom are more mathematically inclined can do the math.

As for carbine or full-size, I too had trouble deciding. After some poking around, I decided to compromise. While I didn't want to haul around the full size rifle with a 21" barrel and its long receiver, I also didn't want the blast and fireball of a 16". DSA was happy to cut down my barrel for no extra cost to 18". A happy medium IMO.

The only thing that I would have done differently is that I would have had the muzzle brake left off after having the barrel trimmed down. A lot of folks complain about the blast and frankly, I don't think it's bad, however, it does add an inch or two to the length and is a pain to clean and the recoil is so light on the rifle to begin with that I don't see that it does any good. On the upside, it is cool looking but not really worth it as far as I'm concerned.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 7:19:11 AM EDT
As mentioned earlier, go thru your local FFL who'll just handle the transfer and you can save $200. I ordered my STG58A, paid DSA myself (approx. $800), and now only owe my FFL $10 for the transfer. Good luck and have fun!
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 7:28:23 AM EDT
I did the same, got the standard stg-58a, and the carbine model that way. $795+ 15 ship + 20 to ffl.. was the cheapest way. The carbine was another $50, $845+ 15 ship + 20 to ffl.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 8:29:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:
Thanks for the info guys! I had checked the DSA web site and thought the prices must be MSRP. Apparently they are. Anyway, I may just take Troy's advice. I'm definately getting a 308 SOMETHING, and the FAL is probably going to be it.

Troy - do you remember "The Hammer" from the BRC MG rental dude? It was a full auto FAL (L1A1 maybe) with a 12" barrel! Lots of fun!

Anyway, I'll also talk to my local dealer and see what he has and how his prices are (he stocks DSA). Thanks again!!!!!



I too agree with Troy's recommendations.
Last I checked the rifle was $800 and the carbine $850 dealer cost - both plus shipping.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 8:45:06 AM EDT
I didn't realize that DSA would cut down their barrels if you requested it. This is true?

I love the idea of an 18.5" barrel on an FAL...!

Anyone else confirm this?
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 8:52:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Troy:
It is rifle-length only, but only costs about $1,000, and you can have a number of folks chop the barrel down for you if you wish. Standard barrel length is 21", but 18" (a non-standard length that isn't normally available) is just about perfect.

-Troy




Actually the DSA STG58A comes in both rifle (21" barrel) and carbine (16" barrel) versions, check DSA's website.....DSA will also cut the barrel to any length you want for a fee of around $50 and also attach any muzzle brake you want....When I ordered my DSA STG58A I requested a 18" barrel with the short STG58A muzzle brake (the short muzzle brake is the one that is on the STG58A Carbine) and also order the rifle with the synthetic handguards instead of the aluminum handguards...

DSA does custom work and you can order your rifle in the configuration that you want....


Link Posted: 12/27/2002 9:28:51 AM EDT
I've got a DSA standard carbine-excellent gun. Get the synthetic handguards, as the metal 'guards do tend to heat up. DSA's scope mount is good, but is heavy. I went from optics back to irons with the FAL. Scope mounting platforms are a weak point for the FAL.

If you want a NIB DSA SA58 at a very fair price (~$1250) for both the standard and lightweight carbine, check out Keifer's Gunshop in Walnutsport, PA. He advertises in Gun List on a regular basis. I've posted his phone number here before, so maybe a search would turn it up. The STG58s are also a great gun; I've handled and shot a couple of them. Probably a best buy for a good shooter.

Lots of FAL goodies at the falfiles board...

I also like the looks of the new tactical carbine, but have not handled or seen one in the flesh.

Link Posted: 12/27/2002 10:20:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By legalese77:
.
.
DSA was happy to cut down my barrel for no extra cost to 18". A happy medium IMO.

The only thing that I would have done differently is that I would have had the muzzle brake left off after having the barrel trimmed down. A lot of folks complain about the blast and frankly, I don't think it's bad, however, it does add an inch or two to the length and is a pain to clean and the recoil is so light on the rifle to begin with that I don't see that it does any good. On the upside, it is cool looking but not really worth it as far as I'm concerned.


The HK91/G3s have an 18" BBL. So what you are doing is nothing new. I personally would leave the muzzle brake on though, unless of course the overall lenght is a big concern. I don't think the blast is all that bad. My $.05.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 11:29:23 AM EDT
Gus,
DSA rifles are great. Any one would be a great choice.

Also check out: arizonaresponsesystems.com

Mark built me an STG58 using Steyer kit parts.

All I can say is: AWESOME.

You won't be sorry.

Dave
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 12:22:59 PM EDT
True DSA will cut down any barrel to any size you prefer for free, But if you want it crowned it is a $60 charge!
I ordered a STG58 with a chrome lined Argie barrel cut down to 18in.; I can't wait to try her out!
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 2:10:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2002 2:11:30 PM EDT by legalese77]

Originally Posted By warlord:




The HK91/G3s have an 18" BBL. So what you are doing is nothing new.



1) you're absolutely right. A number of other guys (at the falfiles) also felt that the 18" barrel was a good compromise and I thought what they had to say made sense. In retrospect, I am happy with my decision here.



I personally would leave the muzzle brake on though, unless of course the overall lenght is a big concern. I don't think the blast is all that bad. My $.05.



2) I agree, I don't think my DSA SA58 w/ 18" BBl and standard brake is any worse than my 9mm pistol and in fact has less of a sharp sound so is therefore easier for me to tolerate though hearing protection is a good idea when practical. The look is cool but I would rather have the shortest rifle I need with minimum accuracy and power compromise. Functionally, I don't think the muzzle brake is worth the extra couple inches on the rifle. Aesthetically, its badass looking but oh well...it's on but if I had it to do over again I would leave it off.

3) DSA was happy to cut the barrel down at no charge. Since I left the muzzle brake on I have no idea about what they charge for crowning the muzzle. They did, however, reattach the brake at no charge as well. This was all done in the last couple of months. You could always call DSA and ask. The lady I spoke with was quite knowledgable and ultra-friendly.

(edited b/c I am too retarded to use tags properly)
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 2:29:42 PM EDT
I got my gunshop to order me a DSA SA58 Carbine.. it was 1,444 with tax.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 4:10:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2002 4:14:15 PM EDT by Troy]
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 6:44:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2002 6:47:50 PM EDT by garr]

Originally Posted By legalese77:

Originally Posted By warlord:




The HK91/G3s have an 18" BBL. So what you are doing is nothing new.



1) you're absolutely right. A number of other guys (at the falfiles) also felt that the 18" barrel was a good compromise and I thought what they had to say made sense. In retrospect, I am happy with my decision here.

I ordered my DSA with no brake, They charged me $60 for crowning the muzzle, I had someone at the FAL files make me a slipover fake Belgan short flash hider, It will make the 18inch barrel look like a 15inch!



I personally would leave the muzzle brake on though, unless of course the overall lenght is a big concern. I don't think the blast is all that bad. My $.05.



2) I agree, I don't think my DSA SA58 w/ 18" BBl and standard brake is any worse than my 9mm pistol and in fact has less of a sharp sound so is therefore easier for me to tolerate though hearing protection is a good idea when practical. The look is cool but I would rather have the shortest rifle I need with minimum accuracy and power compromise. Functionally, I don't think the muzzle brake is worth the extra couple inches on the rifle. Aesthetically, its badass looking but oh well...it's on but if I had it to do over again I would leave it off.

3) DSA was happy to cut the barrel down at no charge. Since I left the muzzle brake on I have no idea about what they charge for crowning the muzzle. They did, however, reattach the brake at no charge as well. This was all done in the last couple of months. You could always call DSA and ask. The lady I spoke with was quite knowledgable and ultra-friendly.

(edited b/c I am too retarded to use tags properly)



You must have really good hearing protection, I was next to a guy with a DSA rifle with the standard brake & It was brutally loud, A whole lot louder than any 9mm pistol I ever heard, Even louder than my AR10 carbine! The only brake I heard that was louder was the one on the Cetme rifles!
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 6:54:38 PM EDT
garr: maybe I'm just deaf from too much rock and roll music I dunno...
also, I'm told that those people to the side of the rifle experience the greatest increase in muzzle blast...I suppose this is as a result of the way the brake vents but I'm no physicist.

I haven't fired it w/ hearing protection yet, although I should and will in the future. All I can tell you from experience is that I can stand the FAL w/brake as easily as a 9mm pistol when firing. I can't say much beyond that.

I have heard the same sort of fierce muzzle blast stories repeatedly on the various boards. I was really concerned I wasn't going ot be able to tolerate my brand new rifle :(. I wouldn't describe the blast as mild but it is not as bad as I had expected.

I guess it's a pretty subjective thing. I speak only from my limited experience.
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 7:09:20 PM EDT
TROY,

The muzzle brake that you showed is the SHORT STG58A MUZZLE BRAKE, it's the same one that I have on my STG58A...Here's a pic:

DSA STG58A with 18" barrel, short STG58A muzzle brake, and synthetic handguards:




And my DSA SA58 Standard (21" barrel)





Link Posted: 12/27/2002 8:20:16 PM EDT
Gosh, that 18" bbl FAL is sweet...
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 8:56:16 PM EDT
I apologize for this in advance but since I have an audience...[hijack begins]

I wish I had some pics to post so people could envy my rifle :)

I can't say enough good stuff about my SA58. It look sweet, it shoots sweet it operates sweet and for a rifle it cleans up pretty easy

(God I hate cleaning...particularly the first 20 rounds with the FAL as the badger barrel insert recommends a 10 round bore clean clean-every-round and further ten round bore clean every-two-round break in cycle for the barrel...after all at .14 a round and $1500+ invested in ammo, mags, rifle, etc...why take chances...just clean the damn thing and you'll be happy when you still have something left to pass on to the grandkids- man but the cleaning solution and lubricating oil soaks my skin and everything nearby).

Of course, most people would be pretty hot if a $1500 rifle wasn't a great arm. And frankly, I'm not nearly enough of a marksman to get the full potential from my FAL. In fact, I haven't put enough rounds through this rifle to even say that it's broken in. And sadly, my rifle is not a historically accurate copy of any model (that I'm aware). So, maybe I'm just not discriminating enough.

On the other hand, when a person who is as strapped for cash as me spends a year's entertainment budget on a rifle and is still happy...well, who cares, I'm pleased and I don't regret my purchase a bit so far.

On an unrelated note since the FALers are here... anyone know where I can pick up a good chamber brush for the FAL? (sadly all I have access to are Hoppe's segmented rods and Hoppe's cleaning stuff and a couple of remington products at the local shop)
On that note, yes I'm too lazy to surf for it (and don't you wanna show me how much you know?) and does WAL-MART or K-Mart or some other similar place sell CLP?

Oh, well, since it's late and it's Friday let me relate an anecdote to those who care:

The little sleepy town where my FFL does business is a small, rural, Illinois working class one-bar town. When I first went to inspect my newly arrived DSA and when I picked it up, the police chief was there just hangin' out. Not shopping, mind you...just chewin the fat. I think that these guys were so excited about the rifle that the dealer called the chief in to check it out! now, we can speculate that he thought I was a terrorist or whatever...but so what? Why show up in plain clothes...twice? I dunno... I really got the impression that it was genuine interest...anyway, they joked about gettin to break it in, etc...wanted me to call when I had a range report for them. Maybe I'm just not jaded enough but I lub my FAL!
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 10:38:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/27/2002 11:41:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/27/2002 11:44:05 PM EDT by cnatra]
Well I've got virtually the same rifles as USMC03.

I bought a SA58 standard rifle back in '99(for MSRP!) & after messing with the DSA, an AR10 & a M1A for the next couple of years I sold those last two rifles & bought a STG58 carbine. It's just as nice as the SA58 & was a lot less money. I really like the FAL's!
The 18" carbine handles better than the 21" rifle but I've got the bi-pod on the rifle now with a inexpensive 3x12 Tasco scope.
I put a AR15A2 sight on the carbine & replaced the fake flash suppressor with a muzzle brake from www.vandenbergcustom.com
Lots of spare parts & inexpensive mags out there for the metric FAL's.
go to www.tapco.com for some of the MINT Belgian FAL mags

If you get one you won't regret it!
Link Posted: 12/28/2002 4:45:23 AM EDT
legalese77
Member
I use M14 chamber brushes in all my .308 rifles, Freds (The M14 riflestock guy) sells them cheap?
Link Posted: 12/28/2002 5:06:58 AM EDT
Thanks for the complements guys....I agree both the SA58 and the STG58A are worth the money you spend on them....

The SA58 demands a higher price because it has a Badger match barrel that has been cryo treated, all the parts are made in the US, it has a DSA lightweight lower, and numerous other upgrades...

My SA58 with 21" barrel is actually lighter, swings better, and overall is a better rifle than the STG58A...That being said both rifles were worth the money that was spent on them...If I had to pick just one I would pick the SA58, but it is the more expensive rifle...

Something that people forget is that the Austrian parts on the STG58A was made with 1950s and 1960s technology, but the US parts on the SA58 are made with 1990s and 2000s technology....

Don't get me wrong the STG58A is a great rifle, everyone that I have ever seen has looked brand new....The SA58 demands a higher price for a reason....

For some good info do a little research, read the magazine articles at www.dsarms.com...pay special attention to the Soldier of Fortune and the Gun Test articles, both articles have a lot of good technical information....

DSA is a great company to work with, they can do what ever you want done at the factory before they send their rifle out to you and their customer service is top notch!!!!!!



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