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Link Posted: 7/8/2020 4:15:03 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2020 4:21:20 AM EST by JohnDough]
What is the difference...really? I have looked at the photos posted, but photos don't give a good indicator, really.

When comparing a hand selected L3 tube in filmless vs these fall-out spec tubes, is a noob like me going to pick one up and be astounded at the difference in quality? How much difference is there, really? Is this like comparing a 1000 lumen to a 1200 lumen flashlight, or a 20 lumen to a 200 lumen flashlight, so to speak?

$3000 is a lot of ammo and training.
vs.
$5500 is a lot to spend on something I won't be pleased with.
Link Posted: 7/8/2020 6:39:04 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JohnDough:
What is the difference...really? I have looked at the photos posted, but photos don't give a good indicator, really.

When comparing a hand selected L3 tube in filmless vs these fall-out spec tubes, is a noob like me going to pick one up and be astounded at the difference in quality? How much difference is there, really? Is this like comparing a 1000 lumen to a 1200 lumen flashlight, or a 20 lumen to a 200 lumen flashlight, so to speak?

$3000 is a lot of ammo and training.
vs.
$5500 is a lot to spend on something I won't be pleased with.
View Quote


Yes and no.

Going from no NV to a gen 3 thin filmed WP unit right off the bat is going to be mind blowing. Looking through the filmless unit next to your thin filmed is eye opening. Shows you what you've been missing.

But if you don't look through or use a filmless, I don't think you'd ever feel like a thin filmed is lacking
Link Posted: 7/8/2020 7:09:25 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2020 9:07:45 AM EST by JohnDough]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Synyster06Gates:


Yes and no.

Going from no NV to a gen 3 thin filmed WP unit right off the bat is going to be mind blowing. Looking through the filmless unit next to your thin filmed is eye opening. Shows you what you've been missing.

But if you don't look through or use a filmless, I don't think you'd ever feel like a thin filmed is lacking
View Quote


Will something like a mawl or ngal level the field, sans passive shooting application?  Is this elbit offering still > a baller handpicked filmless pvs?

Like...this is pretty horrible. I'd rather not even have NODS and just use white light and save my money if this is what I would be expecting, for example:
Link Posted: 7/8/2020 2:33:33 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JohnDough:


Will something like a mawl or ngal level the field, sans passive shooting application?  Is this elbit offering still > a baller handpicked filmless pvs?

Like...this is pretty horrible. I'd rather not even have NODS and just use white light and save my money if this is what I would be expecting, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9ZYrw2J8GY
View Quote


Have you used NV before? Not being a smart ass btw.

The lighting conditions greatly impact how well NV performs/looks. In fact, it can look much worse than this even with the best tubes. If it's bad with decent gen 3 NV than it'll be really bad with your unaided eyes.

Using IR makes a world of difference.

A lot of guys mainly show pics/vids in brighter conditions (Moon light, city glow, etc) because it looks the best.
Link Posted: 7/8/2020 2:50:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JohnDough:


Will something like a mawl or ngal level the field, sans passive shooting application?  Is this elbit offering still > a baller handpicked filmless pvs?

Like...this is pretty horrible. I'd rather not even have NODS and just use white light and save my money if this is what I would be expecting, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9ZYrw2J8GY
View Quote

There’s really nothing wrong with that video lol. Everything looks better in person, but that image quality is far from poor quality. If you’ve never used NV before, you likely have unreasonable expectations.
Link Posted: 7/8/2020 2:58:20 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/8/2020 3:03:54 PM EST by matt_tn]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JohnDough:


Will something like a mawl or ngal level the field, sans passive shooting application?  Is this elbit offering still > a baller handpicked filmless pvs?

Like...this is pretty horrible. I'd rather not even have NODS and just use white light and save my money if this is what I would be expecting, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9ZYrw2J8GY
View Quote


The elbit offering is almost guaranteed not going to perform the same as a handpicked filmless, but is filmless’s performance/image worth an extra grand or two. That’s a subjective choice.

NV image can be considerably worse than the vid you linked. The vid actually looked ok imo.

It doesnt matter if its the elbit or a filmless. Past a certain level of darkness the tube is not going to be able to see much without additional illumination.

Really if a nice flashlight is sufficient for all your needs/wants that definitely makes the best money sense.
Link Posted: 7/8/2020 3:29:54 PM EST
Received Fedex Tracking number
Link Posted: 7/8/2020 3:35:30 PM EST
Nice! Hopefully by Saturday or Monday people will start having some idea of what to expect.
Link Posted: 7/8/2020 3:55:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
Received Fedex Tracking number
View Quote


same
Link Posted: 7/8/2020 8:57:24 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
Received Fedex Tracking number
View Quote


Welcome to the club
Link Posted: 7/8/2020 9:14:33 PM EST
Robert charged my card today for the DBAL-A3, so I've got that going for me!
Link Posted: 7/8/2020 9:30:59 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
Received Fedex Tracking number
View Quote

I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks.  More time to research all the other stuff I'll need.  
Link Posted: 7/8/2020 9:41:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/9/2020 6:21:11 AM EST by ubelongoutside]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By txjim42:

I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks.  More time to research all the other stuff I'll need.  
View Quote View All Quotes
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Originally Posted By txjim42:
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
Received Fedex Tracking number

I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks.  More time to research all the other stuff I'll need.  



I'm in the same boat. I'll be searching around for a mount and bracket. Got the bump cap in the order with the unit.
Link Posted: 7/8/2020 10:25:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chase45:


Welcome to the club
View Quote

I’m sure I’ve used up all my good luck for the year. Now my bet my bookie’s gonna call my debt, my wife will meet my girlfriend, and my grandpa will die
Link Posted: 7/8/2020 10:35:15 PM EST
Next week I've an appointment to try out various nods. I've only seen through a gov issue pvs 14 before. It was beautiful. Not at all grainy like that video.
Link Posted: 7/9/2020 2:14:36 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ubelongoutside:



I'm in the same boat. I'll be searching around for a mount and bracket. Got the bump cap in the order with the unit.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ubelongoutside:
Originally Posted By txjim42:
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
Received Fedex Tracking number

I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks.  More time to research all the other stuff I'll need.  



I'm in the same boat. I'll be searching around for a mount and bracket. Got the bump cap in the order with the unit.


Website says 12-15 weeks now.  Damn.  
Gonna have to go to plan B for me, I guess.  Not sure what that is yet though but it will cost me more.
Link Posted: 7/10/2020 11:20:11 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JohnDough:
Next week I've an appointment to try out various nods. I've only seen through a gov issue pvs 14 before. It was beautiful. Not at all grainy like that video.
View Quote

I have very high spec unfilmed white tubes that look great with the naked eye.  When i use my iphone to record a video, it doesnt look like it does in person.  The camera definitely matters.  My buddy took a video through my tubes with his new iphone and it looked gorgeous.  My phone.  Not so much...
Link Posted: 7/10/2020 2:15:14 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KeithU:


Website says 12-15 weeks now.  Damn.  
Gonna have to go to plan B for me, I guess.  Not sure what that is yet though but it will cost me more.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By KeithU:
Originally Posted By ubelongoutside:
Originally Posted By txjim42:
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
Received Fedex Tracking number

I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks.  More time to research all the other stuff I'll need.  



I'm in the same boat. I'll be searching around for a mount and bracket. Got the bump cap in the order with the unit.


Website says 12-15 weeks now.  Damn.  
Gonna have to go to plan B for me, I guess.  Not sure what that is yet though but it will cost me more.


This offering is gonna be my first Gen 3 experience. I will wait until the lead time drops and until then, it will give me time to save up
Link Posted: 7/10/2020 3:10:31 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By txjim42:

I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks.  More time to research all the other stuff I'll need.  
View Quote

same here.  got a helmet coming in tmrw.  I got a fandyfire but still need to figure out how to mount it.  I'm sort of thinking I might just get an Arisaka IR w/ mlok offset mount. Then it's DBAL D2 and Wilcox G24.  

After that, I train.
Link Posted: 7/10/2020 4:25:30 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By revengeismine:


This offering is gonna be my first Gen 3 experience. I will wait until the lead time drops and until then, it will give me time to save up
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By revengeismine:
Originally Posted By KeithU:
Originally Posted By ubelongoutside:
Originally Posted By txjim42:
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
Received Fedex Tracking number

I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks.  More time to research all the other stuff I'll need.  



I'm in the same boat. I'll be searching around for a mount and bracket. Got the bump cap in the order with the unit.


Website says 12-15 weeks now.  Damn.  
Gonna have to go to plan B for me, I guess.  Not sure what that is yet though but it will cost me more.


This offering is gonna be my first Gen 3 experience. I will wait until the lead time drops and until then, it will give me time to save up


Got a feeling you will have a looonngg time to save up
Link Posted: 7/10/2020 8:45:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DV8EDD:

same here.  got a helmet coming in tmrw.  I got a fandyfire but still need to figure out how to mount it.  I'm sort of thinking I might just get an Arisaka IR w/ mlok offset mount. Then it's DBAL D2 and Wilcox G24.  

After that, I train.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DV8EDD:
Originally Posted By txjim42:

I waffled for 2 days so I get to wait 8-10 weeks.  More time to research all the other stuff I'll need.  

same here.  got a helmet coming in tmrw.  I got a fandyfire but still need to figure out how to mount it.  I'm sort of thinking I might just get an Arisaka IR w/ mlok offset mount. Then it's DBAL D2 and Wilcox G24.  

After that, I train.

What helmet did you go with? I was originally going ops core bump but I couldn't find one in stock anywhere. So I picked up a wendy instead.

Now I'm trying to decide if I want to get a D2 or take my chances on a perst 3.

In any case, this new hobby is going to bankrupt me.
Link Posted: 7/10/2020 8:47:51 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By -Abyss-:

What helmet did you go with? I was originally going ops core bump but I couldn't find one in stock anywhere. So I picked up a wendy instead.

Now I'm trying to decide if I want to get a D2 or take my chances on a perst 3.

In any case, this new hobby is going to bankrupt me.
View Quote


Is a DBAL-A3 a considerstion? JRH Enterprises has them in stock and on sale.
Link Posted: 7/10/2020 10:10:56 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By JohnDough:
Next week I've an appointment to try out various nods. I've only seen through a gov issue pvs 14 before. It was beautiful. Not at all grainy like that video.
View Quote


It's a video. Do you take visual acuity tests based on YouTube videos?
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 5:33:40 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By -Abyss-:

What helmet did you go with? I was originally going ops core bump but I couldn't find one in stock anywhere. So I picked up a wendy instead.

Now I'm trying to decide if I want to get a D2 or take my chances on a perst 3.

In any case, this new hobby is going to bankrupt me.
View Quote

@-Abyss- I'm getting a Hard Head Veteran bump helmet.  I think they get some hate on here so I should be clear it is a gift.  but I'll report on quality and all that.

Ops core or TW, probably can't go wrong.  I had a good conversation with Bill at TNVC, their training manager.  Obviously he has a lot of experience with pretty much any equipment made.  I came away from that thinking the same, D2 or Perst.  he said the D2 illuminator is really good, though the sacrifice with the D2 is weight.
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 12:16:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2020 12:17:34 PM EST by bradpierson26]
Specs in the OP

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 12:22:43 PM EST
Someone explain specs
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 12:27:25 PM EST
@tnvc or anyone

These are supposed to click together?

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 12:32:14 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2020 12:33:44 PM EST by jwramp]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
@tnvc or anyone

These are supposed to click together?

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/184182/3A25AD17-4492-4A62-ABD2-4F33434C7D00_jpe-1499147.JPG
View Quote

Most of the time, yes. Bayonets are like snowflakes though... each one a liiiittle bit different.

Edit: also, what’s up with the 27 and 21 you listed for S:N in the specs? Which is it for actual?
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 12:33:01 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 12:46:54 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jwramp:

Most of the time, yes. Bayonets are like snowflakes though... each one a liiiittle bit different.

Edit: also, what’s up with the 27 and 21 you listed for S:N in the specs? Which is it for actual?
View Quote

Reading: 27
Min: 21
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 12:56:36 PM EST
Specs look good
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 12:58:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gopherboy128:
Specs look good
View Quote


Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 1:07:21 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TNVC_Sam:


Affirmative, give it a little
Big of muscle, if it’s still Tight some sand paper to remove some material on the J-arm will do the trick but don’t overdo it
View Quote

I feel like I’m not even close, like this piece is blocking it

Attachment Attached File

@tnvc_Sam
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 1:33:34 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:

I feel like I’m not even close, like this piece is blocking it

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/184182/ECF735FF-95B9-4FC5-A1DC-9C9EDC104F94_jpe-1499206.JPG
@tnvc_Sam
View Quote


Nah that’s not going to block anything. It doesn’t move that far. That’s the magnet for on/off.

You’ll need some sandpaper. Or just sit there and repeatedly slam it into the hole
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 1:38:14 PM EST
Looks like you got a good one. Any blemishes?
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 2:03:46 PM EST
My j arm doesn't attach either. I'll probably get liquored up tonight and bust out the sand paper, files, and dremel, in that order. Luckily I have a couple of j arms that do fit.
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 2:04:10 PM EST
Just these nubs, right?

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 2:16:05 PM EST
No, look and see where it’s making contact. It’ll likely be along the top/bottom corners on the side
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 4:34:49 PM EST
Awesome, glad to see one already delivered. I was in the 1-2wk window so looking forward to stalking the wife around the house with the lights off.
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 4:49:02 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2020 4:51:08 PM EST by Gopherboy128]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History


Found this by accident today, ended up watching a lot of @TNVC_Sam videos on Youtube. Here's videos explaining the specs on tubes. Now I am calm again and feeling good about my purchase from JRH. Had a good chat with Robert at JRH also. If you're in the market for NVDs, take the time to research this stuff first. Thats one thing I already messed up. Now that I have a better understanding of each of the main specs of a tube, I see that FOM isn't the 1 magic number that says how much a tube rocks or sucks!

FOM
NV FOM, slow your roll Karen.


EBI
The most important NV tube spec (IMO)


HALO
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 4:59:46 PM EST
I got the J arm into the norotos with some moderate sanding

I’m honestly not confident in this whole contraption. This is the best of the best for the American warfighter?

Also, I’m having a helluva time getting adjustments in front on my eyeglasses. Let the learning curve begin lol
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 5:03:38 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
I got the J arm into the norotos with some moderate sanding

I’m honestly not confident in this whole contraption. This is the best of the best for the American warfighter?

Also, I’m having a helluva time getting adjustments in front on my eyeglasses. Let the learning curve begin lol
View Quote


Not to be a dick, but Wilcox. My Knight's bridge in the Wilcox G22 is like, premium machining. Fits like a silk-lined glove.
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 5:06:45 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Gopherboy128:


Not to be a dick, but Wilcox. My Knight's bridge in the Wilcox G22 is like, premium machining. Fits like a silk-lined glove.
View Quote

But I’m looking at the g11 and g24
Both still use a J arms right?
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 5:10:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2020 5:20:02 PM EST by Gopherboy128]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:

But I’m looking at the g11 and g24
Both still use a J arms right?
View Quote


RQE J-Arm

I am running my PVS-14 in a bridge, with a FLIR Breach at the same time, so I haven't seen/touched a J-Arm yet to know exactly what you got going on (still waiting on my PVS-14). I am just saying that the quality of parts I have received and used so far, from Wilcox and Knight's, are fucking phenomenal as far as 2 pieces fitting together from 2 separate manufacturers (in any industry, night vision or otherwise).

I guess to go with the Knights J-Arm, you'd need the RQE OSS too, so you're looking at like $600, without the Wilcox mount. I'm really good at spending other peoples' money

Link Posted: 7/11/2020 6:00:38 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By bradpierson26:
But I’m looking at the g11 and g24
Both still use a J arms right?
View Quote

The G11 is a bayonet mount so it will take the standard USGI bayonet J-arm.
The G24 is a dovetail mount so it will take dovetail arms (Wilcox J-arm or Norotos Dual Dovetail Adapter or bridges/binos that use dovetails). The G24 will not take a standard USGI bayonet J-arm.
As for best of the best, everybody has since moved to the dovetails (which are absolutely superior) from the bayonet system.
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 6:15:47 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CDN_Datawraith:

The G11 is a bayonet mount so it will take the standard USGI bayonet J-arm.
The G24 is a dovetail mount so it will take dovetail arms (Wilcox J-arm or Norotos Dual Dovetail Adapter or bridges/binos that use dovetails). The G24 will not take a standard USGI bayonet J-arm.
As for best of the best, everybody has since moved to the dovetails (which are absolutely superior) from the bayonet system.
View Quote


So it's either a $120 Rhino II and included J-arm that wobbles and can fall off or a $450 g24 and $200 j-arm for a tight fit.

NV is expensive.
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 6:48:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MattR:
So it's either a $120 Rhino II and included J-arm that wobbles and can fall off or a $450 g24 and $200 j-arm for a tight fit.

NV is expensive.
View Quote

I mean, Rhino IIs and bayonet J-arms will work, just not well. Always remember to lanyard/dummy cord your NODs regardless of what system you use (even ultra high speed binos on a G24, lanyards are still a good practice especially considering modern mounts have a breakaway feature).

Also, yes, NV is expensive, but the tube is so expensive that the cost of the accessories and batteries for it just seem like noise.
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 7:00:35 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CDN_Datawraith:

I mean, Rhino IIs and bayonet J-arms will work, just not well. Always remember to lanyard/dummy cord your NODs regardless of what system you use (even ultra high speed binos on a G24, lanyards are still a good practice especially considering modern mounts have a breakaway feature).

Also, yes, NV is expensive, but the tube is so expensive that the cost of the accessories and batteries for it just seem like noise.
View Quote


The one plus is that it seems like most of the stuff generally holds a fair value...so you arn't losing too much if you decide to get rid of one system and buy another
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 8:57:54 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2020 8:58:14 PM EST by rlltd42]
Go dovetail, a modded rhino II is the most economical option.  I like the Wilcox dovetail j-arm with the on/off (the geometry is better).  Prowl the EE and see what you can find.

Dovetail is much better than bayonet
Link Posted: 7/11/2020 11:16:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/11/2020 11:19:13 PM EST by TNVC]
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