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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/21/2005 12:11:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/2/2005 2:26:36 PM EDT by metroplex]
While I'm thankful for even getting dealer discounts, the ammo prices at some of the vendors even with the dealer discounts aren't "special". The Sportsman's Guide buyer's club prices are still a bit more attractive, but the Ammo prices keep jumping.

Just this morning, Midway was selling 1000rd of 7.62x39 Wolf for $85 dealer price. Now it's $100 dealer price.
I had to buy almost $200 worth of stuff to even make up for the cost of the C&R license fee.

Some of the vendors on the list are even screwier. They offer discounts for BULK orders (like 1000 sten mag pouches or something) or you have to call Such and Such person to place an order - we don't show you the super secret squirrel price.

And Brownells' discounted prices are the same or higher than Midway's retail prices.

Since the C&R was only $30, I don't consider it a big loss, but had i know the discounts were this shabby I would have passed and just bought the stuff at full price.

None of the C&R firearms interest me since they all have some type of wood or faux wood furniture.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 1:50:15 PM EDT
I would say send your license back to the ATF for a refund, but I don't think they want a soaking wet piece of paper.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 3:10:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 3:12:59 PM EDT by pepperbelly]
The discounts will vary depending on the item, and timing. I have seen discounts as little as .50cents on a book and as much as $60.00 on a barrel. Ammo prices will tend to change up and down, so keep checking.
Also make sure you log in on Midway's site or the discounts won't show.
Don't blow off the old rifles. Many of us buy a Mauser cheap- a Turk for about $60.00, throw the stock and barrel away and make a sporter based on a 98 Mauser action. It can become expensive, but if you have patience you can put a nice rifle together. Right now Midway has 25-06 barrels for $79.00. You have to look around and wait for triggers, etc.
Jim
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 3:16:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 3:17:50 PM EDT by metroplex]
pepperbelly: I thought about that too, after seeing some aftermarket barrels and receivers. However, the ammo appears to be hard to come by or expensive. I.e. 30-06, Swiss GP11, 7.62x54R, etc...
Right now I stock 3 calibers: 9mm Luger, .223 Remington/5.56N, and 7.62x39 which are readily available at decent prices so I can shoot in high volume w/o worrying about diminishing ammo supplies.

Like I said before, the savings on my first order barely made up for the cost of the C&R fee, and there's no sense in asking for a refund for the C&R license.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 3:49:33 PM EDT
Yeah, ammo can be difficult to find, and is FMJ when you do find some. The GP11 is a real problem. That's why most collectors handload.
The milsurp 8mm ammo is cheap enough for blasting away with but isn't very accurate. M2 ball is available and a Garand can shoot anything under 180gr bullets.
It's like shooting my .45acp in competition. I couldn't afford factory ammo as much as I tend to shoot, so I load my own.
Keep checking Midway's site. They have weekly specials as well as other sales.
Later,
Jim
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 3:50:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2005 3:51:15 PM EDT by pepperbelly]
Double post
Jim
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 3:57:21 PM EDT
I saved the money I spent on my license with one order to Brownells, two Goldenrods for gunsafes were a significant part of the savings.

It seems that gunsmithing stuff isn't discounted, while stuff that would normally be sold over the counter at a gun store IS discounted.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:12:16 PM EDT
Some people would bitch if you hung them with a new rope.

I've had my C&R for going on 4 years now (just renewed) and I have saved many times over the cost of the license from Brownells, Midway, Wolff, and Graf & Sons. Sometimes you save a lot, sometimes a little, and depending on item, sometimes none at all. But I'll take any discount they are willing to give me and be damned appreciative of it. A C&R is not a "dealer's" license but a collector's license, so nobody HAS to give you any discount at all, so rather than bite the hand that feeds you you might try showing some appreciation for what discount they do give, no matter how small it may seem to you.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:18:28 PM EDT
So you are saying you do not like having guns shipped directly to your doorstep? Crying over $30 boohoo.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 6:38:18 PM EDT
Metro - I don't usually frequent this forum. I may have missed the history of this post, or of your particular situation.

I think you miss the point of a C&R FFL.
It enables you do to commerce in [certain] firearms and ammo as an FFL.

Think about that. Run off a copy of your license, sign it and mail it to Century with a check. They'll mail you a pistol.

There are very few people who can purchase guns that easily.
Link Posted: 9/21/2005 8:25:19 PM EDT
I'd concur, if Metro got a C&R just so he can get a discount at some places... he's right, it's going to take a while to make your $30 back.


However, if you, say, want to pick up an SKS and a couple K31s from, say, AIM Surplus... you send your signed copy of your C&R, a check, and they send the rifles DIRECTLY TO YOUR DOOR. Cut out that $20+ transfer fee PER WEAPON, OR MORE that your usual dealer charges, and BAM! You just saved 20,40, 60... or more! I've ordered about 7 rifles using my C&R, and at $20 a transfer that my usual dealer charges (which ain't bad), I've saved myself $140.

Link Posted: 9/21/2005 11:25:23 PM EDT
I bought a reloading press, some dies, and tools from Midway. With one order, I saved $86.

That pretty much pays for the C&R twice, almost 3 times RIGHT THERE.

Oh, and add to that the neato little deal that lets guns come to your door, and I just can't find a reason to be unhappy.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 1:48:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2005 3:02:52 AM EDT by metroplex]
My first order saved me about $30, so I sort of got it back. While a Mosin, K31, or Garand look appealing for long range shooting, the ammo is hard to come by. I'm not about to take up a lot of real estate for reloading those cartridges though. I wouldn't mind a Makarov (I found a few C&R pieces) but the mag capacity is limited and I can't seem to find lots of extra mags. Whenever I purchase a weapon system, I think of all the logistics beforehand (mags, ammunition, spare parts, cleaning requirements).

So far the average discount at Midway from what I can see is about 20% (average for my order at least) which isn't bad for a $30 C&R that lasts 3 years.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:08:58 AM EDT
K31 ammo may be hard to find, but M2 for the Garand and 7.62x54R for the Mosin and 8mm for Mausers is everywhere. Korean M2 is good stuff, especially with the PS headstamp. The 7.62x54R and 8mm Mauser can be had all day long for less than 10 cents a round.

I guess the bottom line is that if you're not into C&R rifles, then a C&R licsense probably won't pay off for you.
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 4:45:13 AM EDT
Where may I find 7.62x54R at those prices?
Link Posted: 9/22/2005 8:50:12 AM EDT
Ammoman -
Czech light ball (147gr.) $89 for 780 rounds shipped
Ammunition Store -
Polish light ball (147gr.) $66 for 880 rounds
Albanian light ball (147gr.) $78 for 880 rounds
'Warsaw pact' (brass case) 150gr. $78 for 880 rounds
Hungarian heavy ball (182gr.) 440 rounds for $30, 500 rounds for $60 in ammo can
Yugo (VERY NICE, brass case) 182 gr. $75 for 600 rounds

Sportsman's Guide also has some at similar prices and even 250 rounds linked for PKMs!

You should be able to find most of this stuff at gun shows, too.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 3:06:41 AM EDT
I was about to order some 7.62 X 54R but shipping on ammo for J&G was over $25 per 440 rounds. I picked up at a local gun show for around the same price.

I am rebulding my Springfield USGI and I have saved well over $50 in the last 2 months between Brownells and Midway.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 4:54:06 AM EDT
It seems like they are all surplus/corrosive?
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:45:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/24/2005 11:40:20 PM EDT by Princeton]
Buy just 1 C&R firearm during the 5 3 years the license is good for and you will just about break even since you will save dealer markup.


Oops! concealed carry permit good for 5 years and C&R only good for 3 years.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 8:27:18 AM EDT
Yes, they're all surplus and corrosive. But as discussed in another post, cleaning up after corrosive ammo, even if you're as anal as I am, is easy in a bolt action rifle.

If you want new commercial stuff, expect to pay the same as you would for comprable American hunting rounds from Winchester, Federal, and Remington.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 2:56:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
It seems like they are all surplus/corrosive?



Yes. Most cheap ammo you'll run across for C&Rs will be corrosive.

Link Posted: 9/23/2005 4:17:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:18:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Princeton:
Buy just 1 C&R firearm during the 5 years the license is good for and you will just about break even since you will save dealer markup.



One tiny little correction. The C&R is only good for 3 years.
I save the cost of the license on just about every order I place with Brownells or Midway. I just received a DD 9.5 inch free float 4 rail for my AR and paid $258 verses the $324 MSPR or the $290 as they are being sold on EE. That right there paid for the C&R for another 3 years.
Link Posted: 9/23/2005 5:37:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/23/2005 5:37:58 PM EDT by Ben70]

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Since the C&R was only $30, I don't consider it a big loss, but had i know the discounts were this shabby I would have passed and just bought the stuff at full price.

None of the C&R firearms interest me since they all have some type of wood or faux wood furniture.




Originally Posted By metroplex:
Right now I stock 9mm Luger, .....readily available at decent prices so I can shoot in high volume w/o worrying about diminishing ammo supplies.



First and foremost,

Second - it's unclear from your remarks, but refunds don't exist for the FFL. You gave the money to the government; it has been thrown down a hole in the back yard; it will never be seen again.

Third - you're a flat black plastic people popper kinda enthusaist? Buy glock and AR accessories at brownells, try selling off a few to your buddies if/when they need parts.
Buy a trigger connector and extended release for your G17/19/26 and the money you save evens out the cost of your 03FFL.
Link Posted: 9/24/2005 5:06:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
None of the C&R firearms interest me since they all have some type of wood or faux wood furniture.

How about these? They're C&R and don't have any wood.




Link Posted: 9/24/2005 5:21:31 PM EDT
Wait - grease guns qualify as C&R??!!

For real?
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 5:25:33 AM EDT
Maybe you would not have this "problem" if you had
invested a modicum of time in researching what qualifies
as a C&R instead of using the license as a way to get
50% off discounts.



I vote metroplex as "most likely to put a Dragunov
Fiberforce stock on a M59."
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 6:57:59 AM EDT
I'm afraid you got your C&R for all the wrong reasons. Most folks get one for the nice C&R weapons they can get and have delivered to their door. The discounts offered by a few vendors are just kind of icing on the cake, not the primary reason for having the license. Having said that, I'm sure that at the end of the three year span you will have saved enough to pay for the license many times over.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:00:49 PM EDT

First and foremost,

Second - it's unclear from your remarks, but refunds don't exist for the FFL. You gave the money to the government; it has been thrown down a hole in the back yard; it will never be seen again.

Third - you're a flat black plastic people popper kinda enthusaist? Buy glock and AR accessories at brownells, try selling off a few to your buddies if/when they need parts.
Buy a trigger connector and extended release for your G17/19/26 and the money you save evens out the cost of your 03FFL.



No one was asking about getting a refund for the FFL other than the first person who suggested it as a joke. obviously you have no sense of humor.

Brownells sells crappy scherer accessories for Glock - they're cheap and very attractive but Brownells doesn't carry a lot of Genuine Glock parts (there are plenty of aftermarket though). Midway doesn't carry much in Glock parts, I had to buy my Glock parts elsewhere at good prices though (Glockparts, Lonewolf, etc...) I have all the AR stuff I need.

I managed to save almost $30 with a $160 purchase. I'm waiting for the ammo prices to subside a little before buying more ammo. So far, Midway has the best pricing and customer service. Brownells comes in close though. A lot of the places aren't really worth the 1st class stamp or long distance fee for the fax unless you want their C&R firearms (mostly Nagants / K31s that you see everywhere anyhow).

The C&R overall is pretty decent for the discounts, I should have gotten one earlier when I was buying a lot of firearms stuff. Now I just mainly need ammunition.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:03:29 PM EDT
Also, it really depends on how you're calculating how much money you saved.

For example:
Glock 18 33rd mags retail for $30 a piece. The C&R takes a hunk out of that, BUT there are ARFCOM vendors selling those for $25 a piece. So in order to calculate an accurate estimate of your savings, you have to compare the dealer price with the lowest price you can find (NOT the retail price).

I bought a Streamlight LED lamp for $22 which retails for $32. I could buy the same lamp for $25 at Amazon. I didn't save $10, I saved $3. That's BIG difference when you add everything up.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:21:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/26/2005 3:21:43 PM EDT by Sigurd]
Buy optics from Midway.


I saved $160 on my Leupold Mark 4 and $45 on my Aimpoint.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:23:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCynic:
I vote metroplex as "most likely to put a Dragunov
Fiberforce stock on a M59."



I'm keeping the stock furniture on my Vepr.
Link Posted: 9/26/2005 3:36:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
I'm keeping the stock furniture on my Vepr.



OK, you are slightly forgiven if the furniture is wood.

Sorry if I came across as harsh, but I consider the C&R
to be a collector's license. I just don't want the ATF to
eliminate it because many people are getting the license
for ancillary reasons.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 3:57:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheCynic:

Originally Posted By metroplex:
I'm keeping the stock furniture on my Vepr.



OK, you are slightly forgiven if the furniture is wood.

Sorry if I came across as harsh, but I consider the C&R
to be a collector's license. I just don't want the ATF to
eliminate it because many people are getting the license
for ancillary reasons.



Well, actually it's "fiberglass" (glass reinforced polymer, aka in popular terms , fiberglass).
I may have to get at least 1 C&R pistol per family member just in case the SHTF and they need a secondary firearm.
Link Posted: 9/27/2005 12:42:16 PM EDT
A good deal from Midway on XM855PD ammo, SS109 5.56 62gr steel penetrator, shipped loose/bulk, retail $189.99/1000 + shipping, C&R $149.99/1000 + shipping. Compare other XM855PD prices at the Ammo Price List.
Link Posted: 10/2/2005 10:55:32 AM EDT




Quit whining. The C&R FFL is not, nor was it intended to be your global firearms discount card accepted everywhere.

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