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Posted: 6/28/2015 7:58:45 PM EDT
I've shot my Tavor suppressed quite a bit, and even with safety glasses, sometimes the gas coming from under the top rail is unbearable, especially with 5.56 ammunition.  I haven't taken a Tavor chasis down, only basic field strip.  Is there any way to seal off any places towards the rear of the top rail?  I already have an MI ejection port cover.
Link Posted: 6/28/2015 9:59:26 PM EDT
Can't tell you the places where gas escapes on a Tavor, but I have a friend who is a suppressor fiend...won't hardly shoot most rifles unsuppressed.  He sold his Tavor due to this issue even though he really liked the rifle.  He still has an RFB .308.  Not sure of the things he tried to keep the Tavor, but he reluctantly sold it.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 3:07:27 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ARTNC10:
Can't tell you the places where gas escapes on a Tavor, but I have a friend who is a suppressor fiend...won't hardly shoot most rifles unsuppressed.  He sold his Tavor due to this issue even though he really liked the rifle.  He still has an RFB .308.  Not sure of the things he tried to keep the Tavor, but he reluctantly sold it.
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Silly. Cheap side plate takes care of 99% of the gas problems.

OP, try taking off your rail and look around, see if you can figure out what's happening. This is not a problem on mine when shot suppressed, and not common in general. First i've heard of it. Maybe call IWI.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:01:17 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By ShadowAngel:


Silly. Cheap side plate takes care of 99% of the gas problems.

OP, try taking off your rail and look around, see if you can figure out what's happening. This is not a problem on mine when shot suppressed, and not common in general. First i've heard of it. Maybe call IWI.
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Originally Posted By ShadowAngel:
Originally Posted By ARTNC10:
Can't tell you the places where gas escapes on a Tavor, but I have a friend who is a suppressor fiend...won't hardly shoot most rifles unsuppressed.  He sold his Tavor due to this issue even though he really liked the rifle.  He still has an RFB .308.  Not sure of the things he tried to keep the Tavor, but he reluctantly sold it.


Silly. Cheap side plate takes care of 99% of the gas problems.

OP, try taking off your rail and look around, see if you can figure out what's happening. This is not a problem on mine when shot suppressed, and not common in general. First i've heard of it. Maybe call IWI.


I have Gear Head's blockoff plate on my Tavor, and there is still the faint, acrid gunpowder odor that's stronger than any other firearm I own...even with any quality ammo.  Now, when I say "faint", I mean very subtle and not disconcerting.  However, I can see how those with a suppressor might have a really annoying level of gas/odor.  No, I haven't fired a suppressed Tavor.  I have a Steyr NATO AUG and get no such odor.  I do not find this difference problematic on the Tavor for me personally, but I'm betting it's something to consider on a suppressed version.  I think the gas is coming right out of the ejection port, but I can't put my finger on why it should be any different than the AUG.  Others have experienced the same thing with the Tavor, so I don't think my observation, the OP's, or my friend's suppressed experience are anomalies.  Again...I point out that this is quite subtle on my unsuppressed Tavor and not a problematic issue...even over a recent 2-day school with hundreds of rounds fired.  But it is there compared to my other firearms shooting the same ammo.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 1:55:35 PM EDT
ran multiple Tavors suppressed and you are correct the gas escapes just past the end of the rail between the metal and the top of the stock body. I put a patch of silicone on one of mine and it cured the problem of getting a tavor Powder mustache... just my $0.02
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 6:59:46 PM EDT
Consider getting an OSS suppressor...that will pretty much eliminate this problem.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 7:51:03 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ARTNC10:


I have Gear Head's blockoff plate on my Tavor, and there is still the faint, acrid gunpowder odor that's stronger than any other firearm I own...even with any quality ammo.  Now, when I say "faint", I mean very subtle and not disconcerting.  However, I can see how those with a suppressor might have a really annoying level of gas/odor.  No, I haven't fired a suppressed Tavor.  I have a Steyr NATO AUG and get no such odor.  I do not find this difference problematic on the Tavor for me personally, but I'm betting it's something to consider on a suppressed version.  I think the gas is coming right out of the ejection port, but I can't put my finger on why it should be any different than the AUG.  Others have experienced the same thing with the Tavor, so I don't think my observation, the OP's, or my friend's suppressed experience are anomalies.  Again...I point out that this is quite subtle on my unsuppressed Tavor and not a problematic issue...even over a recent 2-day school with hundreds of rounds fired.  But it is there compared to my other firearms shooting the same ammo.
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Originally Posted By ARTNC10:
Originally Posted By ShadowAngel:
Originally Posted By ARTNC10:
Can't tell you the places where gas escapes on a Tavor, but I have a friend who is a suppressor fiend...won't hardly shoot most rifles unsuppressed.  He sold his Tavor due to this issue even though he really liked the rifle.  He still has an RFB .308.  Not sure of the things he tried to keep the Tavor, but he reluctantly sold it.


Silly. Cheap side plate takes care of 99% of the gas problems.

OP, try taking off your rail and look around, see if you can figure out what's happening. This is not a problem on mine when shot suppressed, and not common in general. First i've heard of it. Maybe call IWI.


I have Gear Head's blockoff plate on my Tavor, and there is still the faint, acrid gunpowder odor that's stronger than any other firearm I own...even with any quality ammo.  Now, when I say "faint", I mean very subtle and not disconcerting.  However, I can see how those with a suppressor might have a really annoying level of gas/odor.  No, I haven't fired a suppressed Tavor.  I have a Steyr NATO AUG and get no such odor.  I do not find this difference problematic on the Tavor for me personally, but I'm betting it's something to consider on a suppressed version.  I think the gas is coming right out of the ejection port, but I can't put my finger on why it should be any different than the AUG.  Others have experienced the same thing with the Tavor, so I don't think my observation, the OP's, or my friend's suppressed experience are anomalies.  Again...I point out that this is quite subtle on my unsuppressed Tavor and not a problematic issue...even over a recent 2-day school with hundreds of rounds fired.  But it is there compared to my other firearms shooting the same ammo.


The AUG releases excess gas up at the gas block, I believe. The Tavor doesn't do this, so that's probably the difference you're experiencing. I've run my Tavor nearly exclusively suppressed and gas has not been an issue at all.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 9:53:57 PM EDT
No gas issues running an M4-2000 on my Tavor.
Link Posted: 6/29/2015 11:44:15 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ShadowAngel:


The AUG releases excess gas up at the gas block, I believe. The Tavor doesn't do this, so that's probably the difference you're experiencing. I've run my Tavor nearly exclusively suppressed and gas has not been an issue at all.
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Originally Posted By ShadowAngel:
Originally Posted By ARTNC10:
Originally Posted By ShadowAngel:
Originally Posted By ARTNC10:
Can't tell you the places where gas escapes on a Tavor, but I have a friend who is a suppressor fiend...won't hardly shoot most rifles unsuppressed.  He sold his Tavor due to this issue even though he really liked the rifle.  He still has an RFB .308.  Not sure of the things he tried to keep the Tavor, but he reluctantly sold it.


Silly. Cheap side plate takes care of 99% of the gas problems.

OP, try taking off your rail and look around, see if you can figure out what's happening. This is not a problem on mine when shot suppressed, and not common in general. First i've heard of it. Maybe call IWI.


I have Gear Head's blockoff plate on my Tavor, and there is still the faint, acrid gunpowder odor that's stronger than any other firearm I own...even with any quality ammo.  Now, when I say "faint", I mean very subtle and not disconcerting.  However, I can see how those with a suppressor might have a really annoying level of gas/odor.  No, I haven't fired a suppressed Tavor.  I have a Steyr NATO AUG and get no such odor.  I do not find this difference problematic on the Tavor for me personally, but I'm betting it's something to consider on a suppressed version.  I think the gas is coming right out of the ejection port, but I can't put my finger on why it should be any different than the AUG.  Others have experienced the same thing with the Tavor, so I don't think my observation, the OP's, or my friend's suppressed experience are anomalies.  Again...I point out that this is quite subtle on my unsuppressed Tavor and not a problematic issue...even over a recent 2-day school with hundreds of rounds fired.  But it is there compared to my other firearms shooting the same ammo.


The AUG releases excess gas up at the gas block, I believe. The Tavor doesn't do this, so that's probably the difference you're experiencing. I've run my Tavor nearly exclusively suppressed and gas has not been an issue at all.


Yeah, I knew both of these rifles are obviously piston designs, but I didn't really think about where the Tavor exhausts.  Apparently the gas venting within the stock causes a little of it to waft into other areas of the gun...and then out.  I guess maybe that's why Steyr vented their port up front and outside of the stock.
Link Posted: 7/15/2015 3:37:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Sparks556:
ran multiple Tavors suppressed and you are correct the gas escapes just past the end of the rail between the metal and the top of the stock body. I put a patch of silicone on one of mine and it cured the problem of getting a tavor Powder mustache... just my $0.02
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Mr Sparks, could you post a pic illustrating your solution to the Tavor face?
Funds are not available for an OSS suppressor set up.
Thanks
Link Posted: 7/19/2015 11:11:01 AM EDT
I'd also like to see a pic of the "patch" since my Liberty Constitution kicks a fair amount of gas back thru there...
Link Posted: 7/20/2015 4:54:12 PM EDT
Sorry guys just got back from the mountains I'll try and snap some pics Tonight
Link Posted: 7/21/2015 5:41:20 PM EDT
Waiting impatiently but I understand. I still can't post pics!
Link Posted: 7/24/2015 10:30:03 AM EDT
I just used tape
And tape over the port door too
Link Posted: 7/24/2015 1:44:02 PM EDT
Black electrical, blue painter's?
I've got packing tape out the ass.
Link Posted: 7/24/2015 3:08:00 PM EDT
duct tape/variant thereof.  Something that is semi durable, with good adhesive, and can be form fitting.

Although, I will say, if I had an open tube of rtv laying around, I would have used that.   Either way, it works. Not cool guy pretty fancy, but I'm a cheap bastard.
Link Posted: 7/24/2015 6:46:54 PM EDT
Join the club!
I'm just looking for pics so I can see where to "rtv".
I think I'll try the tape route first.
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 1:17:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2015 1:29:06 AM EDT by Sparks556]
Ok tried to get pics were you can actually see were I put the silicone but it is down by the crack and doesn't really look like anything... I can post the pics were it is with a arrow but pretty sure you guys already know the spot... So I kinda  failed you all in this pic fix.. my brother in law took a magpul rail cover and notched the ends and used the section to over lap that area and silicones it to the plastic and it worked great plus it's not a full gun modification.. Some guys at the local shoots were running just a patch of duck tape on the back... It is weird though I have 5 Tavors and only one leaves a Tavor mark on my cheek the others are good to go..
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 3:51:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2015 1:29:53 AM EDT by Sparks556]
Ok so this is some picks I got you can see the diffenerce... One has a little bit bigger gap nothing crazy but just enough to give you that nice little Tavor stash..
The green one you can see some blue tint from the suppressed blow back.. I took a tooth pick and some automotive sealant and packed it down between the stock and the metal receiver... Then wiped it up and made it look clean..now this helped a bunch but as you can see the blue tint is new blow back from after I did the silicone so it is probably going to keep getting worse...




The camo one has the smaller gap


The od green one has the blue tint from the gas coming back


So on this topic my brother in laws have huge issues with blow back on there face.. We run and gun for a bit and they look like they have black war paint on there faces.. Even with my green Tavor I never had more then just a smudge..So what is the difference well they would get all pissed thinking it was the gun and cans fault for their painted faces but i started thinking about it.. And found a huge difference....lube... What lube your running and how much? Now before we get into this to much hear is my sparks556 disclaimer ( I have had this discussion before on this web site and what started as a few cool guys talking about what they love and things that work for them... It got ugly and stupid really fast so before we talk personal preference let's keep it fun and open minded) ok haha so the big difference was lube..I shoot a lot... In Wyoming we shoot a little in the nice weather side of the house but most the crazy shooting is fall and winter so when I choose a lube I left the oil and frog lube or slip 2000 side of the house long ago.. While these are fantastic products and I still use them occasionally on some of my ars I use the local napa majic.... lubriplate no 105 other wise used on engine assembly...

So when we went shooting last time I watched my brothers wet there isralie girls up like they we're running a Haley class... Well you put that much oil and slickem in there it's got to go somewhere... So we ran some drills and their safety glasses looked like a speckled mess.... So I laughed and pitched them my greese idea.... They at first were like no way... But got them talked into it so we cleaned there guns off and ran some lubriplate on the gun.. A few hundred rounds later they were believers.... They still had a little cheek blackness but at least they were not eating the smoke and oil splatter....plus when we went home all that oil doesn't end up in the Tavor butt plate....so just another $0.02 that could help you guys.. Hope that helped I'll try and get a pic of the rail cover cap thing my buddy made...
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 7:40:14 PM EDT
Thank you so much mr sparks.
It was 100 here today so it will be a while before I hit the range but will definitely be using your idea.
Link Posted: 7/25/2015 7:47:02 PM EDT
One more question: why five tavors? I understand, one's good, two's better, there's wonderful but five?
I have two: 16.5" and 18".
But, I understand if you found deals and had cash handy.
Link Posted: 7/26/2015 12:55:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2015 1:41:12 AM EDT by Sparks556]
Lol....the answer to that question is..kids...I have one set up for cqb and one for out in the hills with a 1-6 scope for myself because I really like the gun ergonomics ... The other three are for my two daughters and son.. Granted they are four,two,and one month out ... Lol but I got them Tavors and Glock 19s and ammo just figured I had the money freed up and as crazy as this country is getting I wanted to get them a solid rifle...and pistol for later in life.. Just planning ahead.. It's a lot of money but better get them now while we can... My wife prefers augs and the bcm light weight ars so she didn't want a Tavor.. but seriously they are a great rifle for just about everything....

I had five smaller vary petite woman come out to the range separately and shoot a bcm lightweight ar, a ak74, a aug,  and a Tavor... Had them do mag changes and work threw some drills and work the guns... I had to have them shoot each separately and alone without any comments from me or the other girls so each could give me a true assessment of the one they like the best and fit them... The aug got voted the most comfortable. The ar second and Tavor and ak close behind... But when it came to balance and shooting in a cqb situation from room to room Openning doors and driving...they all decided on the Tavor.. It was a vary long and indepth process to pic guns for my girls.. There is really no useful info on woman shooters and guns...which is starting to change slowly... So it took me a bunch of test and evaluation before I made the leap into the wallet... But was well worth it...my oldest is four and she already can field strip hers... It's cute.

And sorry about the horrible grammar and some goofy words hear and their it's my iPhone's auto correct adding it's own taste to my posts...drives me crazy...




My wife running mine...she wanted to try the srs...you can see baby three getting his ears use to gun fire..
Link Posted: 7/26/2015 1:51:49 PM EDT
You're a good Dad and husband. I wish I had space for that kind of lifestyle!
Link Posted: 7/26/2015 4:14:05 PM EDT
Thanks for the pics and the explanation.  Noted and thread bookmarked
Link Posted: 8/24/2015 12:08:23 PM EDT
OP, I have the exact same problem with my Tavor and AAC suppressor. I use CLP as my lubricant and federal ammo.  My last range trip got so bad I had to stop shooting suppressed altogether. My glasses were covered in speckles and the gas was overpowering. I contacted IWI to see if this was a known issue or if they had any suggestions. They said they hadn't heard of this issue and that I could try some tape to seal that area.  I haven't had a chance to apply any fixes yet but I'm glad I found this thread and that I'm not the only one.
Link Posted: 8/24/2015 1:30:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/24/2015 1:32:26 PM EDT by xdmikey]
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Originally Posted By ShadowAngel:


Silly. Cheap side plate takes care of 99% of the gas problems.

OP, try taking off your rail and look around, see if you can figure out what's happening. This is not a problem on mine when shot suppressed, and not common in general. First i've heard of it. Maybe call IWI.
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Originally Posted By ShadowAngel:
Originally Posted By ARTNC10:
Can't tell you the places where gas escapes on a Tavor, but I have a friend who is a suppressor fiend...won't hardly shoot most rifles unsuppressed.  He sold his Tavor due to this issue even though he really liked the rifle.  He still has an RFB .308.  Not sure of the things he tried to keep the Tavor, but he reluctantly sold it.


Silly. Cheap side plate takes care of 99% of the gas problems.

OP, try taking off your rail and look around, see if you can figure out what's happening. This is not a problem on mine when shot suppressed, and not common in general. First i've heard of it. Maybe call IWI.


Yes. Silly. I put an MI side plate on mine and had no issues but I may not have had issues before; first time with suppressor. PMC great, Tula & WPA stronger smell and with one of those(the rounds looked identical)I could see a little trail of smoke rising after I set the rifle down. All ammo was 223.

PMC was six o'clock hold but commie was 12 o'clock. All minute of clay at ~25yds.

eta
I have an 18" Tavor.
Link Posted: 8/24/2015 1:31:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ACR223:
OP, I have the exact same problem with my Tavor and AAC suppressor. I use CLP as my lubricant and federal ammo.  My last range trip got so bad I had to stop shooting suppressed altogether. My glasses were covered in speckles and the gas was overpowering. I contacted IWI to see if this was a known issue or if they had any suggestions. They said they hadn't heard of this issue and that I could try some tape to seal that area.  I haven't had a chance to apply any fixes yet but I'm glad I found this thread and that I'm not the only one.
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Did you get a new side plate? $40 fix in my experience.
Link Posted: 8/24/2015 10:37:09 PM EDT
Yup, I got the new side plate after the first time I fired it suppressed.  It sealed up the side port great but now the gas from behind the top rail is even worse now that I have blocked another exit point for the gas.  I wonder if there is some other way to port the excess gas out?  If I seal up the area behind the top rail with silicone or tape the only other area I notice carbon deposits are generally inside the magazines.  Could a modification be made near the mag well that could divert some of the excess gas that way?  It's interesting that some users don't have any issue with this but others do.  What could be the difference in the rifles? I know of other folks on here and the bullpup forum who use AAC cans and don't seem to have nearly the issues that myself and the OP do.
Link Posted: 8/24/2015 11:35:53 PM EDT
I use an AAC can, but I'm using an SDN-6, so it's got a little extra volume over a dedicated 5.56 can. So that probably makes a little difference.
Link Posted: 8/25/2015 5:07:02 PM EDT
I also have the SDN-6. I'm hopping that the tape fix will help. I plan a tearing it down and looking in that are and figuring out a more permanent solution than tape. I have a spare tube of clear silicone from some bathroom work that may do the trick.
Link Posted: 8/29/2015 3:21:55 PM EDT
For starters, I have an 18" tavor.
My only leak at the top was with Tula/WPA ammo; no issues with pmc bronze 223.
I brought my saker 762 but forgot my mitt and couldn't wait for it to cool off to switch with my 556 saker!
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 1:28:17 PM EDT
So I finally disassembled my Tavor to look for the gas leak.  I took off the top rail and noticed a excessive amount of carbon build up underneath the rear area of the top rail.  I noticed about an eigth inch gap at the rear where most of the build looked like it came from and smaller gaps to either side.  I plan on cleaning the area up good and then sealing it with some tape as a temporary fix.  If this fixes the problem then I will seal it with clear silicone as a more permanent fix.

Does anyone else have these gaps on their rifles?

Does anyone think sealing this area would affect the function of the rifle?
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 1:28:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2015 1:34:50 PM EDT by ACR223]


Top rail removed.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 1:30:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2015 1:36:05 PM EDT by ACR223]


Carbon around rear of top rail.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 1:31:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2015 1:36:52 PM EDT by ACR223]


Left side ejection port covered with minimal to no leakage.
Link Posted: 8/31/2015 1:32:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/31/2015 1:38:19 PM EDT by ACR223]
I am also going to pull the barrel off and look at the area from the other side before I seal anything up.  Waiting for my barrel wrench from IWI.
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