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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 3/3/2017 1:54:33 PM EDT
I have been saving my pennies for months and I'm approaching a place where I could, potentially, purchase a bullpup. I had my heart set on the X95, but the accuracy inconsistencies have soured me a bit. I don't care if it is an MOA gun, but for nearly 2k it needs to be a 2-3 moa gun, not a 2-3 moa "usually" gun.

I have a few criteria which limit my selection.

1) MUST be left hand ergonomic. Not just a gun with a deflector that make it OK. I cannot physically shoot right handed, so this is a must.

2) Needs to be 5.56. I'm set up for this caliber in my economy of scale.

3) I would strongly prefer it take NATO mags. I have plenty and don't really want to sink several hundred in more mags when the gun itself is going to be a stretch.

That's about it. Can you give me first hand thoughts and experiences with these guns:

Tavor SAR
Tavor X95
Keltec RDB


Any others that I should be considering? Are there guns coming out I might want to hold out for?
Link Posted: 3/3/2017 2:14:51 PM EDT
You could add the fs2000 to your list, but I don't find it ergonomic at all. With your limitations, may want to try out the guns before buying.
Link Posted: 3/3/2017 2:22:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2017 2:43:15 PM EDT by Chowser]
My ten year old is a leftie. The longest distance on our range is 200 feet. Using a red dot he can hit headshots all day long. That's accurate enough for us. It's not a magnified optic bolt gun. It's a battle rifle.

Ok. Caveat.
It has a Manticore buttpad, Geissele trigger and trigger pack and an AAC 762SDN6 suppressor on it.

I don't understand why people keep thinking this gun is supposed to snipe quarters at distance. Even with the original trigger I was still able to make headshots during quals at distance. We have a bolt action with magnified optic when we want to hit quarters at distance.
Link Posted: 3/3/2017 3:15:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2017 7:03:41 PM EDT by VASCAR2]
I have an early Tavor SAR and it shoots 69 grain Sierra Match Kings good enough I took it to Wyoming and shot prairie dogs using a 2.5-10 scope. I used the factory trigger and I actually missed very few dogs but limited my shooting to about 175 yards or less. I have since added a Geissele Super Sabra trigger pack. I am still using a red dot sight as I feel the Tavor shines in quick off hand shooting. My Tavor has been completely reliable and totally combat accurate. My Tavor shoots better than my old Mini 14 185 series but not quite as accurate as my 16" AR-15's. The AR-15's are more consistent in the groups they shoot. I think the Tavor is hampered by the gas piston design and light barrel. My Tavor can keep all hits on a steel man sized silhouette target to 300 yards with 55 grain bulk 5.56/223. The individual groups vary, one group might be 3/4" and the next group might be 2" with the same ammo. The Tavor is not as easily shot off a bench compared to my AR-15's.

I like the ergos on the Tavor SAR and even like the magazine release. If your left handed the SAR or X95 are very user friendly. I bought my SAR without ever firing a Tavor. I haven't regretted buying my Tavor and have AR-15's I'd sell before my Tavor. I had handled AUG's but the ergos just didn't work for me. It seems the population is about evenly split, half like the AUG best while about half prefer the Tavor.
Link Posted: 3/3/2017 6:12:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2017 7:33:01 PM EDT by AubrayJ]
The AUG, with a left handed bolt, is pretty LH friendly, but the CH remains on the left side.

The Tavor SAR is completely convertible for LH use (as is the optional 9mmP kit) and is well designed and manufactured. It's one of the few rifles that's simpler in design and maintenance than an AK, which is impressive in itself.

The RDB has potential, but Kel-Tec's continued use of customers as beta testers doesn't inspire confidence
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_43/475040_Brand-new-RDB-is-broken-after-about-70-rounds-.html

AJ
Link Posted: 3/3/2017 6:45:10 PM EDT
From my experience with my x95 I firmly believe the accuracy claims are blown out of proportion or some guns are worse than others.

With an aimpoint micro on it I coyote hunt with it and havent missed. I know thats not punching holes on paper but this isnt a bench gun anyways.
Link Posted: 3/3/2017 8:14:14 PM EDT
Considering your left hand bent, go with the SAR.  In lieu of the AUG, for you the Tavor SAR has many different advantages and it is a good weapon.
Link Posted: 3/16/2017 1:17:19 PM EDT
I recently held an X95 at a local shop and to tell you the truth I was not impressed with the so called "ergonomics and improvements" for us American shooters when it comes to bullpups. As I haven't held the original SAR in years I seem to like that setup way more than the new X95. Sure the X95 has a lot of real-estate to add all sorts of gizmos and what not but IMO the SAR setup is perfect in my hands at least. I don't know...maybe I'm just a purist and prefer the way the original weapon was intended from the get go.
Link Posted: 3/16/2017 1:21:57 PM EDT
The latest X95 appear to have better accuracy than the earlier ones per reports on the interweave. I prefer my SAR over my X95, but the SAR has a bunch of aftermarket Parks on it.
Link Posted: 3/17/2017 7:49:54 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Aussie_E:
The latest X95 appear to have better accuracy than the earlier ones per reports on the interweave. I prefer my SAR over my X95, but the SAR has a bunch of aftermarket Parks on it.
View Quote
Can you point me to some of these new reviews?
Link Posted: 3/21/2017 6:15:26 PM EDT
My X95 was purchased last November. My sample of one does not have the accuracy issues that the early guns had. I've read on line that the accuracy issues have been taken care of with the newer guns.
Link Posted: 3/22/2017 8:43:01 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By B-trash:
My X95 was purchased last November. My sample of one does not have the accuracy issues that the early guns had. I've read on line that the accuracy issues have been taken care of with the newer guns.
View Quote
If you could point us in the direction of some of these references it would be very helpful.
Link Posted: 3/22/2017 9:18:09 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By LarryLove:


If you could point us in the direction of some of these references it would be very helpful.
View Quote
Link Posted: 3/23/2017 1:27:43 AM EDT
Have a SAR and a X95. They're both fantastic guns.
Link Posted: 3/30/2017 6:29:07 PM EDT
Just bumping this. Folks are saying the new X95s are better accuracy-wise. Anyone have evidence of this?
Link Posted: 3/30/2017 8:27:31 PM EDT
I'm waiting on the Kel Tec RDB Survival.
Link Posted: 3/30/2017 10:25:48 PM EDT
^^good idea^^
Link Posted: 3/31/2017 1:18:56 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Salvadorsshadow:
Just bumping this. Folks are saying the new X95s are better accuracy-wise. Anyone have evidence of this?
View Quote
And if it's true: What should be done to the earlier ones to match?
Link Posted: 3/31/2017 4:11:51 PM EDT
Supposedly IWI will re crown the older ines if requested
Link Posted: 3/31/2017 4:19:34 PM EDT
I have the SAR and an AUG.

I like shooting the AUG better because, well, I just like it better.  It feels "smoooother" somehow.

But being left handed makes the SAR the better "go to war" gun for me.

The AUG wears a Aimpoint T2 now.
Link Posted: 4/2/2017 2:10:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/2/2017 2:11:52 PM EDT by CopM4]
Toss Up

I prefer the Tavor SAR over the X95. The angle of the 95 grip just seems to put my arm at an
awkward angle and I prefer the charging handle position on the SAR.
That said I prefer the mag release of the SAR - position and function over the AR15 style of the X95. .I own an early SAR The difference between a SAR and a 95 is "preference" and not
"Improvements."

I love my AUGA3 ...from an engineering point of view the AUG is incredibly strong/overbuilt.
I prefer the Steyr mags over STANAG - yes, the AR style mags are cheaper but I like the bolt release of the A3 stock

Kel-Tec -
Please. - Not even a consideration.
Link Posted: 4/2/2017 5:28:34 PM EDT
I'd so get an X95, if it didn't have troubles with inconsistent groupings
Link Posted: 4/2/2017 8:33:41 PM EDT
I held an SAR again this past week. The last time I held one was about 4 years ago or so. I definitely like the feel over the X95. To me the forend on the X95 just doesn't feel right. I like the angle of the SAR's stock foregrip and just feels more natural. Besides you're suppose to hold the Tavor a certain way anyways and not like how most of us hold any other AR platform.
Link Posted: 4/3/2017 8:21:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/3/2017 8:27:14 AM EDT by spydercomonkey]
Originally Posted By Salvadorsshadow:
I have been saving my pennies for months and I'm approaching a place where I could, potentially, purchase a bullpup. I had my heart set on the X95, but the accuracy inconsistencies have soured me a bit. I don't care if it is an MOA gun, but for nearly 2k it needs to be a 2-3 moa gun, not a 2-3 moa "usually" gun.

I have a few criteria which limit my selection.

1) MUST be left hand ergonomic. Not just a gun with a deflector that make it OK. I cannot physically shoot right handed, so this is a must.

2) Needs to be 5.56. I'm set up for this caliber in my economy of scale.

3) I would strongly prefer it take NATO mags. I have plenty and don't really want to sink several hundred in more mags when the gun itself is going to be a stretch.

That's about it. Can you give me first hand thoughts and experiences with these guns:

Tavor SAR
Tavor X95
Keltec RDB


Any others that I should be considering? Are there guns coming out I might want to hold out for?
View Quote


I would get the Tavor SAR over the X95. Better accuracy reports, and looks cooler.
Link Posted: 4/3/2017 12:22:18 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By CopM4:

I love my AUGA3 ...from an engineering point of view the AUG is incredibly strong/overbuilt.
I prefer the Steyr mags over STANAG - yes, the AR style mags are cheaper but I like the bolt release of the A3 stock

Kel-Tec -
Please. - Not even a consideration.
View Quote
The Aug bolt release is on the left side of the rifle, correct?
Link Posted: 4/3/2017 1:29:18 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Salvadorsshadow:


The Aug bolt release is on the left side of the rifle, correct?
View Quote
It is.

Link Posted: 4/4/2017 8:21:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Salvadorsshadow:
I have been saving my pennies for months and I'm approaching a place where I could, potentially, purchase a bullpup. I had my heart set on the X95, but the accuracy inconsistencies have soured me a bit. I don't care if it is an MOA gun, but for nearly 2k it needs to be a 2-3 moa gun, not a 2-3 moa "usually" gun.

I have a few criteria which limit my selection.

1) MUST be left hand ergonomic. Not just a gun with a deflector that make it OK. I cannot physically shoot right handed, so this is a must. RDB Out of the box ready to go no need to have it converted or find a "lefty Model".

2) Needs to be 5.56. I'm set up for this caliber in my economy of scale. RDB in 556 nato.

3) I would strongly prefer it take NATO mags. I have plenty and don't really want to sink several hundred in more mags when the gun itself is going to be a stretch. RDB even comes with a 20 Rd Gen 3 PMAG.

That's about it. Can you give me first hand thoughts and experiences with these guns:

Tavor SAR Haven't shot one.

Tavor X95 Haven't shot one. But it is the better of the IWI Bullpups due to the magazine release. Safety for me was weird.

Keltec RDB Realistically its a $1000.00 rifle tax and all. Just start looking around and putting out the word you want one. But don't pay over $920.00 plus tax. Mine has been fun and will be my go to gun when Surefire figures out what they are going to do with the XC1 I sent them with the issue of intermittent operation and eating batteries.

Any others that I should be considering? Are there guns coming out I might want to hold out for?
View Quote
Link Posted: 4/4/2017 5:08:39 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By dntama:
Supposedly IWI will re crown the older ines if requested
View Quote
I'm not saying you're wrong, but where did you hear this?
Link Posted: 4/11/2017 9:18:00 AM EDT
Apparently IWI re-crowned/changed the crown in the barrel of the X95 around the same time they changed the bolt from a single ejector to twin ejectors. Most of my information has come from posts on bullpupforum.com and M4Carbine.net. The internet being the internet, take what you read with a grain of salt.

People are guessing at the serial number range when this change was made. I do know that my FDE X95 purchased in November is in the T0060xxx serial number range and has the new bolt. My personal sample of one does not show erratic grouping issues and the accuracy is sub 3 MOA. With my preferred carry load, it's closer to 2 MOA.

My X95 is difficult to bench rest due to the nature of a bull pup vs shooting a 16" AR. While my X95 will not replace all of my 16" AR's as a general purpose firearm, it does offer me the same benefits that one would get using a SBR, without the legal paperwork of owning a registered SBR. Especially when traveling from state to state.

Inside of a building is where my X95 shines over using one of my 16" AR's. The compactness when moving down halls, stairs and around corners is easy to understand. But a huge benefit is the balance rearward when using the gun one handed as you open doors, grab family members and guide them, ect. with your non-dominant hand. I did a walking drill with my X95, going forward form 15 yards to about 10 yards, firing with my dominant hand only as I went forward. I fired about as fast as I could reacquire the dot on my optic. Walking and shooting with one hand, the group could be covered with my fist.

I initially regretted buying the X95, as I first couldn't think of what it could do that I couldn't do with one of my existing AR's. But now, I'm very leased with the purchase. What it does well, it does very well.

Mine isn't going anywhere in the near future...
Link Posted: 6/23/2017 12:58:33 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amd_dude:
I'm not saying you're wrong, but where did you hear this?
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By amd_dude:
Originally Posted By dntama:
Supposedly IWI will re crown the older ines if requested
I'm not saying you're wrong, but where did you hear this?
This whole accuracy/grouping/crowning thing seems to have fallen off the radar here.

Was it all just www. hyperbole?
Link Posted: 6/23/2017 9:36:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2017 9:37:06 PM EDT by SolarFlare]
I've been having the same dilema... SAR vs X95 vs RDB. I held the x95 and rdb tonight. the rdb did not feel any lighter than the x95, and the rdb felt cheaply made, especially the butt plate. I haven't held the SAR, but I liked the X95 enough that I'll be getting one tomorrow (just a matter of FDE or black, lgs doesn't have ODG...). I was torn because I want to put a silencer on it and given the reports about the two, it made it hard to decide...until I held each of them. I'll take my chances with the x95 and any gas issues.
Link Posted: 6/24/2017 9:35:08 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By B-trash:
Apparently IWI re-crowned/changed the crown in the barrel of the X95 around the same time they changed the bolt from a single ejector to twin ejectors. Most of my information has come from posts on bullpupforum.com and M4Carbine.net. The internet being the internet, take what you read with a grain of salt.

People are guessing at the serial number range when this change was made. I do know that my FDE X95 purchased in November is in the T0060xxx serial number range and has the new bolt. My personal sample of one does not show erratic grouping issues and the accuracy is sub 3 MOA. With my preferred carry load, it's closer to 2 MOA.
View Quote
Somewhere between T0049559 and your T0060XXX. old bolt at 4:23
Link Posted: 6/24/2017 9:46:42 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SolarFlare:
I've been having the same dilema... SAR vs X95 vs RDB. I held the x95 and rdb tonight. the rdb did not feel any lighter than the x95, and the rdb felt cheaply made, especially the butt plate. I haven't held the SAR, but I liked the X95 enough that I'll be getting one tomorrow (just a matter of FDE or black, lgs doesn't have ODG...). I was torn because I want to put a silencer on it and given the reports about the two, it made it hard to decide...until I held each of them. I'll take my chances with the x95 and any gas issues.
View Quote
Black RTV sealant and an MI port door cover fixed most of gassing issues for me when running suppressed with the SAR. I also RTV'd the gas cylinder where is meets the back of the rail, readily fixed any remaining gas issues!
Link Posted: 6/24/2017 10:48:15 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By usnpjs:


Black RTV sealant and an MI port door cover fixed most of gassing issues for me when running suppressed with the SAR. I also RTV'd the gas cylinder where is meets the back of the rail, readily fixed any remaining gas issues!
View Quote
What can are you using? I am thinking about putting either my Saker 556K and a Rugged Razor on it.
Link Posted: 6/24/2017 11:15:37 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By SolarFlare:


What can are you using? I am thinking about putting either my Saker 556K and a Rugged Razor on it.
View Quote
AAC 762-SDN-6
Link Posted: 7/3/2017 4:49:48 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By usnpjs:
Black RTV sealant and an MI port door cover fixed most of gassing issues for me when running suppressed with the SAR. I also RTV'd the gas cylinder where is meets the back of the rail, readily fixed any remaining gas issues!
View Quote
@usnpjs

Do you have any pics of where you applied the RTV?

My X95 with Specwar 556K is a gassy beast.
Link Posted: 7/11/2017 3:37:25 PM EDT
I can only shoot left handed and went with the SAR.

I am about to change the charging handle back to the left side as well. My right arm/ wrist doesn't have the strength nor the flexibility to charge the rifle. Right know im rotating the rifle 90 degrees to charge it with ny left hand or reaching over the top to charge it.
Link Posted: 7/11/2017 3:41:00 PM EDT
There were some initial concerns with the X95, but those were addressed, and the latest model X95s have still more improvements, like a double extractor, etc. They are good to go. You should head over to the Bullpup Forum which is the source for all things Bullpup.

X95 is GTG
Link Posted: 7/12/2017 1:54:07 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By strat81:


@usnpjs

Do you have any pics of where you applied the RTV?

My X95 with Specwar 556K is a gassy beast.
View Quote
I honestly keep forgetting when I'm at home, but I will try!
Link Posted: 7/13/2017 4:49:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By strat81:


@usnpjs

Do you have any pics of where you applied the RTV?

My X95 with Specwar 556K is a gassy beast.
View Quote


Link Posted: 7/13/2017 6:22:09 PM EDT
RDB or Steyr
Link Posted: 7/14/2017 9:59:18 AM EDT
Much appreciated, thank you for the pics.
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