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10/20/2017 1:01:18 AM
9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/9/2005 11:45:18 AM EDT
I dont know what it is about it but when I see one I want one. Why would I want one as opposed to an AR or a 5.56 AK?
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 11:47:14 AM EDT
IMO, the only advantage an AR has over a HK93 is availability of inexpensive parts.

AN AK in 5.56 is OK, but still just another AK.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 12:02:13 PM EDT
The V93 or HK 33 is an excellent rifle. They were used by SEALS in Vietnam and its bigger brother the G3 has been performing as one of the best battle rifles on the planet and is still fighting hard today. It is a very robust and reliable weapon. Its certainly one of the best 5.56 rifles availible. They are also very accurate and the sights are awesome. The only reason not to buy one, IMO, is the increased weight and increased cost of the weapon and its accessories such as magazines, which are still fairly expensive. Also, mounting an optic is less ideal than mounting one on an AR, especially a flat top.If I could get a V93 with telescopic stock for 900 bucks Id buy it for sure. I really like these weapons, however I wouldnt buy one unless I already had an AR.

5.56 Ak's are senseless to me as they exagerate the deficiencies of this round and magazines are also an issue. If you like Aks and 5.56 buy a Galil. This is an excellent hybrid of several different weapons which offers you superior sights compared to an AK, improved accuracy and magazines are very affordible and availble. Initial cost will be equal to a V93. A Robinson M96 may also be a consideration if you want to be different and don't want an AR. I hated AR's and thought they were so generic...I quickly learned that they are everywhere because there is nothing better and your money goes much farther than buying some other type of weapon.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 12:11:13 PM EDT

Some of the older ones are trash you can spot in 30 seconds. The newer ones tend to be better.

Look at the welds, if they look bad throw it back. If good, keep looking. Any obvious cracks or problems. Is the stock loose or tight? Insert a magazine. Did it go in? If so, remove it. Does it come out or is it stuck? If you are trying to get a lower price remove and install the rear stock. Every one I know of has a too large receiver and the stock gets stuck. It does not seem to hurt reliability so it's not a deal killer, just be aware of it and try to get a better price because of it.

If you find one that passes these basic tests it should be good to go and is a great little rifle. If it's off, don't buy it.

I've heard great things and bad things about the company. YMMV, so make sure you pick a good working gun from the start. I've seen a few that looked like puke. I've also shot a couple that looked great and ran like HK champs.

Also be aware many or all of the "HK" parts are not actual German HK but were made in Asia.

Before shooting check the headspace with a feeler gauge. If it's wrong have Vector send you a new set of rollers to get it in spec or send the rifle in for repair.

Be prepared for expensive magazines and a rough trigger. The trigger can be improved for $50, which is middle ground for mags prices as well.

They have 1/7" twist barrels which make them far better for heavy ammo than the old 1/12" twist HK93s.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 5:28:03 PM EDT
I love my V93.This is one of the HK clones I would highly recommend.
Link Posted: 9/9/2005 9:24:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Robert2011:

Also be aware many or all of the "HK" parts are not actual German HK but were made in Asia.




Can you expand on this?

Link Posted: 9/10/2005 4:10:46 AM EDT
Vector uses Malaysian parts kits and their receiver.

There are a bunch of HK33 Malaysian parts kits that were imported a few years ago. They are OK... made on HK licensed machinery.... similar to Portugese and Greek made parts.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 8:05:34 AM EDT
I know this has probably been beat to death but what optics mount would be best for an ACOG? B&T? I found this thread which is quite interesting. HERE.

Also are there mag pouches that work well with the 40 round mags?
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 7:40:19 PM EDT
I will preface this by stated I am an HK addict, so I may be a bit biased. I bought a Vector 53 w/ a 16inch barrel. I later sold it. They cosmetically look nice, and are close to an HK in appearance, but don't really hold a candle to the real thing. Cosmetically, they do look pretty good, but I had a few issues with mine. Reliability was not 100%. It was decent, but it would hiccup every 100 rounds or so. I also did not like the fact the the inside if the receiver has no finish to it. The outside is painted black and looks nice but the inside of mine was steel in the white. Furthermore, the receivers aren't 100% spec and putting a collapsible HK stock on it was a pain in the butt that was only accomplished with the help of a rubber mallet. Those were my main complaints.

As for comparing my HK93 to an AR, 93's are definitely heavier than AR's and I even think they recoil slightly more. Also, if you thought an AR got dirty from shooting, good luck with HK roller-lock weapons. They are dirty as pigs after shooting. Parts are also expensive.

With all that, I love my 93. Damn if they aren't one finely engineered rifle. As with most HK's it is 100% reliable and goes bang every time I pull the trigger. I can honestly say that HK is the only company whose product I have never had a malfunction with. Ever.

If you end up going for the HK, my advice would be to save up for the real thing. Vector's are what, $1300? I just saw a 93 on HKPRO for $1950 shipped with both A2 and A3 stock. The damn A3 stock costs about $300. When I am spending that much anyway, I'd rather spend a couple hundred bucks extra and get the real deal. Just my 2 cents.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 8:10:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taipan:
I know this has probably been beat to death but what optics mount would be best for an ACOG? B&T? I found this thread which is quite interesting. HERE.



The B&T mount is the best I have found (Stay away from the cheap airsoft version that pops up now and then). I used a LaRue Acog mount mount on mine. It's a little high, but I never found a low mount for an Acog with the built-in M16 mount and at most it would only lower it 1/4". I think an Acog without the M16 mount could mount lower.

That thread does not appear correct to me. That's looks like a Tacpoint with the included Tacpoint mount. I tried one just like that and do not remember getting a cowitness. I think it's just a camera illusion, but it's late and I don't feel like putting a TP on just to verify.
Link Posted: 9/10/2005 8:24:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HunterRose:
Reliability was not 100%. It was decent, but it would hiccup every 100 rounds or so...

...Furthermore, the receivers aren't 100% spec and putting a collapsible HK stock on it was a pain in the butt that was only accomplished with the help of a rubber mallet. Those were my main complaints.




In over 1000 rds of mostly cheap Wolf I had only one failure when a friend was shooting. I'm not sure what the failure was because he cleared it faster than I could walk 5 feet to see. It was also using an aftermarket 40 rd steel mag at the time.

For the collapsible stock I found that collapsing it forward and sliding the rails forward as it was being installed greatly eased it on for 3/4 ths of the travel. For the final push I would retract the stock a few inches and slam it closed, which would also push it into the receiver. No mallet was needed.

Later I tried a full size HK93 stock and it was not only a pain to get on, but took 70+ bolt slaps to finally get it off.

I hope they fix the receivers, but they will probably run out of parts kits to build these with before that happens. Hopefully they will start making all new parts in the USA because it would be a shame to let this design disappear from the scene again.
Link Posted: 9/11/2005 8:12:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Taipan:
I dont know what it is about it but when I see one I want one. Why would I want one as opposed to an AR or a 5.56 AK?



Vogarms has a Vector 93 for $900. Was at the PDX show this weekend. Just go buy the damm thing.
CH
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 1:05:40 AM EDT
So that's what happened to our Tiga-Tigas (HK33). Those rifles were adopted to replace the L1A1(British FAL) in the Malaysian Army in the early 70s. They were used for a relatively short time and weren't popular with the troops and the leadership and were quickly replaced by Colt M16A1s.
The HK33s were stored for many years as a war reserve but we finally go round to disposing of them obviously. The M16A1s were themselves replaced by AUGs in the last 10 years.

They were HK guns I think though they could ahve been RO builds.

You are confusing them with the Thai produced HK33 whioch is a substitute standard for the thai military. The HK33 is issued to Border Guard(Tahan Fran) and Police. The Thai Army uses mainly a variety of ARs but has allsorts form Chicom AKS to G36s.

No compleeing reason to buy the 33 IMO when you can get an AR. Much more flexible, much more product development and much more support. Think life cycle with stuff like magazines, replacement parts, accessories. Then again want and reason need not meet.


Link Posted: 9/12/2005 4:26:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SimonTan:
So that's what happened to our Tiga-Tigas (HK33). Those rifles were adopted to replace the L1A1(British FAL) in the Malaysian Army in the early 70s. They were used for a relatively short time and weren't popular with the troops and the leadership and were quickly replaced by Colt M16A1s.
The HK33s were stored for many years as a war reserve but we finally go round to disposing of them obviously. The M16A1s were themselves replaced by AUGs in the last 10 years.

They were HK guns I think though they could ahve been RO builds.

You are confusing them with the Thai produced HK33 whioch is a substitute standard for the thai military. The HK33 is issued to Border Guard(Tahan Fran) and Police. The Thai Army uses mainly a variety of ARs but has allsorts form Chicom AKS to G36s.

No compleeing reason to buy the 33 IMO when you can get an AR. Much more flexible, much more product development and much more support. Think life cycle with stuff like magazines, replacement parts, accessories. Then again want and reason need not meet.





Wow interesting perspective and info.....Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 7:06:28 AM EDT
Incidentally the Thais prefer M16s (and even Bushys) over the HK33.

Simon
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 9:58:15 AM EDT
Mostly because the M16 is the most prolific NATO platform...

The IBM/Microsoft platform is more prolific than Apple, but it doesn't mean that Apple computers are inferior...
Link Posted: 9/12/2005 10:05:47 AM EDT

I thought the 1/7" twist barrels were not made until the 1980's.

I don't see any markings on my barrel.
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 2:07:53 AM EDT
No....they actually prefer them. Units who can carry their choice of gear now carry M4s or rather Bushy M4gerys. The HK33 is manufactured in Thailand. They have to import the ARs.

Rebarrelled? The HK33 in the MAF were set up with 1 in 12 for M193.

Simon
Link Posted: 9/13/2005 11:07:36 AM EDT
I have a V93, a couple AR's and a couple of AK's in .223 built on bulgy parts. I prefer the AR and AK over the V93 for one reason, availability of inexpensive parts. I will probably sell my V93 once the next AWB has been in effect for a few years and make a nice little profit


Link Posted: 9/14/2005 9:09:11 AM EDT
I'll bet half the reason the Thai's prefer the M16/M4 platform is the weight savings. The Thai's are not a large statured people. My 93 gets heavy after an hour or two of shooting, and I'm 6'5"/230 and in pretty good shape.

Link Posted: 9/14/2005 2:52:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HunterRose:
I'll bet half the reason the Thai's prefer the M16/M4 platform is the weight savings. The Thai's are not a large statured people. My 93 gets heavy after an hour or two of shooting, and I'm 6'5"/230 and in pretty good shape.




Dang I'm way more Thai sized.....I remember my RPK74 would wear me out shooting it, I couldn't imagine carrying it around day in and day out for miles of marching.
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