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9/17/2020 5:59:48 PM
Posted: 4/28/2015 10:31:01 PM EDT
Just had this pop into my head, What happens if you have a suppressor home build or from a company and say it gets ruined? Lets just say it gets run over by a truck, tank or whatever. What happens to the tax stamp?
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 10:35:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By troy7548:
Just had this pop into my head, What happens if you have a suppressor home build or from a company and say it gets ruined? Lets just say it gets run over by a truck, tank or whatever. What happens to the tax stamp?
View Quote

Step 1: don't tell the internet.
I'll let you figure the rest out.
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 10:40:28 PM EDT
I don't own a suppressor I live in Iowa and we can't have them yet I was just wondering?
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 10:46:52 PM EDT
This thread makes me sad. Thoughts of destroyed suppressors even before they are born...
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 10:48:23 PM EDT
Is there a way to transfer a stamp to a new suppressor?
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 10:50:05 PM EDT
We loose thousands of hundreds of noise cancelers before they are berfed every day!
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 10:50:45 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By troy7548:
Is there a way to transfer a stamp to a new suppressor?
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If you can keep a secret the world is your huckleberry!
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 11:12:14 PM EDT
Form1 can, nothing you can do spend another $200 and build another

Form1 can, depends. If it is a warranty issue most manufacturers will take care of you, if not - well there is nothing you can do.
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 11:41:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 12:10:44 AM EDT by SandWMandP15Tee]






Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By crazyelece:
Form1 can, nothing you can do spend another $200 and build another
Form4 can, depends. If it is a warranty issue most manufacturers will take care of you, if not - well there is nothing you can do.
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FIFY






 
Link Posted: 4/28/2015 11:53:00 PM EDT
This forum has really gone downhill. A lot of non-technical or incorrect answers. And some that encourage lawbreaking. If the serialized component of a silencer is truly ruined, it is completely done, and you cannot transfer the stamp to another NFA device. You must notify the ATF in writing that the device has been destroyed and that they should remove it from the NFRTR.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:02:02 AM EDT

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Conqueror:


This forum has really gone downhill. A lot of non-technical or incorrect answers. And some that encourage lawbreaking. If the serialized component of a silencer is truly ruined, it is completely done, and you cannot transfer the stamp to another NFA device. You must notify the ATF in writing that the device has been destroyed and that they should remove it from the NFRTR.
View Quote




 
This. It sucks, but these are the rules we have to play by. Suppressors are considered "lifetime purchases" because of the resale value, not because they were intended to last a lifetime. Manufacturers have strived to make them as serviceable and durable as possible - but sometimes bad luck, in the form of a baffle strike leading to a irreparable tube, happens.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 12:35:10 AM EDT
Write  a letter to ATF for an answer.

It's real easy, pay another $200 for either a F1 or F4 unit.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:56:04 AM EDT
I think if a truck ran over my form 1 build it would be a bad time... for the truck. I'm not even sure a tank would phase the thing. Maybe a direct nuclear blast?
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:18:37 AM EDT
Assuming it was from a manufacturer other than yourself, I believe the manufacturer can replace it with the same serial number when the old one is destroyed. If it's a form 1? Cut it in half rebuild to same specs? Or acks the ATF..
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 4:00:05 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By fridge72:
Assuming it was from a manufacturer other than yourself, I believe the manufacturer can replace it with the same serial number when the old one is destroyed. If it's a form 1? Cut it in half rebuild to same specs? Or acks the ATF..
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Nope...serialized part is destroyed, you get to pay for a new one, tax stamp and all....used to not be the case, but you can thank Gemtech for this.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 7:54:24 AM EDT
Really you can thank AAC for it. They were doing things that the ATF would obviously disapprove of, it was only a matter of time before they got busted.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 7:59:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 7:59:43 AM EDT by STJ]
The manufacture may replace the supressor at low/no cost but you will have to submit another form 4 and $200.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 8:36:59 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By goloud:
This thread makes me sad. Thoughts of destroyed suppressors even before they are born...
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SUPPRESSOR ABORTION
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 8:57:09 AM EDT
I agree that no one should promote lawbreaking here.

As for the "technical forum" issues, this question in particular is a far cry from a request for real assistance. The poster, who doesn't own a suppressor, or live in a state that allows them (yet) asks a question about a mythical suppressor that is destroyed beyond repair and it's associated $200 transfer or making tax.

We are pretty far from a real technical question, so I'd expect a few humorous answers.

To the OP: If real disaster strikes your future suppressor, know that most people here will give you an honest and legal answer to your questions.

Just because this is a tech forum doesn't mean it has to be free from humor.


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Conqueror:
This forum has really gone downhill. A lot of non-technical or incorrect answers. And some that encourage lawbreaking. If the serialized component of a silencer is truly ruined, it is completely done, and you cannot transfer the stamp to another NFA device. You must notify the ATF in writing that the device has been destroyed and that they should remove it from the NFRTR.
View Quote

Link Posted: 4/29/2015 9:17:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 9:21:29 AM EDT by chase45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Conqueror:
Really you can thank AAC for it. They were doing things that the ATF would obviously disapprove of, it was only a matter of time before they got busted.
View Quote


Wasn't Gemtech the ones who brought this to light to the bipolar ATF while AAC was just rebuilding cans?

Logic dictates to me that if I have a suppressor that is damaged it could and should be repaired. I mean its a freaking metal tube for Christ sake. I have heard of Glock simply mailing you back a complete firearm, not going through a FFL, when a frame is trashed.

But were dealing with the ATF who change their mind like a women going through menopause so.

ETA

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1741281_How_long_does_your_GLOCK_warrantee_last__23__years_.html
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 9:26:48 AM EDT
If an SOT can "repair" the suppressor, you're good to go. I've seen people repair stuff that I assumed was a goner.

So I guess your question's answer depends on the size of the truck.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 9:49:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By troy7548:
Just had this pop into my head, What happens if you have a suppressor home build or from a company and say it gets ruined? Lets just say it gets run over by a truck, tank or whatever. What happens to the tax stamp?
View Quote


Same thing that happens to the tax stamp on a bottle of whiskey that gets ruined.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 10:16:48 AM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By goloud:
I agree that no one should promote lawbreaking here.

As for the "technical forum" issues, this question in particular is a far cry from a request for real assistance.
OP had a serious question......a technical question regarding NFA regulations.
He received stupid ass responses suggesting illegal activity.


The poster, who doesn't own a suppressor, or live in a state that allows them (yet) asks a question about a mythical suppressor that is destroyed beyond repair and it's associated $200 transfer or making tax.
Irrelevant. It's a valid question no matter where you live.
Using your theory, Californians should never ask questions about Barretts, machine guns and other evil firearms.


We are pretty far from a real technical question, so I'd expect a few humorous answers.
Horseshit.
OP asked a damned good question. "Humorous" should equal funny, not illegal.


To the OP: If real disaster strikes your future suppressor, know that most people here will give you an honest and legal answer to your questions.
Apparently not.

Just because this is a tech forum doesn't mean it has to be free from humor.
True.
But suggesting illegal acts isn't a damned bit funny.
View Quote





Link Posted: 4/29/2015 10:41:07 AM EDT
I guess you missed my first line. The rest of my post was directed at everything but breaking the law.

The wrong side of the bed: you woke up on it.

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:





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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
Originally Posted By goloud:
I agree that no one should promote lawbreaking here.

As for the "technical forum" issues, this question in particular is a far cry from a request for real assistance.
OP had a serious question......a technical question regarding NFA regulations.
He received stupid ass responses suggesting illegal activity.


The poster, who doesn't own a suppressor, or live in a state that allows them (yet) asks a question about a mythical suppressor that is destroyed beyond repair and it's associated $200 transfer or making tax.
Irrelevant. It's a valid question no matter where you live.
Using your theory, Californians should never ask questions about Barretts, machine guns and other evil firearms.


We are pretty far from a real technical question, so I'd expect a few humorous answers.
Horseshit.
OP asked a damned good question. "Humorous" should equal funny, not illegal.


To the OP: If real disaster strikes your future suppressor, know that most people here will give you an honest and legal answer to your questions.
Apparently not.

Just because this is a tech forum doesn't mean it has to be free from humor.
True.
But suggesting illegal acts isn't a damned bit funny.






Link Posted: 4/29/2015 10:56:01 AM EDT
It's (the $200) basically a fancy sales tax. I wouldn't expect Texas to give me back my 8.25% if I broke something I bought in state, same sort of thing. Logic need not apply to taxes, we should all know that by now...just the words of the law/tax code apply.

Logically destroying a tube and replacing it with an identical (or different even) tube with the same serial in a one-for-one exchange without paying the fee for a new one seems "fair."  But the government considers that to be you taking $200 out of their pocket (even though in reality it's just keeping $200 in yours, which they should support) so they stick to the letter of the law and their interpretations of the letter of the law.

You can certainly replace a form 1 can and maybe nobody will know, but that is illegal and if you are caught you are boned, so don't. Same reason I will patiently wait for my form 1 to come back before I buy a foregrip and stock for my MP5 pistol. Would I get caught on private land and storing those items separately?  Probably not. But if I did, well that just isn't a risk worth taking to me and I would advise anyone against it.  The law and the ATF's stance are very clear in these respects, and even if we don't agree with them we have to follow them. And if we don't agree with them, we should actively be working to get the legislative branch of our government to set out some different guidelines for the executive branch to follow.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:03:08 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By goloud:
I guess you missed my first line. The rest of my post was directed at everything but breaking the law.

The wrong side of the bed: you woke up on it.
View Quote

I didn't miss jack shit.
You minimized the OP's question as "...a far cry from a request for real assistance" and "...pretty far from a real technical question".
And then you excuse those who posted the illegal advice as "humorous".





Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:19:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 4/29/2015 1:21:29 PM EDT by ikickhippies]
If it's a Form 1 can then you're on your own. Just like how YOU built the can on your own. You send in a a destruction letter telling ATF that it exploded/ ran over by a steam roller/ was a comedy pilot on the CW- whatever.

If it is a Form 4 can it's up to the manufacturer, but the same SN cannot be transferred to a new can. Everybody wants to play the Blame Game between AAC and Gemtech 10 years ago. ATF did not approve of moving SN's around the exact same way that they don't approve of using Sig Braces as stocks.

Best case they take pity on you and hook you up with a free can (but you still have to pay $200 for the new Form 4) and they will send a destruction letter to ATF, of which you will get a copy. Worst case they'll tell you that you are SOL. Middle case is that they might sell you a new can direct at a discount, but that $200 stamp applies to anything new.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:52:03 PM EDT
Just for a thought exercise, I'll throw this out there:

I know that by the letter of the law, if you built your own can via Form 1, and that can gets ruined, you can't legally make another can with the same serial number.

However, how is that even enforceable?


I am NOT advocating that anyone do this, but, if you got an approved Form 1, and you, built your can, made of your raw material, using your tools, how could anyone prove that you didn't take a previously ruined can, destroy it, and build one identical to the original.  It is extremely likely that anyone with a basic understanding of the Form 1 process would have no issues doing it undetected even under the closest scrutiny.


Again, I know that would be in clear violation of the NFA, but I ask again, how would that be even close to enforceable?


Link Posted: 4/29/2015 1:53:49 PM EDT
Jack Shit didn't post in this thread, so there. How's that for humor?

My first post was humorous (to me) and I was commenting on my post alone.

It's not a stupid question, but there is so much that can happen from now until the OP can own a suppressor let alone destroy one that answering it now makes no logical sense.

Argue all you want, but don't put words in my mouth. There are posts in this thread that are funny that have nothing to do with breaking the law. Everyone here who actually knows me has the common sense to realize I'd never condone breaking any local, state or federal laws.

Or just put me on ignore you surly bastard. (Again. Humor)


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:

I didn't miss jack shit.
You minimized the OP's question as "...a far cry from a request for real assistance" and "...pretty far from a real technical question".
And then you excuse those who posted the illegal advice as "humorous".





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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DogtownTom:
Originally Posted By goloud:
I guess you missed my first line. The rest of my post was directed at everything but breaking the law.

The wrong side of the bed: you woke up on it.

I didn't miss jack shit.
You minimized the OP's question as "...a far cry from a request for real assistance" and "...pretty far from a real technical question".
And then you excuse those who posted the illegal advice as "humorous".






Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:20:51 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:

I am NOT advocating that anyone do this, but, if you got an approved Form 1, and you, built your can, made of your raw material, using your tools, how could anyone prove that you didn't take a previously ruined can, destroy it, and build one identical to the original.  It is extremely likely that anyone with a basic understanding of the Form 1 process would have no issues doing it undetected even under the closest scrutiny.

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They have ways of making you talk.....
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 2:30:38 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Just for a thought exercise, I'll throw this out there:

I know that by the letter of the law, if you built your own can via Form 1, and that can gets ruined, you can't legally make another can with the same serial number.

However, how is that even enforceable?


I am NOT advocating that anyone do this, but, if you got an approved Form 1, and you, built your can, made of your raw material, using your tools, how could anyone prove that you didn't take a previously ruined can, destroy it, and build one identical to the original.  It is extremely likely that anyone with a basic understanding of the Form 1 process would have no issues doing it undetected even under the closest scrutiny.


Again, I know that would be in clear violation of the NFA, but I ask again, how would that be even close to enforceable?


View Quote



I wouldn't trust my o-ring to a jury of 12 in my county... Especially with something as intricate as NFA device ownership.

Best to not tempt the Bubbaz.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 3:04:50 PM EDT
Everyone calm down.


The answer is simple.

You are out at least $200 and you need to start over.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 11:32:25 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Just for a thought exercise, I'll throw this out there:

I know that by the letter of the law, if you built your own can via Form 1, and that can gets ruined, you can't legally make another can with the same serial number.

However, how is that even enforceable?


I am NOT advocating that anyone do this, but, if you got an approved Form 1, and you, built your can, made of your raw material, using your tools, how could anyone prove that you didn't take a previously ruined can, destroy it, and build one identical to the original.  It is extremely likely that anyone with a basic understanding of the Form 1 process would have no issues doing it undetected even under the closest scrutiny.


Again, I know that would be in clear violation of the NFA, but I ask again, how would that be even close to enforceable?


View Quote


Most people get caught by someone else telling on them. Ex with an axe to grind, a "friend" that uses his knowledge to get himself out of trouble, etc. you get the idea.
Link Posted: 4/29/2015 11:36:01 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SandWMandP15Tee:
FIFY  
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Originally Posted By SandWMandP15Tee:
Originally Posted By crazyelece:
Form1 can, nothing you can do spend another $200 and build another

Form4 can, depends. If it is a warranty issue most manufacturers will take care of you, if not - well there is nothing you can do.
FIFY  



Thanks I missed that one.

Also to explain further by manufactures taking care of you, the ATF doesn't care who gives them $200. If a manufacturing defect causes unrepairable damage, it is not unheard of for them to step up and get you another. But yes this would involve a new serial# and new form 4
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 12:41:41 AM EDT
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Originally Posted By crazyelece:


Most people get caught by someone else telling on them. Ex with an axe to grind, a "friend" that uses his knowledge to get himself out of trouble, etc. you get the idea.
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Originally Posted By crazyelece:
Originally Posted By orpheus762x51:
Just for a thought exercise, I'll throw this out there:

I know that by the letter of the law, if you built your own can via Form 1, and that can gets ruined, you can't legally make another can with the same serial number.

However, how is that even enforceable?


I am NOT advocating that anyone do this, but, if you got an approved Form 1, and you, built your can, made of your raw material, using your tools, how could anyone prove that you didn't take a previously ruined can, destroy it, and build one identical to the original.  It is extremely likely that anyone with a basic understanding of the Form 1 process would have no issues doing it undetected even under the closest scrutiny.


Again, I know that would be in clear violation of the NFA, but I ask again, how would that be even close to enforceable?




Most people get caught by someone else telling on them. Ex with an axe to grind, a "friend" that uses his knowledge to get himself out of trouble, etc. you get the idea.

I'd venture to say most get caught while committing some other, usually more flagrant and non-victimless crime.
Link Posted: 4/30/2015 1:24:13 AM EDT

I had a F4 can pop.

Serial number section was undamaged. I sent it back to the manufacturer for a rebuild.

You'd be in quite the pickle if you damaged the SN. To me, I'd rather just pay an extra $200 and sleep good at night than wander into some gray area of NFA land.

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