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Posted: 12/16/2010 9:44:01 AM EDT
If one wishes to add one of the above rifles to a collection which one would most choose? Are the "quality issues" spoken with reference to the STG/ E4 real or unfounded. Is the A3 a "better" gun? A3 out of production for around 2G's or STG can be found for close to 1/2 that.All input greatly
appreciated.
Link Posted: 12/16/2010 9:56:54 AM EDT
[#1]
Personally I chose Steyr.  You are not gonna find many Steyr owners who regret paying what they did.  They are superb guns, and I have been extremely happy with mine.  That said, there are plenty of happy MSAR owners too...





...Seriously this question is like a "Ford vs Chevy" thing.  All you are gonna get is alot of opinion and arguing

 
Link Posted: 12/16/2010 11:52:55 AM EDT
[#2]
If you can afford the Steyr A3 and extra mags then I would definitely buy one.  For the time being production has stopped and it's hard to say when or if they will ever be available again.

If money is tight there is absolutely no reason not to get a MSAR.
Link Posted: 12/16/2010 12:05:02 PM EDT
[#3]
I have both.
If I were to choose one, it would be the Aug A3: its been more reliable than my MSAR E4.
My Aug A3 has 3 stocks:  regular, NATO,  and also an E4 stock.  I also have an MSAR E4.  4000 rounds thru each of the bull pup receivers.  my favorite is the A3 receiver with E4 stock,  MSAR match trigger, FN barrel 1:7 . never had a malfunction. Took it  through 2 carbine classes.
My E4 has had a few FTF/FTE every few hundred rounds.   I wouldn't bet my life on it.  that's just my personal experience from owning and shooting both bull pups.
Link Posted: 12/16/2010 12:08:05 PM EDT
[#4]
If you have the money get the AUG.  If you don't get the MSAR.
Link Posted: 12/16/2010 12:34:03 PM EDT
[#5]


Depends are you looking at buying a rifle and keeping it pretty much stock?



As far as I know Steyr never made any new barrels for the A3 other than the 16" stock barrels that came with them so you're limited to pre-import ban Steyr barrels if you want to do other lengths and those aren't cheap. Then there is the whole parts count, I'm not messing with an A3 so I don't concern myself with parts count, but if you get one you'll have to pay attention to it since the older barrels are Austrian.



You can get vertical foregrip rails for both, but the Inventure Concepts tri-rail will only fit the STG/E4 rifles.



A lot of different aftermarket rail options for the STG/E4 rifles as well from a host of different companies some of them very affordable, but a lot of Steyr folks are probably happy with the stock A3 rail, which is pretty nice.



If you get an E4 and you want an STG style stock for those 42 rounders you just swap them out and you don't lose your side bolt release.



The MSAR E4 is a bit more flexible when it comes to sling options as well thanks to the rear flank rails.



So it depends what you want to do really. I'd give a slight edge to the A3 for barrel, bolt carrier, and very slight edge in receiver quality, but you're paying a lot for that.



I guess the biggest thing is whether you want AR mag or AUG mags. I'm not a fan of the Steyr NATO stock, because I do dig my side bolt release on my STG. If I went with the Steyr A3 I'd keep it with the AUG mags and would NOT put on a NATO stock, but that's me. Not to mention if you go with the NATO stock you're uping the price you're paying for the A3 and pushing the $2K mark really easy.



You missed out though. If you had purchased an E4 before the 15th you would have got a $200 rebate. I don't know if they've extended that, but I'd call and ask on the off chance that they have.  







Link Posted: 12/16/2010 12:43:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
If one wishes to add one of the above rifles to a collection which one would most choose? Are the "quality issues" spoken with reference to the STG/ E4 real or unfounded. Is the A3 a "better" gun? A3 out of production for around 2G's or STG can be found for close to 1/2 that.All input greatly
appreciated.


Steyr A3  and never look back.
Link Posted: 12/16/2010 12:44:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
I have both.
If I were to choose one, it would be the Aug A3: its been more reliable than my MSAR E4.
My Aug A3 has 3 stocks:  regular, NATO,  and also an E4 stock.  I also have an MSAR E4.  4000 rounds thru each of the bull pup receivers.  my favorite is the A3 receiver with E4 stock,  MSAR match trigger, FN barrel 1:7 . never had a malfunction. Took it  through 2 carbine classes.
My E4 has had a few FTF/FTE every few hundred rounds.   I wouldn't bet my life on it.  that's just my personal experience from owning and shooting both bull pups.


How does the E4 stock work on the A3 Steyr?  Does the bolt release work?

To weigh in on this, I would say either gun is great.  I have two MSARs, but will probably get a Steyr too.
Link Posted: 12/16/2010 1:13:55 PM EDT
[#8]
Just get the A3. It will save you a lot of headaches plus the pride of Steyr ownership will be yours.
Link Posted: 12/16/2010 2:28:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted:
Quoted:
I have both.
If I were to choose one, it would be the Aug A3: its been more reliable than my MSAR E4.
My Aug A3 has 3 stocks:  regular, NATO,  and also an E4 stock.  I also have an MSAR E4.  4000 rounds thru each of the bull pup receivers.  my favorite is the A3 receiver with E4 stock,  MSAR match trigger, FN barrel 1:7 . never had a malfunction. Took it  through 2 carbine classes.
My E4 has had a few FTF/FTE every few hundred rounds.   I wouldn't bet my life on it.  that's just my personal experience from owning and shooting both bull pups.


How does the E4 stock work on the A3 Steyr?  Does the bolt release work?

To weigh in on this, I would say either gun is great.  I have two MSARs, but will probably get a Steyr too.


The bolt hold open is stock/pack dependent and has nothing to do with the receiver.  MSAR's bolt catch will allow for bolt hold open on empty, manual bolt release, but not manual BHO.  Steyr's A3 will do all of the above.
Link Posted: 12/16/2010 2:43:43 PM EDT
[#10]
I owned 2 MSAR's. Got rid of them and purchased a Steyr A3 and couldn't be happier.
Link Posted: 12/16/2010 4:06:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Steyr 100%

As an MSAR owner I really regret purchasing this thing. At least with a Steyr you can sell or trade it if you want. No one wants an MSAR and the value has dropped by 500+ dollars randomly.
Link Posted: 12/16/2010 5:48:05 PM EDT
[#12]
Sabre Defence makes the A3 barrels, here is some food for thought.



http://www.fandmmag.com/web/online/Web-Exclusives/Honing-in-on-Success/20$1479
Link Posted: 12/16/2010 6:30:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
I have both.
If I were to choose one, it would be the Aug A3: its been more reliable than my MSAR E4.
My Aug A3 has 3 stocks:  regular, NATO,  and also an E4 stock.  I also have an MSAR E4.  4000 rounds thru each of the bull pup receivers.  my favorite is the A3 receiver with E4 stock,  MSAR match trigger, FN barrel 1:7 . never had a malfunction. Took it  through 2 carbine classes.
My E4 has had a few FTF/FTE every few hundred rounds.   I wouldn't bet my life on it.  that's just my personal experience from owning and shooting both bull pups.


That rifle you speak of is/was one bad ass weapon.  Probably the coolest set up I have seen.   Glad to hear you are getting good use out of it.  

DR
Link Posted: 12/16/2010 6:37:06 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Sabre Defence makes the A3 barrels, here is some food for thought.



http://www.fandmmag.com/web/online/Web-Exclusives/Honing-in-on-Success/20$1479


That is a great article.  MSAR honed all of their barrels with a flex hone in a hand drill.  The drill operator would hold the drill with one hand while trying to keep it level, he used his other hand to hold the barrel down on the bench to keep it from flopping around.   Not spreading hate, just facts.

DR

Link Posted: 12/16/2010 7:24:23 PM EDT
[#15]
Get the Steyr.  I bought one and have never looked back.
Link Posted: 12/17/2010 5:44:22 AM EDT
[#16]


.....here we go !!
Link Posted: 12/17/2010 5:46:46 AM EDT
[#17]
I've had all 3 manufacturers and now only own a Steyr.
Link Posted: 12/17/2010 5:57:28 AM EDT
[#18]
I have owned 2 MSAR E4s.  BOTH have been 100% reliable.  Sold one already because I just didn't need 2.

BUT if I were doing it again...

I would take the advice sgtlmj gave me over a year ago and buy a Steyr.
Link Posted: 12/17/2010 7:31:53 AM EDT
[#19]
I own a E4 and love it.... I have a spare E4 stock. I believe that the E4 stock will work with a A3. If I could find a low priced A3 I'd snag it and throw it in the spare E4 stock.
Link Posted: 12/17/2010 9:20:12 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sabre Defence makes the A3 barrels, here is some food for thought.



http://www.fandmmag.com/web/online/Web-Exclusives/Honing-in-on-Success/20$1479


That is a great article.  MSAR honed all of their barrels with a flex hone in a hand drill.  The drill operator would hold the drill with one hand while trying to keep it level, he used his other hand to hold the barrel down on the bench to keep it from flopping around.   Not spreading hate, just facts.

DR



This doesn't surprise me, but I am disappointed.

I opted for the MSAR due to availability, and pushed my Dept. to purchase them to get around the IL SBR issue...

I feel bad that I sold many of my LEO brethren on the platform, only to hear that the MSAR is sub-par from a manufacturing stand point.

Although I did carry and train with the rifle, it is not a duty weapon anymore, I still use it for training and consultation work, but this is starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth and will probably go back to the AR platform...or find a Steyr.  My STG has been good to me and has had some issues that were promptly addressed and fixed while it was a duty rifle.  I guess I expected more.

Link Posted: 12/17/2010 11:50:25 AM EDT
[#21]
At one time I owned a STG556 and a Steyr AUG A3. Nothing was wrong with either rifle. I just liked they Steyr's fit and finnish better so I sold the MSAR.
Link Posted: 12/18/2010 5:42:20 AM EDT
[#22]
local retail arms merchant has the same 3 stgs on the wall since introduction, no takers at $1800 per. He has 9 original Augs at 3-8 grand depending. I can order a A3 for +/-  2g's and that's
what I'll do. Thank you all.
Link Posted: 12/18/2010 1:47:18 PM EDT
[#23]
You won't regret your decision.  Steyr may have stopped producing A3's, but you'll be able to get parts for it since the AUG is a service rifle, and people like Pete Athens will go to the trouble (and I mean trouble - just ask Kent Luttrell) of importing those parts from Austria.

There's no one to back up Microtech if/when they bite the dust, and they haven't been doing anything to suggest that their MSAR experiment is going to have much of a future save some website smoke and mirrors, and selling odd-caliber rifles that they've had for a while.
Link Posted: 12/18/2010 2:14:20 PM EDT
[#24]




Quoted:

You won't regret your decision. Steyr may have stopped producing A3's, but you'll be able to get parts for it since the AUG is a service rifle, and people like Pete Athens will go to the trouble (and I mean trouble - just ask Kent Luttrell) of importing those parts from Austria.



There's no one to back up Microtech if/when they bite the dust, and they haven't been doing anything to suggest that their MSAR experiment is going to have much of a future save some website smoke and mirrors, and selling odd-caliber rifles that they've had for a while.


An experiment in the running for three years now that has resulted in selling more rifles than Steyr ever imported into the country.  



If it were not for MSAR there would be nothing more than 150 more AXR owners and a little over 2,000 more AUG owners. There wouldn't even be a bullpup forum for Spart to make his negative statement about them in.  



Spart's also speculating. He has no clue what is going on over at MSAR right now. We do know for a fact that they are still operating their business though and that's all anyone can say as of today the rest is wild guessing.
Link Posted: 12/18/2010 2:21:03 PM EDT
[#25]




Quoted:



Quoted:



Quoted:

Sabre Defence makes the A3 barrels, here is some food for thought.
http://www.fandmmag.com/web/online/Web-Exclusives/Honing-in-on-Success/20$1479




That is a great article. MSAR honed all of their barrels with a flex hone in a hand drill. The drill operator would hold the drill with one hand while trying to keep it level, he used his other hand to hold the barrel down on the bench to keep it from flopping around. Not spreading hate, just facts.



DR







This doesn't surprise me, but I am disappointed.



I opted for the MSAR due to availability, and pushed my Dept. to purchase them to get around the IL SBR issue...



I feel bad that I sold many of my LEO brethren on the platform, only to hear that the MSAR is sub-par from a manufacturing stand point.



Although I did carry and train with the rifle, it is not a duty weapon anymore, I still use it for training and consultation work, but this is starting to leave a bad taste in my mouth and will probably go back to the AR platform...or find a Steyr. My STG has been good to me and has had some issues that were promptly addressed and fixed while it was a duty rifle. I guess I expected more.







If it provides you good service and reability why would it leave a bad taste in your mouth?  



There are many things that can be improved in all firearms out there in terms of production, but those things add to the cost of the final product. Few other rifles have the features/options that the STG or E4 do for its price.



MSAR is the first company EVER in the history of the United States of America to produce this style of rifle without the use of imported parts. They are not dependent on overseas production or shipment.  Their rifles carry life-time warranties.

Link Posted: 12/18/2010 2:46:22 PM EDT
[#26]
If it were not for MSAR there would be nothing more than 150 more AXR owners and a little over 2,000 more AUG owners. There wouldn't even be a bullpup forum for Spart to make his negative statement about them in.
  Yeah and if Ford had not built the Mustang; Chevy would have never built the Camaro. C'mon Silent give it a break already.

Link Posted: 12/18/2010 3:04:17 PM EDT
[#27]
Well the thread made it 22 decent replies without the same old pointless bickering, but it arrived eventually.  It always arrives eventually...



Still, took longer than I thought it would to descend into a crapfest...
Link Posted: 12/18/2010 5:32:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Two STG's > two different generations > both went back > both were fixed > both times I received great service > both were later sold > Saving for a Steyr....to keep!
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