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Posted: 10/29/2012 3:45:55 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2012 3:48:49 PM EST by PjsSteyrAug]
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 3:57:10 PM EST
Very interesting. I would suggest they move the charging handle forward similar to the location on the SCAR or ACR.
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 4:01:04 PM EST
Originally Posted By salsantini:
Very interesting. I would suggest they move the charging handle forward similar to the location on the SCAR or ACR.



And rack your knuckles on optics, no way.





Link Posted: 10/29/2012 4:06:55 PM EST
Originally Posted By PjsSteyrAug:
I guess the cat is out of the bag. So it won't hurt to post this.

Steyr has prototyped a new AR 15 style rifle with a quick change barrel. Also quick change caliber conversion too.Will it make it to the States? I don't know.

What do you guys think about it?
Pete Athens


http://www.steyrauga3cqc.com/SteyrAR.jpg
http://www.steyrauga3cqc.com/SteyrAR1.jpg



I love my AUG A3 and my AR, now i can love them in one package, what a great idea and conversions too ! how the hell did you keep this a secret ? i would of sung like a canary .
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 4:09:37 PM EST
Quite interesting approach. It's going to be a real tough sell considering there are so many brands of AR15 already. Both in the DI and Piston markets. A secondary issue will be price. Where will it fall?
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 4:13:32 PM EST
That's pretty frikken sweet!
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 4:16:42 PM EST
Nice. I sure would like to own one of those.
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 4:24:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2012 4:26:44 PM EST by ColtsR4Football]
I like it OK. I agree though, I'd like to see the CH moved so one can open the bolt and lock it open without taking the strong hand off the stock...without using an extended bolt stop lever that uses up trigger guard space like they did. Yeah, the handle is close to the optic on a SCAR and AUG, but maybe it could be located lower.

I hear the safety can be applied with the hammer down. I also see the latest HK 416 (416A5?) is the same way. Why? Is this a requirement on somebody's bid proposal that they are all trying to win?
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 4:45:12 PM EST
DO. WANT. NOW.
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 5:11:21 PM EST
That would be a great addition to my safe.
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 5:13:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2012 5:22:31 PM EST by vanvideo]
It looks like an M4 style: select fire.
Will they import a semi auto AR version?

eta - I assumed it was a military carbine. Hell, i dunno. I would love a civie version.
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 5:18:31 PM EST
It has potential, and I'd buy one if it was available. One thing I'd like to know is how it balances compared to other ARs with a similar barrel length as the gas block could add a more weight than a DI system.
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 5:59:52 PM EST
I'm curious to know what the AUG piston pushes against. Does the bolt carrier have an extension similar to what PWS uses in their system?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 6:30:35 PM EST
Cool.

Offer a light weight profile bbl and It'll sell.

Also make it affordable, unlike the ACR/SCAR.
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 6:30:46 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2012 6:33:17 PM EST by JoshNC]
That is FANTASTIC. As to whether it will make it to the US, I suspect you of all people could make it happen. And I surely hope you will make this happen. Very, very cool. Would be nice if they took it a step further, made the carrier ride on rails and with a return spring housed in the upper. In any case, I want one regardless. A Steyr made Stoner rifle...what's not to like?
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 9:08:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2012 9:11:31 PM EST by Grocerystore_ninja]
Looks like a ts3 lower from vltor almost. The upper has vltor similarities as well I wouldn't be suprised if we see the keymod system become implemented which would possibly make sense seing as the new relationship between the two companys.

Also is the upper serialized?

I would pay through the knows for one of those

Link Posted: 10/29/2012 9:13:05 PM EST
AR15 buffer and buffer tube... fail.
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 9:35:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/29/2012 9:38:24 PM EST by Whitebrad25]
Monolithic uppers are generally heavy....I'd want to know the weight on it or I would for sure be out....Just me, maybe. I mean, it isn't a bullpup...it just has the quick barrel exchange....but, if you are like me, you have more than 1 AR that is already GTG for each caliber you care to shoot anyways...Kinda seems like a pointless benefit when you give up the weight/feel/balance/ergo of a bullpup for this.

I'll just stick with conventional ARs, SBRs, and Bullpups.


ETA: let's not forget that you would lose zero between calibers anyways.....seems easier to just switch uppers on an AR.
Link Posted: 10/29/2012 9:37:30 PM EST
I would love one.
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 12:43:13 AM EST
That's pretty slick! I would be interested in one myself.

Would be great to see more detailed photos of the inside of the upper.
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 4:05:44 AM EST
I would be in for an upper. Already have plenty of built lowers ready to go.
Depending on price, of course.
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 4:29:01 AM EST
Originally Posted By Whitebrad25:



ETA: let's not forget that you would lose zero between calibers anyways.....seems easier to just switch uppers on an AR.


This is my opinion as well. When I change from a 24" 5.56 with a scope to a 16" 300 Whisper with an EOTech I keep the sights zero'd for each one. I wouldn't want the scope I have on the long barrel upper on the shorter barrel 300 that has a much, much faster bullet drop.

I see this as a military contract thing. It's like the SCAR that has a quick change barrel system with different lengths for different missions. All the same caliber though.

I have or have had 5 different calibers in AR15 uppers. I ended up just building a lower for each one anyway after originally planning on having just one with all the upper options as a "package".

It is cool to see how they took the AUG quick change barrel system and put it in an AR though.
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 4:39:12 AM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2012 4:42:19 AM EST by mcantu]
its really interesting how they are using the AUG gas system

and incorporating the AUG quick detach method just made every other 5.56 rifle with a QD barrel cry
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 4:50:12 AM EST
They should stick with bullpups.
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 5:02:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By Whitebrad25:
Monolithic uppers are generally heavy....I'd want to know the weight on it or I would for sure be out....Just me, maybe. I mean, it isn't a bullpup...it just has the quick barrel exchange....but, if you are like me, you have more than 1 AR that is already GTG for each caliber you care to shoot anyways...Kinda seems like a pointless benefit when you give up the weight/feel/balance/ergo of a bullpup for this.

I'll just stick with conventional ARs, SBRs, and Bullpups.


ETA: let's not forget that you would lose zero between calibers anyways.....seems easier to just switch uppers on an AR.


3200 grams empty

7.05 pounds empty
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 5:40:47 AM EST
Crap, I would get one as soon as it was available.

Max
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 6:01:16 AM EST
That is very cool.

Pete: What are the two barrel lengths that are shown in the photo?

Any idea how well this thing suppresses? Does it suffer from the same issues with suppression that affect the Aug gas system?
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 6:04:54 AM EST
I would be in for an SBR upper for one of my lowers if they sell them by themselves.
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 6:53:41 AM EST
I like it! Hhmmmm.
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 7:32:00 AM EST
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
AR15 buffer and buffer tube... fail.


this.
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 1:28:01 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/30/2012 1:30:06 PM EST by RevolverOcelot79]
Pistons have no place in ARs. For that I'd get another AUG or, a SCAR, FAL, M1A, XCR, AK, ACR.
Link Posted: 10/30/2012 1:29:30 PM EST
Originally Posted By Furyataurus:
They should stick with bullpups.


This

Link Posted: 10/30/2012 1:49:07 PM EST
Originally Posted By Depidy_Dawg:
DO. WANT. NOW.


Link Posted: 10/30/2012 2:36:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By RevolverOcelot79:
Originally Posted By Furyataurus:
They should stick with bullpups.


This



I don't know about that. A lot of militaries really like AR type guns for their "special force" guys.
This could have been started by Austria wanting a national designed/assembled AR type gun instead of buying from overseas.

Steyr knows how to make reliable and accurate firearms. I doubt their new STM is going to be a failed project. Time will tell.
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 10:38:35 AM EST
I'd like to buy TODAY
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 11:17:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By maleante:
Originally Posted By RevolverOcelot79:
Originally Posted By Furyataurus:
They should stick with bullpups.


This



I don't know about that. A lot of militaries really like AR type guns for their "special force" guys.
This could have been started by Austria wanting a national designed/assembled AR type gun instead of buying from overseas.

Steyr knows how to make reliable and accurate firearms. I doubt their new STM is going to be a failed project. Time will tell.


Most likely the design was spurred by a bid on a rifle contract somewhere in the world.
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 11:39:38 AM EST
Not really in the loop on AR's, has the whole carrier tilt thing been solved on piston driven AR's?
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 1:15:07 PM EST
it depends on the company making the carrier and or buffer
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 2:12:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By poorman:
Not really in the loop on AR's, has the whole carrier tilt thing been solved on piston driven AR's?


Yes. I wouldn't do most conversions but most factory piston systems have resolved this growing pain.
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 2:17:02 PM EST
I like it.I'd get one.
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 3:00:02 PM EST
I'm not as interested as I was at first. It looks to me like the QC barrel system would add weight (not much, but up front where it feels like more), and with a rifle whose entire upper can be swapped in seconds, I'm not so sure it adds much versatility. You are still limited to a 5.56 boltface (I guess), so it only lets you swap barrel lengths and weights, and a few calibers like .300 BLK.

Originally Posted By Dawg180:
Most likely the design was spurred by a bid on a rifle contract somewhere in the world.


That was my first thought, and the more I look at it, the more I think that's it. I had just been reading about the HK416A5, which has most of the same curious mix of features. I think I've seen another smaller maker with something similar. I can't see a big enough market for an AR with the addition of a QC barrel and a safety that can be engaged with the hammer down for anyone, let alone Steyr, to develop and start production...unless some gov't out there put out a proposal whose specs read the same as this rifle.
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 5:06:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2012 5:11:19 PM EST by Dorsai]
I know one of the guys who helped with the development. He's a Major in the Austrian army. With a 16" barrel, the weight is 3.2kg = 7lbs. The bolt is an AUG bolt modified to fit an AR15 bolt carrier. It is a return to zero with the same barrel. Remove it, put it back, no zero change. You do get a zero change with different barrels. You aren't limited to 5.56mm case head dimensions, but you are to overall cartridge length. So swapping the barrel, bolt and magazine would allow you to shoot 5.56mm, 5.45x39mm, 7.62x39mm, .300 Blackout, 6.8x43SPC, 6.5 Grendel, etc.

Steyr developed it for the IC competition, which mandates an adjustable length of pull. I don't know if this is for our IC (individual carbine) competition or if it is for a European competition. The AUG has limitations, particularly when wearing armor and heavy clothing, and mounting grenade launchers. The LOP is not adjustable and is too long with all the gear and the GL has a tendency to crack stocks. Here is part of the writeup by the man himself.

There is no POI shift if you dismount and mount the same barrel. There might be some shift with other barrels (same length). And there are shifts for sure if you change the barrel length.

Why a (real and quick) barrel changing system? Or better: possible benefits:
- Its easy to clean (no fumbling around in a barrel extension, etc.). I like this feature on my AUG
- You can easily clear some types of malfunction (e. g. stuck case, broken case, ... you name it)
- You can go from CQB length to DMR length quickly with the core of the rifle staying the same (I know.. there might be no reason to do that in 5 seconds, but as a side effect you simply can).
- Quick and easy caliber changes are possible by just changing the barrel and the bolt head. That´s done within 60 seconds. The STM556 will be offered in 5,56, 7,62x39 and .300 Whisper for now. More to come. Barrel legths will be: 11,5", 13", 14,5", 16", 18", 20", and 22".
- Because of that quick change system they are thinking of lMG versions in 5,56 and 7,63x39. Could be interesting.

Probably there are more advantages. And if you see no benefit you can just treat it as every other rifle.

The barrels are cold hammer forged, chrome lined and MANNOX coated. Also every other steel part is MANNOX coated.

The gas settings are:
- normal use
- heavy use (weaker loads, dirt, temperature, etc.)
- silencer
- off (for barrel grenades and if you need a silent shot with a can without any motion of the bcg (think of .300 Whisper)

The gas piston, which is a 35 years proved system, kicks a rod that is located in the handguard and can easily be removed, when the barrel is off. There is almost no dirt or carbon build up on this rod after heavy and sustained fire.

The handguard/upper receiver is monolithic and made of forged 7075 aluminum. 3 reasons for the monolithic design:
- optics
- barrel change system
- use of grenade launcher (have you ever seen high speed footage of an AUG mounted GL shooting a 40mm?)

The ventilation holes on the side of the handguard will all be able to receive quick detach sling swivel attachments. Additionally you can mount different Picatinny rails that come with a cable slot (like the side AUG A3 rail).

The safety catch will be able to be also engaged when the hammer is not cocked (some mil regulations want a rifle to be on safe before loaded).

The most interesting thing is still in the experimental phase: They want to establish a permanent dry lubrication system in that rifle. This will also be possible due to the piston system, because heat is generated at the front end and not in the bolt carrier group.

Additional remarks:

This rifle is still a prototype! I just wonder how many experts are on the internet (especially on german forums) who are discussing wildely just because they see a picture of a prototype.

Will this rifle be a toy for the overindividualized civilian who wants to change the handguard every other day? Probably not. But therefor it is also not designed to.
Will you be able to shoot it "Costa-Style" (sorry). No. But a longer handguard is planned/possible as much as I know.

Yes. After 5 Magazins of rapid fire the front end gets hot. But handling is still possible. And if you use a VFG you have absolutely no problems. And after that ammount of ammo you can still touch the bcg. And there was no cook off. BTW: I own a DI SBR with a Troy TRX Battle rail and I too don´t want to touch it at the front end without gloves after 5 mags of sustained fire.

Regarding the serial numbers: In Austria (were the rifle is manufactured) only the barrel and the bolt head are considered as weapon parts. The lower (and the rest) you can buy like bread at a bakery.
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 5:43:50 PM EST
But the point in the quick change (as it seemed marketed) is for quick caliber conversions....it is monolithic so you WILL need to re-zero....I understand the convenience, somewhat, but to a greater extent the convenience will actually only exist when switching barrel sizes within a caliber....if you switch calibers you need to re-zero...I would say the benefit there would be negligible since the time to re-zero is greater than switching uppers on an AR15....My opinion.
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 6:12:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By Whitebrad25:
But the point in the quick change (as it seemed marketed) is for quick caliber conversions....it is monolithic so you WILL need to re-zero....I understand the convenience, somewhat, but to a greater extent the convenience will actually only exist when switching barrel sizes within a caliber....if you switch calibers you need to re-zero...I would say the benefit there would be negligible since the time to re-zero is greater than switching uppers on an AR15....My opinion.


I don't see the problem, you're thinking too small.

If you can afford a rifle system with multiple calibers, you probably have more than one optic for it as well. A quality optic mount will hold zero (see Larue Tactical for a good example of this).


Example:

Rifle chasis + 5.56 conversion with aimpoint zeroed to 5.56 conversion + 7.62 conversion with dedicated acog + 6.8 conversion with dedicated 1-4 optic
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 7:08:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2012 8:04:59 PM EST by Whitebrad25]
I love Larue (only mounts I have used thus far as well)...I don't feel I am "thinking too small;" I think it is a flawed benefit at best (or negligible benefit). I would still have to then carry the optics for each caliber, mount them in similar (marked or otherwise; this wouldn't be hard of course) locations for each caliber, and then also carry the barrels....or, just have a few uppers in the bag/pelican case (my point is that both will likely occupy as much space)...

I see an ease for those with one caliber or one rifle but for those who are already vested in AR15's, it just isn't appealing. Having to rely on any mount for within MOA after taking it on and off of the upper works for most (arguably all) realistic applications but then one must haul the optics and the barrels as opposed to another Upper...at the end of it all, I still think switching uppers is faster and more efficient. YMMV.



Furthermore, I don't feel my comment was "small" minded, I thought about it hard..I wanted to like the system (I love the ingenuity, regardless) but firearms are a very personal thing....I evaluated my initial comments for my personal preferences, needs, and uses.
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 8:05:21 PM EST
Originally Posted By maleante:
Originally Posted By Whitebrad25:
But the point in the quick change (as it seemed marketed) is for quick caliber conversions....it is monolithic so you WILL need to re-zero....I understand the convenience, somewhat, but to a greater extent the convenience will actually only exist when switching barrel sizes within a caliber....if you switch calibers you need to re-zero...I would say the benefit there would be negligible since the time to re-zero is greater than switching uppers on an AR15....My opinion.


I don't see the problem, you're thinking too small.

If you can afford a rifle system with multiple calibers, you probably have more than one optic for it as well. A quality optic mount will hold zero (see Larue Tactical for a good example of this).


Example:

Rifle chasis + 5.56 conversion with aimpoint zeroed to 5.56 conversion + 7.62 conversion with dedicated acog + 6.8 conversion with dedicated 1-4 optic


I agree although i believe if toy know your battle site zero and have good fundamentals the poi should not be that far off after a barrel swap. and if you cant wind-age your shots after a few rounds you have bigger problems than a poi shift.
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 8:13:40 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2012 9:11:01 PM EST by Whitebrad25]
Originally Posted By Grocerystore_ninja:
Originally Posted By maleante:
Originally Posted By Whitebrad25:
But the point in the quick change (as it seemed marketed) is for quick caliber conversions....it is monolithic so you WILL need to re-zero....I understand the convenience, somewhat, but to a greater extent the convenience will actually only exist when switching barrel sizes within a caliber....if you switch calibers you need to re-zero...I would say the benefit there would be negligible since the time to re-zero is greater than switching uppers on an AR15....My opinion.


I don't see the problem, you're thinking too small.

If you can afford a rifle system with multiple calibers, you probably have more than one optic for it as well. A quality optic mount will hold zero (see Larue Tactical for a good example of this).


Example:

Rifle chasis + 5.56 conversion with aimpoint zeroed to 5.56 conversion + 7.62 conversion with dedicated acog + 6.8 conversion with dedicated 1-4 optic


I agree although i believe if toy know your battle site zero and have good fundamentals the poi should not be that far off after a barrel swap. and if you cant wind-age your shots after a few rounds you have bigger problems than a poi shift.




Example: 300 Blackout. Huge shifts with this load (range depending)....I still view it as a negligible benefit to change barrels (different caliber) quickly....Even in the AUG platform I feel this way with the exclusion of the newer suppressed barrels that are out (but this stays in 5.56/.223).


The change might be minimal...but what are you using it for? Competition? Range BS? Duty (doubtful but plausible)?


It would still be an investment....these barrels likely are not cheap and while 90% will simply punch paper regardless of the tool (I know my duty carbine is a DDM4V5), it is still a financial investment...one that I see a negligible benefit from, if any. The selling point for the AUG platform, to me, isn't quick barrel changes but obviously the bullpup design.


I suppose it is just me in this boat but I would rather just get a piston upper if I feel the need for a piston system and an AUG if I feel the need for a bullpup .
Link Posted: 10/31/2012 8:54:56 PM EST
[Last Edit: 10/31/2012 8:55:21 PM EST by JoshNC]
I just want one for my personal reference collection, not as my go-to rifle. It is an interesting design and made by one of the premier European small arms manufacturers.
Link Posted: 11/1/2012 3:41:07 AM EST
There's another option, it just requires you to be more disciplined than a casual, weekend shooter at the gravel pit. When I shot competition with an M1 Garand, you zeroed at 200yds. For all other ranges and shooting positions, you re-zeroed and recorded how many clicks up/down, left/right from your initial zero. So I knew that if I was shooting sitting at 300 or prone at 500, to just dial in the dope change on the sights. You could do the the same with your barrel change. If you add an upper receiver to your AR, you need to zero that optic as well. A barrel is cheaper than an entirely new upper and optic.
Link Posted: 11/1/2012 4:43:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By Whitebrad25:
I love Larue (only mounts I have used thus far as well)...I don't feel I am "thinking too small;" I think it is a flawed benefit at best (or negligible benefit). I would still have to then carry the optics for each caliber, mount them in similar (marked or otherwise; this wouldn't be hard of course) locations for each caliber, and then also carry the barrels....or, just have a few uppers in the bag/pelican case (my point is that both will likely occupy as much space)...

I see an ease for those with one caliber or one rifle but for those who are already vested in AR15's, it just isn't appealing. Having to rely on any mount for within MOA after taking it on and off of the upper works for most (arguably all) realistic applications but then one must haul the optics and the barrels as opposed to another Upper...at the end of it all, I still think switching uppers is faster and more efficient. YMMV.



Furthermore, I don't feel my comment was "small" minded, I thought about it hard..I wanted to like the system (I love the ingenuity, regardless) but firearms are a very personal thing....I evaluated my initial comments for my personal preferences, needs, and uses.


I think Steyr's approach is a good one and that people are panning it because it's different. I didn't see them panning the Masada/ACR when it was announced and had this sort of barrel swap, nor have I seen it directed to the ARX-160, but they're not ARs and so I guess it's ok for them to do things differently.

Consider this...it's a lot easier to carry a barrel, bolt, and optic, than an entire upper receiver.
Link Posted: 11/1/2012 4:57:22 AM EST
My intrest in this is primarily as another upper for my M-16. It would be nice to be able to quickly change hot barrel's and perhaps calibers. It would take a lot less to take along a few barrels and a couple zeroed aimpoints than it would taking several uppers like I do now which would leave more room for ammo. Pulling the barrel for cleaning at the end of the day would also be faster since they would fit better in the parts washer.
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