Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login

Posted: 8/27/2009 1:22:30 PM EST
So, if you "found" a vintage M16 in Vietnam and got it to the U.S. somehow, would there be any way to own it legally, if it is a preban original M16? Now before anybody goes and makes any assumptions, no, I did not find any guns...I have never even been to Asia. Just a simple question....
Link Posted: 8/27/2009 1:28:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2009 1:34:21 PM EST by CAR-AR-M16]
Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:
So, if you "found" a vintage M16 in Vietnam and got it to the U.S. somehow, would there be any way to own it legally, if it is a preban original M16? Now before anybody goes and makes any assumptions, no, I did not find any guns...I have never even been to Asia. Just a simple question....


Just a simple answer... No. The only way for a civilian to own an MG is for it to have been registered with ATF prior to May 19, 1986. Even though the gun in question was made before 86, the military did not register them with ATF, so they would not be transferable. Also, since your M16 is being "imported" from overseas it would have to have been imported prior to 1968. Foreign imported MG's or US made re-imported MG's were banned from civilians by GCA 68, and domestic MG were banned by FOPA 86.
Link Posted: 8/27/2009 1:29:30 PM EST
Bummer. Thanks man.
Link Posted: 8/27/2009 1:30:36 PM EST
What about registering it as a C&R?
Link Posted: 8/27/2009 1:33:02 PM EST
Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:
What about registering it as a C&R?


No, it is still an MG and would have to meet the criiteria mentioned above.

Link Posted: 8/27/2009 1:44:30 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2009 1:45:13 PM EST by SigOwner_P229]
If it was registered, and it is reimported, wouldn't it be considered a pre dealer-sample? These sell for a pretty good premium over post samples. You wouldn't be able to keep it unless you were a dealer, but you could still sell it for nearly enough to buy a transferable RR.

I may be wrong though. I just thought pre samples were from mgs that were registered at one time, then exported, then reimported after 68.
Link Posted: 8/27/2009 1:48:29 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2009 1:49:33 PM EST by CAR-AR-M16]
Originally Posted By SigOwner_P229:
If it was registered, and it is reimported, wouldn't it be considered a pre dealer-sample? These sell for a pretty good premium over post samples. You wouldn't be able to keep it unless you were a dealer, but you could still sell it for nearly enough to buy a transferable RR.

I may be wrong though. I just thought pre samples were from mgs that were registered at one time, then exported, then reimported after 68.


Yes, if it was LEGALLY imported between 68-86 for LE/Mil use it would be a pre-May dealer sample that could only be owned by a C3 Dealer. The OP did not mention legal importation, only that it was "found" in Vietnam and "somehow" made it to the US.

Link Posted: 8/27/2009 1:52:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2009 1:53:39 PM EST by RenegadeX]

Originally Posted By squirrelslayer1:
So, if you "found" a vintage M16 in Vietnam and got it to the U.S. somehow


Sounds like a stolen gun, then illegal importation, then illegal possession. Quite the Trifecta.
Link Posted: 8/27/2009 2:38:09 PM EST
If you also find a time machine to take you back to before the Amnesty in 1968, you could register it.
Link Posted: 8/27/2009 2:54:24 PM EST
what about a legal vet bringback prior to 68 . If not registered in 68 it is illegal correct?
Link Posted: 8/27/2009 2:58:56 PM EST
Originally Posted By emcs31089:
what about a legal vet bringback prior to 68 . If not registered in 68 it is illegal correct?

Correct. Amnesty in 1968 was the last chance to register an existing NFA item. After that it's contraband.
Link Posted: 8/27/2009 3:03:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By emcs31089:
what about a legal vet bringback prior to 68 . If not registered in 68 it is illegal correct?

Correct. Amnesty in 1968 was the last chance to register an existing NFA item. After that it's contraband.


How were people supposed to know about this and how long were they given?
Link Posted: 8/27/2009 3:07:48 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2009 3:10:58 PM EST by Gamma762]
Originally Posted By emcs31089:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By emcs31089:
what about a legal vet bringback prior to 68 . If not registered in 68 it is illegal correct?

Correct. Amnesty in 1968 was the last chance to register an existing NFA item. After that it's contraband.

How were people supposed to know about this and how long were they given?

Amnesty was only 30 days and was not particularly well publicized after the Gun Control Act of 1968 was signed into law.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=911868
Here's a recent discussion thread which explains some of the rationale for the crazy NFA system we have now.
Link Posted: 8/27/2009 3:10:44 PM EST
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By emcs31089:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By emcs31089:
what about a legal vet bringback prior to 68 . If not registered in 68 it is illegal correct?

Correct. Amnesty in 1968 was the last chance to register an existing NFA item. After that it's contraband.

How were people supposed to know about this and how long were they given?

Amnesty was only 30 days and was not particularly well publicized after the Gun Control Act of 1968 was signed into law.


30 days? What a fucking joke.
Link Posted: 8/27/2009 3:11:49 PM EST
You'd think more people on this website would have at least read Unintended Consequences.
Link Posted: 8/27/2009 3:49:31 PM EST
Somebody planning a trip to the P.I. ?


Link Posted: 8/27/2009 3:52:36 PM EST
[Last Edit: 8/27/2009 3:53:54 PM EST by Homeinvader]
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By emcs31089:
what about a legal vet bringback prior to 68 . If not registered in 68 it is illegal correct?

Correct. Amnesty in 1968 was the last chance to register an existing NFA item. After that it's contraband.


This bears repeating because it's the only scenario that counts for this gun.

This hypothetical gun would have necessarily been registered in the '68 amnesty to be legal now. The amnesty would have been vital to strip the "stolen gov't property" status of a nam-era US-marked M16A1. Simply being able to register it as an MG would not be enough since there are other unrelated crimes associated with it.

The May '86 deadline was for domestic manufacture of new transferable MGs. The stolen property aspect aside, this one having been manufactured well before that would not have been registerable even prior to FOPA '86.
Link Posted: 8/28/2009 2:31:30 AM EST
I just bought a hundred that will be welded up and hung on walls accross Europe, same thing with a bunch of M60s and M79s and a few 1949 AK underfolders on original stamped receivers. Since not even 'non-sporting' barrels can be imported back into the US anymore stripping the guns for parts doesn't even make much sense. Saving the world from terrorism.
Link Posted: 10/19/2009 6:57:27 PM EST
sneak it into the country and bury it for when the shtf...
Link Posted: 10/20/2009 3:43:17 PM EST
If you could import the M79 parts into America Monkey Man, you could likely make some serious money if you had a several. 40mm tubes are very easy to manufacture all of the other parts are not. If you were to be interested, I would contact Mr. 40mm, Randy Shivak. M79 parts are starting to run very thin and command a premium when they are found. I would love to come accross a M79 parts kit, but I could not afford it even if I could find one.
Link Posted: 10/20/2009 6:06:24 PM EST
Monkey-man, I think we're owed a backstory. We might let you slide without pics, but I for one am HIGHLY curious to hear how one acquires US Government property from war in a Communist country.
Link Posted: 10/21/2009 3:06:35 AM EST
Originally Posted By cosmos556:
Monkey-man, I think we're owed a backstory. We might let you slide without pics, but I for one am HIGHLY curious to hear how one acquires US Government property from war in a Communist country.


That is a giant leap of assumption.

I trade obsolete weapons with western gov's for credits on new weapons. In all cases I'm aquiring guns that would otherwise be dumped in the sea or crushed. It's a way for cash-strapped security forces to aquire new kit without begging their gov's for money. In addition, it's a great way to discover history. If you were close enough to buy me a drink or ten I could tell you some stories (like the three Mixim WW1 trophies found under a library floor).

Link Posted: 10/21/2009 8:39:08 AM EST
Originally Posted By Monkey-man:
Originally Posted By cosmos556:
Monkey-man, I think we're owed a backstory. We might let you slide without pics, but I for one am HIGHLY curious to hear how one acquires US Government property from war in a Communist country.


That is a giant leap of assumption.

I trade obsolete weapons with western gov's for credits on new weapons. In all cases I'm aquiring guns that would otherwise be dumped in the sea or crushed. It's a way for cash-strapped security forces to aquire new kit without begging their gov's for money. In addition, it's a great way to discover history. If you were close enough to buy me a drink or ten I could tell you some stories (like the three Mixim WW1 trophies found under a library floor).



Where is "close enough" to buy you a beer?
Link Posted: 10/21/2009 8:54:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Originally Posted By Monkey-man:
Originally Posted By cosmos556:
Monkey-man, I think we're owed a backstory. We might let you slide without pics, but I for one am HIGHLY curious to hear how one acquires US Government property from war in a Communist country.


That is a giant leap of assumption.

I trade obsolete weapons with western gov's for credits on new weapons. In all cases I'm aquiring guns that would otherwise be dumped in the sea or crushed. It's a way for cash-strapped security forces to aquire new kit without begging their gov's for money. In addition, it's a great way to discover history. If you were close enough to buy me a drink or ten I could tell you some stories (like the three Mixim WW1 trophies found under a library floor).



Where is "close enough" to buy you a beer?


Sorry, don't drink beer; I've always found it a waste of good drinking time :) I live in the Caribbean but trade in/with this area, top of S.America, UK, Italy and Switzerland mainly but a small bit in Eastern Europe as well. Once you escape the boundaries of the US (geographical and legal) the rest of the world is a pretty big place.

Link Posted: 10/21/2009 2:46:50 PM EST
Originally Posted By Monkey-man:
Originally Posted By cosmos556:
Monkey-man, I think we're owed a backstory. We might let you slide without pics, but I for one am HIGHLY curious to hear how one acquires US Government property from war in a Communist country.


That is a giant leap of assumption.

I trade obsolete weapons with western gov's for credits on new weapons. In all cases I'm aquiring guns that would otherwise be dumped in the sea or crushed. It's a way for cash-strapped security forces to aquire new kit without begging their gov's for money. In addition, it's a great way to discover history. If you were close enough to buy me a drink or ten I could tell you some stories (like the three Mixim WW1 trophies found under a library floor).




Oops, sorry to assume. Too bad I don't jetset more, it sounds like you have some awesome stories
Link Posted: 10/21/2009 5:51:50 PM EST
Link Posted: 10/21/2009 7:24:19 PM EST
Originally Posted By Monkey-man:
Originally Posted By damcv62:
Originally Posted By Monkey-man:
Originally Posted By cosmos556:
Monkey-man, I think we're owed a backstory. We might let you slide without pics, but I for one am HIGHLY curious to hear how one acquires US Government property from war in a Communist country.


That is a giant leap of assumption.

I trade obsolete weapons with western gov's for credits on new weapons. In all cases I'm aquiring guns that would otherwise be dumped in the sea or crushed. It's a way for cash-strapped security forces to aquire new kit without begging their gov's for money. In addition, it's a great way to discover history. If you were close enough to buy me a drink or ten I could tell you some stories (like the three Mixim WW1 trophies found under a library floor).



Where is "close enough" to buy you a beer?


Sorry, don't drink beer; I've always found it a waste of good drinking time :) I live in the Caribbean but trade in/with this area, top of S.America, UK, Italy and Switzerland mainly but a small bit in Eastern Europe as well. Once you escape the boundaries of the US (geographical and legal) the rest of the world is a pretty big place.





Didn't even see you hadn't put beer. I guess paying attention is a good thing too. Sounds like a good time though. I'd buy you a drink to hear the stories.
Link Posted: 10/22/2009 5:47:08 PM EST
some interesting M16's have shown up in central and south america. You would be surprised at what is floating around down south and how they come to get there.
Link Posted: 10/22/2009 7:31:12 PM EST
Originally Posted By cruizer:
some interesting M16's have shown up in central and south america. You would be surprised at what is floating around down south and how they come to get there.


If only guns could talk, the stories some of them could tell.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:16:18 PM EST
Originally Posted By Homeinvader:
Originally Posted By Gamma762:
Originally Posted By emcs31089:
what about a legal vet bringback prior to 68 . If not registered in 68 it is illegal correct?

Correct. Amnesty in 1968 was the last chance to register an existing NFA item. After that it's contraband.


This bears repeating because it's the only scenario that counts for this gun.

This hypothetical gun would have necessarily been registered in the '68 amnesty to be legal now. The amnesty would have been vital to strip the "stolen gov't property" status of a nam-era US-marked M16A1. Simply being able to register it as an MG would not be enough since there are other unrelated crimes associated with it.

The May '86 deadline was for domestic manufacture of new transferable MGs. The stolen property aspect aside, this one having been manufactured well before that would not have been registerable even prior to FOPA '86.


Minor point, and one which is not well-known. The NFA provides for additional amnesty registration periods, not to exceed 90 days. There are rumors brewing that ATF is considering running another amnesty (really because the NFRTR is so terrible out of sync with reality), but they won't comment specifically.

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 6:46:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 7:36:05 PM EST by Gamma762]
Originally Posted By Monkey-man:
Since not even 'non-sporting' barrels can be imported back into the US anymore stripping the guns for parts doesn't even make much sense.

If you could get parts in there's a specialty market here for Vietnam-era parts, especially very early parts... upper receivers, visible parts from the lower receivers, furniture sets, muzzle devices and even front sight bases. If you could cut the barrels in front and behind the FSB to demil the uppers along with the furniture and lower parts you could sell some for more than your wall hangers I'll bet. People even buy demilled front halves (magwells) of the lowers just to get the old rollmarks.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 9:11:32 PM EST
Monkey-Man, how does one get into your line of work?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:28:38 AM EST
Originally Posted By sardo_67:
Monkey-Man, how does one get into your line of work?


To quote Butch Stuart from Sandals resorts when he was asked how to become a millionaire: "start with a billion dollars and buy an airline".

Like most opportunities in life, first you have to recognise it and then bust your ass to catch it. The tougher a job is (like the legal requirements of the arms trade for example) the fewer people there are doing it.

If I had it to do over today I'd start an emergency plumbing and electrical business, things without computers are becoming more expensive to repair every day as basic technical skills disappear.
Top Top