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Posted: 6/11/2002 4:43:21 PM EST
Being at a point in time in my life when if I were to decide to go for it I could relocate with not too much of a hassle (recently finished college, no job yet, no kids, only a g/f I'd have to ditch at the mall or something...hehe), and being unbelievably frustrated at how quickly the commies in Sac have encroached on our rights in the past few years, from time to time my brain contemplates making a run for one of PRK's neighbors where laws are a lot less unconstitutional.  I had no idea about SB23 until I made one of my then infrequent (no money while I was in college to buy anything fun so I didn't tease myself) stops in a fun store and saw that all the AR's were gone.  Until then I was living under the assumption that there'd be time for me to purchase lots of toys before they tried to ban them....well, they beat me.  

The problem is, while a lot of people know what it's like to try to own guns  here, I don't know what it would be like to purchase weapons if I were to get myself established as a resident of another state.  Not knowing how exactly things would be different doesn't give me any motivation to get out of here, other than the latent knowledge that anywhere else I'd go would be better than here.

So...California has a 10 day waiting period on all firearms, further restricting handguns to one a month.  Next year they are upping the licensing requirements to purchase a handgun from the BFSC (basic firearms saftey communist-card).  There is only one .223 semi-auto rifle legal to buy, and not many more in any other calibers.  Standard capacity magazines are legal to possess, but not to sell or borrow (I think).

Just how much better is it in another state like Arizona or Nevada?  Is it really as simple as walking into a dealer, filling out the fed's paperz, and walking out with any weapons a person wants? (not class III stuff, suppose I see two AR's and a couple of pistols).

Link Posted: 6/11/2002 5:13:25 PM EST
Get the hell out of Cali. ASAP!
I'm not joking.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 5:21:12 PM EST
Thats too bad...I grew up in Calif but moved to Texas and I don't regret it one bit.  Just waiting for Calif to now fall off into the Pacific along with all the bleeding hearts there like Feinstein and Boxer...
BTW, in most states that has a CHL, you can buy and carry the firearm home the same day as your background has already been cleared in the CHL process.  No stupid waiting period alone is worth getting the CHL.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 5:26:29 PM EST
As I remember, Arizona is an "open carry" state. That means you can walk into a store, fill out the Brady bill form, walk out with a pistol in a holster on your hip, and carry it most places you go. I haven't ever purchased a weapon in Arizona or Nevada, however, so someone who has should pipe up.

I HAVE purchased rifles in New York, however. I walked into B&J in Albany, filled out the Brady bill form, and walked out with a Colt Competition HBAR (AR-15). Later I did the same with a Springfield M1A.

Handguns are a different story, though. For that you must apply to the local sherrif for a license and then register every handgun before receiving it from the seller. If you want to be legal, that is...

And don't even ask about New York City.

Stick with Arizona or Nevada.

Nationwide Vermont carry now!
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 5:31:40 PM EST
Check out Nevada. When you do get a high paying job, you will really appreciate not paying any state income tax. You can own any type of firearm you want and there are plenty of places to shoot them. No waiting just the standard Federal background B.S. NFA stuff is OK. Quality of life in general is very good. It does get hot in Southern Nevada, but you really do get used to it. In any case, it beats shoveling snow in the winter. I grew up in So. Cal. and wouldn't go back if you paid me. I am still close enough to visit if I ever get the urge. There's the lake and mountains within an hour of the strip and all the nightlife you can stand.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 6:43:55 PM EST
Arizona is as you say..  Pretty open..  The only negative is that the Tucson Newspapers will not advertise weapons for sale by private owners..   That sucks..
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 7:25:38 PM EST

Check out your Indiana gun laws if you've been carrying without a license. www.packing.org/state/index.jsp/indiana/ says that you need a permit to have a handgun in your car or to carry it on your person. It's shall issue, and the story on that page sounds like the process is nearly painless. It says that purchase does not require a license, but carry does.

Wyoming is also shall-issue, and a license is required to wear or carry concealed. Trunk of your car is OK without a license.

Arizona is open carry without a license and shall-issue for concealed carry. As long as the gun is holstered and the holster is visible, no license is necessary. Loaded in your car is OK with the same requirements.

Nevada is also open carry without a license and shall-issue for concealed carry, but Clark County (Las Vegas) has stricter laws.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 7:28:39 PM EST
Head east, dude! We have open, and concealed carry over here, we're class III, and we have a ton of ranges. The job market is pretty good, so you can buy "real" guns, and you can take 'em home the same day you buy 'em! Email me if you have any more specific questions.
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 8:30:04 PM EST
Its not an east coast west coast thing man.

Up here in Orygon and Washinton, our laws really aren't that bad.

I have a CHL and have always walked home the same day with the weapon of my choice.
I do have to give prints to buy a firearm, but they already have them due to the CHL.

Hell in washington, even us orygonians can and will receive a CHL from them, all over the mail.

So as you can see, it's not an east coast west thing, yet. (I feel like I'm on TRL)
Link Posted: 6/11/2002 9:30:21 PM EST
I'm a former Southern Californian too, now living in Texas.  California is dying, succumbing to rabid Socialism.  Everyone needs to watch California politicians closely, because a lot of the restrictive gun law initiatives are proposed by them, not only for their state but for federal adoption as well.

Another reason to leave California: now that the state is facing a $26 billion budget deficit, they are going to have to get real creative in finding ways to raise revenue for the state, namely via excessive taxation and fines.  That should raise the cost of living even higher.  As far as Commie gun laws, their latest proposal is the SCA-12 AMMO TAX, which would charge a tax of 5 cents (25 cents was also proposed) for EVERY BULLET sold!  And don't forget SB-682 and AB-496 in the works (see www.calnra.org for more info).

As far as where to live, there are still lots of free states, but sooner or later we'll probably all end up in Montana ;D
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 1:06:35 PM EST
Here in Ohio, I just walked into a gun store, told 'em what I wanted (Bushy AR-15 shorty), filled out a few papers, waited a few minutes for a background check, and walked out with the first gun I ever owned.  Total time spent:  about 20 minutes.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 1:35:17 PM EST
Move to Wyoming.  Tons of open land to shoot on.  Very little crime.  Half hour from the bigger cities in CO.  Best of all, my ffl doenst charge to do transfers.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 2:15:35 PM EST

Head east, dude! We have open, and concealed carry over here, we're class III, and we have a ton of ranges. The job market is pretty good, so you can buy "real" guns, and you can take 'em home the same day you buy 'em! Email me if you have any more specific questions.

dont forget that private sales are legal also
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 2:53:39 PM EST
Try Texas.
No State waiting period or restrictions of any type.  Get a CHL and you no longer have to have a NICs check, not to mention you can now carry concealed.  Just walk into the store hand them money and walk out with as many ARs and pistols as you can afford or carry, and don't forget to load one up and conceal it for the ride home.

Class 3 with no restrictions and there are still plenty of places to shoot MGs.

I just picked up another Signed Form 4 today from my County Sheriff for a M16.  Not to mention I can see the Texas Capital building from the storefront of my C3 dealer here in Austin. I don't think you can do that in Kali, walk out of the gunstore with an M16 within sight of the capital building.

Not to mention great year-round weather, and no State income tax.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 3:06:46 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 3:37:31 PM EST
Pennsylvania's good too, as long as you can live without hunting with a semi-auto rifle!
That's really not too big of a problem for me though since I usually hunt with black powder or shotgun. To some people though, that one law makes Pa. the equivalent of Ca.!
It's shall issue for carry permits, and private sales OK for anything but handguns (as far as I know, someone will correct me if I'm wrong though...).  Class III friendly too!
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 3:50:00 PM EST
Just try living in the People's Republic of Massachusetts.  The rules and regs are draconian, the laws confusing (even to the cops), and you even have to have a license to  possess Mace or pepper spray.  Since 1998 things here have gotten plain stupid.  Most handgun manufacturers will not ship to Mass, and seems no one will ship hi-cap mags here either.

I'm currently looking for a job in TX, or some other place more friendly (I mean the gun laws AND the people).  Plus housing up here is insane.  A $279,000 "starter home"?
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 4:22:40 PM EST
I can get SKS's shipped to my door along with semi auto pistols the next day. No waiting, I don't even have to fill out a form every time. It is paradise. (I have a curio FFL)
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 5:47:41 PM EST
I escaped PRK almost 10 years ago and never looked back. No regrets, either. I hope I never see that place again (miss my family, though).
I live in Louisiana now and it's alright in some ways. I can own most any firearm I want and I can carry in my vehicle like I was in my own house. We even have a "Shoot-the-Carjacker" law.
Do yourself a favor and leave. Anywhere but Kali.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 7:00:24 PM EST
Part of the problem I have with the idea of moving is that my experience in visiting other states is pretty low.  The only family outside the state that I've ever visited live in New Mexico and are just about as low down on the socioeconomic ladder as people can get, so my experiences with the style of life out there are not too favorable.  I'm not a snob; I'm from a lower-middle class working family, but when a young person doesn't realize for years that a particular city consists of anything other than gravel roads and trailer houses because the best way to the relatives' place is through the outskirts and no one ever goes into town for anything other than beer anyway, it distorts a person's perception of life outside his home.

The other problem is that I've lived in CA my whole life, and spent the first 19 years before college in the same city (Bakersfield).  The four years in college were spent in Stockton (a city that makes Bakersfield look a lot more refreshing than it did before I ever left), and for about 8 months I've been in the San JOse area.  So, just picking a state to move to seems like an incredibly difficult choice to make (you should see me trying to pick out a new deodorant or toothbrush to try).  

The climate is another factor that I think would limit my choices; I don't know if I would enjoy anything substantially different enough to warrant a relocation. I can handle a couple of months of 100+ heat if I have to (I'm from inland where triple digits are common june-august/sept), but when I see a national weather report in March discussing how Phoenix is up in the mid 90's already or how Dallas is at 105 with 80% humidity it makes me quiver.  I've never been a "cold" person, so I'd probably be too afraid to try the snowbelt.

There's lots of reasons to stay:  my longterm g/f lives here and likes being near her family, all of my friends are here, I have a B.S. in Biological Sciences which lends itself to getting employed at any of the dozens of biotech companies in the bay area, the climate (especially in the bay) rocks, etc.


I can't take this socialism anymore.  The morons in the state capital are running this state into the ground as fast as they possibly can, and enjoying it.  I read a story linked off of calnra.org today that mentioned speculation that the Commiecrats could take the november elections so forcefully that they'd have the governorship and a 2/3's majority in the state congress.  THat means that there wouldn't even be token resistance to the schemes that the moron Davis and co. come up with.  When I think about how many anti-gun laws have impelemented just during his watch, another term with him in charge and a complete ownership of everything else disgusts me.  Normally when I read people's comments that a PRK subject should get out of dodge, I understand their sentiment but I also see the nobility and the necessity for people to stay and fight.  I fear that if Davis stays in office, there won't be any point in fighting.  

I'm leaning towards Nevada....maybe REno. Hot, yes, but relatively close to my contacts in this state, no state income tax, ccw, and Class III.

Honestly, I can't imagine what it'd be like to own a machinegun.  When I see people talking about how much fun they have with their collection of automatic weapons, and I think about the abortion/Fab10 cali-legal AR type weapon I just bought this weekend, it makes me sick.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 10:10:57 PM EST
A few comments in reference to your own observations:

Your previous out-of-state experience: New Mexico, like Kalifornya, & Taxachussetts, is not a state to judge the rest of union by. To me, it exists as southwestern oxymoron, considering that its politics are rather left-leaning in general; gun laws are fairly strict by comparison to other southwestern states. I've never heard anything good about its economy, either.

Moving: Moving is tough to some extent, but it only gets tougher w/ age, so if you are seriously considering it, better do it sooner rather than later. FWIW, I left Kaly 7.5 years ago, in circumstances similar to yours. My main reason for leaving was that the state really had no opportunity to offer me. At that time, I was sort of on a sobatical from shooting, mainly due to hectic work + school schedules, etc., so the gun laws actually effected me very little at the time. Then (early 90's), the state was in a budget recession, too, & the final straw for me came when the legislature decided to start charging returning undergrad students (like me) nearly as much as non-residents. That, plus the lack of foreseeable decent job prospects or a better future, made me decide to cut & run. It has been tragically funny watching the state go to hell over the last 7.5 years. I will probably never return to live there, as I no longer trust the general voting public to any form of reason, much less Sacremento.

Now, I'm pursuing a (2nd) degree in CS at the UW as a resident (recently accepted ), paying resident fees, own a condo (outright) & enough evil black guns (though none FA) to make a Kalifornya democrat flush white & have syncopal episode. Look at one of the fun-n-gun shops I frequent:

In the background of this photo, there's an entire corner section devoted to the most evil BG's around. Just last week, I saw an M60 sitting on the counter FS. The Kalifornya legislature probably won't even allow a photo of one on any counter, anywhere. Maybe just displaying this photo on you monitor is a crime in Kali to, eh?

Weather: You'll adapt better than you think. Caveat emptor - the Northwest has mild weather, by comparison, & the rain isn't nearly as bad as outsiders would think.

Politics: It's amazing that the democrats are expected to carry the coming state election after digging it into a $26 billion financial hole. Shows how psueudo-religio-fanatic political alignments have become. Listening to some (eg. Alec Baldwin), you'd think the democratic party was the harbinger of the 2nd coming. Never thought I'd see a large public utility like PG&E fall into red ink, but the Kalifornya legislature made it happen. Apparently, the mass exodus in the 90's didn't teach them anything. Some people are far too stupid to learn.


FYI, in the Northwest area, ID & OR are C3-friendly. WA used to be - but at least we can still own suppressors here. CHL's are also shall-issue in WA. Really nice to go into a shop & buy a new toy & walk out the door w/ it that same day. Coming from Kali, I was floored the 1st time I learned of these 2 things.


Change only occurs when the pain exceeds the need. How much pain do you need to change?
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 10:32:44 PM EST
CaptainSanity, if you like, you can come out to Vegas for a long weekend and I can show you around. Hell, you can even crash at my house if money for a room is an issue.  If you can handle the heat (it's a dry heat, man!), southern Nevada is a great place to live.  Housing is inexpensive, jobs are available and entertainment is always available.  CCW is shall issue and simple to get. Open carry is perfectly legal, except in North Las Vegas.  Shoot me an email if you'd like a tour.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 10:52:21 PM EST
come to montana, even our democRATS brag about not voting for gun-control laws

you can help us drive out all the tree huggers from your state that have invaded too.
Link Posted: 6/13/2002 11:38:17 PM EST
I used to live in Southern PRK, but I now live in Minnesocold. The gun laws here arent that bad, and you can even rent a SMG at the range I shoot at! Other than that, Minnesota is a craphole. High taxes, tons of left-wing idiots and cold weather have sorta forced me to make a move. The move will be to Reno, NV.

I used to love Kalifornia for the mountains, ocean, and mostly the weather. I figure its still close if I move to Reno. Reno gets hot, but probably not as bad as LV...Am I correct? I know the winters there (in the valley) are much more mild than here. I figure its only 3-4 hours away from anything I would ever be interested in doing on the weekends.

Im 36, single and about to sell my house this September. I'm employable pretty much anywhere that I go...I just need to get out of this state.

If anyone is interested in moving to Reno also, let me know. Ive researched it for awhile now and I'm pretty sure that it's THE place for me to be.

Link Posted: 6/14/2002 12:00:14 AM EST
I absolutely love going into gun stores in Nevada! They have tons of the good stuff just hanging on the walls and suspended from the ceiling. Every square inch is dedicated to the evil gun. All that is illegal in CA is perfectly legal there.

It gets kind of embarrassing walking around with wood though.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 9:23:49 AM EST

Wow...Thanks for the offer.  While my plan to escape this place isn't solidified enough to take you up on it, I genuinely appreciate the hospitality.  While I'm leaning towards NV as a potential candidate, I'd probably pick Reno to be closer to northern california where all of my friends and immediate family are.

D.A....what makes you employable wherever you go?  What job will you pursue in Reno?  One of my goals is to make enough so that I can afford my pilot's license and a small plane; that way I could fly into CA, visit whoever, and then leave, even to the point of "commuting" here for a week at a time, returning home on the weekends if I wanted.

Master_Blaster:  If Davis wins relection, that will probably be the motivation I need.  His assault on the 2nd is sure to only accelerate in a second term, especially if they strengthen their strangle hold on the state houses.  Now, that was only one poll, and there are still five months to the election, so it's most definitely not a sure thing...but even if Simon wins he'll be so embattled that overturning these laws probably won't happen.  My ability to rationalize away dealing with big change and accepting current unpleasantness is large, but as you said, any state so stupid as to reelect someone who has managed the state he has doesn't deserve my freedom or taxes.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 9:48:40 AM EST


 Is it really as simple as walking into a dealer, filling out the fed's paperz, and walking out with any weapons a person wants? (not class III stuff, suppose I see two AR's and a couple of pistols).


Except I think the states must comply with the Brady Bill so here in Texas I guess you have to wait 5 days for a background check on a handgun BUT with my  CHL it's never been a factor for me.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 10:44:29 AM EST
I spent 8 years living in (hell) the Bay Area. I miss the scenery,easy access to diving and cool weather. Now I'm in the arid wastelands. Actually, it's pretty nice here. Summers are hellish, but there IS a high country (and cooler weather) within easy driving distance, Kalifornistan isn't too far away (unfortunately) and the desert does have it's own particular beauty, especially during cool weather or when it rains. Gun laws....open carry w/o license, my CCW took one weekend and cost $139, and now when I buy a gun I walk in, pick it out,show the CCW, answer yes,no,no,no,no,no, pay and out I go. I think it took all of 10 minutes to buy my Sig-the place was busy on a Friday night. No this isn't Commiefornia, but it's all in all pretty decent. And the people here aren't wound anywhere nearly as tight as the ones there.
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 1:40:44 PM EST

Here in NH you just walk in to a fun store, plop down your cash, fill out the fed form and wait for the phone approval. No FOID cards,
no visiting the local LEO. I've never waited more than 10 minutes for approval for a long rifle or a pistol. NH is a shall issue state and I beleive open carry is also legal ( though I've never tried it). The only restriction I know of is you can't have a loaded weapon in a car.

Link Posted: 6/14/2002 3:27:59 PM EST
Link Posted: 6/14/2002 4:06:31 PM EST

captain...bulletfest is june 29th.

fly yourself out to ohio...no need to bring guns, there will be plenty for you to borrow.

after you spend fifteen minutes on the firing line with machineguns buzzing all around you...well, let's just say the next phone call you make will be to an ohio real estate agent!

Damn!  I have to go to a wedding on the 29th, otherwise I'd seriously consider it.

Maybe next year!
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