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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 9/12/2010 11:15:06 PM EDT
Nope, not a call out thread. You've started to win me back over to wanting a STG556 again. Others. sell me on the idea. I keep going from wanting one to not wanting one. Tell me your good and your bad experiences.....Thanks.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 3:37:52 AM EDT
I have a Gen 3 STG and it has been flawless. It has never malfunctioned and is very accurate. I too looked at other posts over a year ago for quite awhile before making my purchase. If the AUG 3 had been out at the time for close to the same price, would I have bought it?...Well I could afford to buy an AUG 3 still right now but I am happy with what I have. There are issues with MSAR and some product. We have all read everything on both sides and some people have legitimate complaints. I look at it this way. For me what have I gained and what have I lost by making my decision to buy MSAR over the AUG A3...nothing. I am not better off nor worse off, I am happy with what I have and enjoy my purchase w/o any regrets.
For what it's worth that's my story.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 3:41:51 AM EDT
I'm at nearly 3K rounds, and the only issues I've had have been with Wolf ammo, but hey it's Wolf, it's not uncommon. Has been perfect with everything else.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 4:07:59 AM EDT
After learning much about the owner of MSAR, his business practices, the high employee turnover (fucked over) rate, and the very high rate of product returns, I've decided to stay away.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 4:09:23 AM EDT
What sold me was the price compared to the AUG. Its more compact then an AR with 14.5in barrel. Quick change barrel. Easy conversions.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 4:19:00 AM EDT
I have personal experience w/6 STG-556's w/round counts from 3K down to only a few hundred rds & serial numbers ranging from early Gen2 to late Gen4 (E4-compatible).
Personal problems I've encountered:
One had FTE's right out of the box, MSAR fixed it ASAP.
A number of broken early-style extractors (none of the new-style have broken).
Two broken bolt sleeves (high round counts).
One gas regulator missing the "heavy" gas setting hole.
A couple of the earlier rifles needed a hundred rds or so through them before the bolt would reliably lock back after the last shot (at the time I thought it was mag-related).
All are 100% reliable w/brass-cased ammo but reliability w/steel-cased ammo varies from rifle to rifle (the higher the round count the more reliable they seem to become, an unscientific observation). Mine seem to like Brown Bear better than Silver Bear or Wolf and Tula is simply horrible, too weak to lock the bolt back even on the "heavy" gas setting (YMMV).

Yes, I've had my share of "teething problems" but if the rifles weren't reliable now I simply wouldn't own them. I've come to love the shortness & manueverability of the STG so much that I cannot see myself ever going back willingly to a full-length platform.
Tomac

STG-556 w/E4 optic rail, Raptor charging handle, Halon flash suppressor (haven't refinished it yet), Magpul MBUS, Aimpoint Micro, Neu-Trigger, 9" accessory rail, Elzetta ZORM light mount, Fenix TK20 taclight, std 70" "silent" sling & 42rd mag:
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:10:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JoeCoastie:
Nope, not a call out thread. You've started to win me back over to wanting a STG556 again. Others. sell me on the idea. I keep going from wanting one to not wanting one. Tell me your good and your bad experiences.....Thanks.


I had an E4, sold it to raise funds for closing costs. I am trying HARD to save for another one. Great little gun.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:58:59 AM EDT
I've had my STG for 9 months now and have put about 900 rounds through it. No problems here and it cycles ammo my M4 chokes on. I rarely take my M4 to the range anymore and have halted two other AR builds to save for another MSAR.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 6:15:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 6:23:14 AM EDT by Onslaught]
I have owned ARs since 1993 and had as many as 9 at one time. I'm down to only 4 now.

I bought one of the first batch of E4's to come out (serial number ending in 1xx). I have only had it to the range twice, but it has run without a hiccup through 600 rounds of brass cased XM855. The felt recoil and muzzle climb is so much less. I can keep my aimpoint on the target through the entire firing sequence, and double-taps are so fast my father-in-law thought the MSAR was fully automatic. What finally won me was the balance and short OAL. It just felt, shouldered, and balanced so much better than my beloved ARs.

I put out a feeler here in the forums that I would swap a very nice AR with name brand bells and whistles for one of the "broken" E4s that people were posting about. Well, I got one very interesting character indeed to take me up on my offer with an E4 (serial number 8xx) that was giving him feeding issues. I sent the stock in back to MSAR for the mag catch upgrade before firing. Took it out over the weekend and let my nephew fire 300 rounds through it without any issues. I have only used PMags in them, but that's half of my mag collection these days anyway.

I'm going to stop at 2 MSARs for now, but I am very happy with mine. I have really needed to sell SOMETHING of value to pay off a CC since the birth of my third child in April, but I have not been able to part with the E4s. A couple of the ARs, though they have less resale value, may go instead an E4. I don't think I could ever be happy with an MSAR as my ONLY 5.56 magazine fed weapon, but I don't think I could ever be without at least one bullpup in the collection either.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 7:25:53 AM EDT
Give MSAR credit where credit is due.
The Clinton gun ban left a lot of people without an AUG that wanted one. An Aug was never a cheap rifle. The week before the ban a NIB AUG was $900 at the gun show. A month after the ban was the same rifle was $2200 and the USR was $1800. Move to the year 2000. I passed one USR for $2800 and a green preban for $3500. Most of the rifles for sale were $4500. Magazines were expensive, Spare parts hard to find. Barrels bringing what complete rifles had sold for new. The big downside the original AUG was that the optic was part of the receiver. Very few receivers were produces with a scope mount and the "donut of death" was about the only way you could get an AUG.
Step in MSAR. They promised us and AUG for under 2K. Not an exact clone, but they promised to keep the original features and add a couple of improvements. Best thing they did was make the factory optic removable and offer a replacement rail so you could add the optic of your choice. That alone made up for the poor choice of keeping proprietary mags and not getting the conversions or silenced barrels out in a reasonable time. Now you can get a MSAR AUG for 1500 that takes AR mags. You can also find an STG-556 for under $1K .
Steyr USA and TXPD both jumped on the band wagon and promised us AUGS. We got them. Both at a higher price than the MSAR.
Yes, you might buy a MSAR and it might have some issues. I had to send my tan limited edition back. It has worked fine since.
If it wasn't for MSAR there wouldn't be any AUG's except the preban ones.
As for me, I like my MSAR. If it had a better trigger I would love it.
All I can say is
THANK YOU MSAR FOR GIVING US AN AFFORDABLE AUG.
Now please get us some service reps .
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:15:00 AM EDT
Only had magazine issues with mine.

Sometimes the follower would get stuck but after all the carbine competitions I've been to all the mags work now.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 8:52:47 AM EDT
Just avoid the factory optic. Get a rail top version.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:01:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Alex_B69:
Just avoid the factory optic. Get a rail top version.

I was seriously considering the optic version that CDNN is selling. I was going to instantly pop the scope off and sell it on the EE and then put the long rail on top with BUIS' and either a Millet DMS-1 or Sparc.......just need to convince myself to not buy an FAL or ACR instead.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:25:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JoeCoastie:

Originally Posted By Alex_B69:
Just avoid the factory optic. Get a rail top version.

I was seriously considering the optic version that CDNN is selling. I was going to instantly pop the scope off and sell it on the EE and then put the long rail on top with BUIS' and either a Millet DMS-1 or Sparc.......just need to convince myself to not buy an FAL or ACR instead.


If you can get your hands on an ACR to test drive it, do so. I don't think you'll be impressed. My brother bought one ($2100 impulse purchase) and sold it two weeks later. It's not a bad weapon, it's just sort of, blah, I guess. The bolt release is a work of genius, but other than that, it's heavy and the buttstock is WAY too short and I'm only 5'10". IMO it is over-hyped and under-delivers. Hard to argue with a FAL though. I'd still get the STG, but I love mine, so I am biased.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:31:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By joedirt1977:
Originally Posted By JoeCoastie:

Originally Posted By Alex_B69:
Just avoid the factory optic. Get a rail top version.

I was seriously considering the optic version that CDNN is selling. I was going to instantly pop the scope off and sell it on the EE and then put the long rail on top with BUIS' and either a Millet DMS-1 or Sparc.......just need to convince myself to not buy an FAL or ACR instead.


If you can get your hands on an ACR to test drive it, do so. I don't think you'll be impressed. My brother bought one ($2100 impulse purchase) and sold it two weeks later. It's not a bad weapon, it's just sort of, blah, I guess. The bolt release is a work of genius, but other than that, it's heavy and the buttstock is WAY too short and I'm only 5'10". IMO it is over-hyped and under-delivers. Hard to argue with a FAL though. I'd still get the STG, but I love mine, so I am biased.


A friend of mine, Balki, has one. He bought the basic version. I hated it. Way too front heavy. He had the bbl cut down to 14.5 and had an AAC suppressor mount permattached by ADCO. He also got the folding stock. I like it a lot more. It still is a very expensive rifle. I'll definitely give it a run if he lets me.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:38:17 AM EDT
Love my STG even more so after lastnight. It holds folks dead in their tracks. Ok,ok,ok maybe it was the green UniMax laser on center chest that does it.

But really, I love ours more than anyother semi-auto rifle I have owned. Runs pretty clean less quick take down. QD barrel, shorter than my 11.5 SBR AR and my 11" AR57.

Lots of cool add on's coming out for them month to month (or so).

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:44:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JoeCoastie:

Originally Posted By joedirt1977:
Originally Posted By JoeCoastie:

Originally Posted By Alex_B69:
Just avoid the factory optic. Get a rail top version.

I was seriously considering the optic version that CDNN is selling. I was going to instantly pop the scope off and sell it on the EE and then put the long rail on top with BUIS' and either a Millet DMS-1 or Sparc.......just need to convince myself to not buy an FAL or ACR instead.


If you can get your hands on an ACR to test drive it, do so. I don't think you'll be impressed. My brother bought one ($2100 impulse purchase) and sold it two weeks later. It's not a bad weapon, it's just sort of, blah, I guess. The bolt release is a work of genius, but other than that, it's heavy and the buttstock is WAY too short and I'm only 5'10". IMO it is over-hyped and under-delivers. Hard to argue with a FAL though. I'd still get the STG, but I love mine, so I am biased.


A friend of mine, Balki, has one. He bought the basic version. I hated it. Way too front heavy. He had the bbl cut down to 14.5 and had an AAC suppressor mount permattached by ADCO. He also got the folding stock. I like it a lot more. It still is a very expensive rifle. I'll definitely give it a run if he lets me.


Do you also know a Cousin Larry?
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:46:35 AM EDT
I have fired nothing but Wolf 55grn through mine with out a single problem.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:51:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By joedirt1977:
Originally Posted By JoeCoastie:

Originally Posted By joedirt1977:
Originally Posted By JoeCoastie:

Originally Posted By Alex_B69:
Just avoid the factory optic. Get a rail top version.

I was seriously considering the optic version that CDNN is selling. I was going to instantly pop the scope off and sell it on the EE and then put the long rail on top with BUIS' and either a Millet DMS-1 or Sparc.......just need to convince myself to not buy an FAL or ACR instead.


If you can get your hands on an ACR to test drive it, do so. I don't think you'll be impressed. My brother bought one ($2100 impulse purchase) and sold it two weeks later. It's not a bad weapon, it's just sort of, blah, I guess. The bolt release is a work of genius, but other than that, it's heavy and the buttstock is WAY too short and I'm only 5'10". IMO it is over-hyped and under-delivers. Hard to argue with a FAL though. I'd still get the STG, but I love mine, so I am biased.


A friend of mine, Balki, has one. He bought the basic version. I hated it. Way too front heavy. He had the bbl cut down to 14.5 and had an AAC suppressor mount permattached by ADCO. He also got the folding stock. I like it a lot more. It still is a very expensive rifle. I'll definitely give it a run if he lets me.


Do you also know a Cousin Larry?


LarryG? Yeah, I know him too!
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:51:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By R_Fury:
I have fired nothing but Wolf 55grn through mine with out a single problem.


That's my thing. MY SBR AR will eat anything I feed it. I want my STG to do the same. One of my apprehensions.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 9:56:31 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 9:56:43 AM EDT by asu174]
That's my thing. MY SBR AR will eat anything I feed it. I want my STG to do the same. One of my apprehensions.


My SBR eats everything. The STG is back getting repaired for eating nothing.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 10:03:45 AM EDT
My 7.5" and 11" SBR AR's eat everything I feed it AND my MSAR E4 does also. I installed a Battle Comp on my E4, this time without the check nut and needed to make sure POI did not shift. Last night I ran 300 rounds of crappy Wolf through it most of which were mag dumps. ZERO malfs of any kind so once again it runs 100%. The receiver, barrel and gas-block got so hot I had to let it cool down for almost 30 minutes (didn't want to melt the carry case) before I could put it in it's nylon case and go home.

One happy camper,
MadDog
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:05:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JoeCoastie:

Originally Posted By R_Fury:
I have fired nothing but Wolf 55grn through mine with out a single problem.


That's my thing. MY SBR AR will eat anything I feed it. I want my STG to do the same. One of my apprehensions.



I broke mine in with 200rds of m193....after that it's been all wolf. No problems at all.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 11:46:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 12:54:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 1:53:13 PM EDT by Mav3rick]
I currently own on E4.

Issues:
1) I Had feeding problems with some of the 5 mags I got with it. If I put more than 15 rounds in some of them the followers would have issues causing feeding issues. Still waiting on MSAR to fix/replace them with working mags. Until they get replaced I picked up and use a couple of pmags.

2) I Had some issues with gun not cycling/bolt locking back. Seemed I had to run rifle on "H" setting for a while. After putting around 400 or so rounds though the gun starting working reliably on the standard gas setting. Now I can even shoot wolf or bear ammo through it without any issues.

3) One day after a range trip while breaking down the BCG to clean everything I found my cam was broken in 3 different pieces. The rifle had less than 600 rounds though it. I was unable to get a hold of Dave at the time to replace it, but ratworx was able to send me out a replacement cam. It only took a minute to push the pin out of the bolt and install the new cam. Funny thing was that the day it happened the rifle fired every shot. This leaves me to wonder the following: "did it break on my very last shot that day or did it break but somehow keep firing and it wasn't until I took the BCG down that the cam came apart into pieces?"

4)At the time when I got my E4 I paid an extra $300 for an optic model and the optic didn't work. I was and still am a little irritated how MSAR handled the whole thing. This has been discussed and beaten to death already, so no point in continuing the conversation. FWIW-if you buy one, just get the top rail version and put a red dot or scope on it.

I bought my E4 last December. I was pretty new to guns and shooting and went with it over getting an AR from a friends recommendation. Do I regret skipping the AR over this-no. Do I still want an AR-yes. For the most part I have been pretty happy with my E4 and have enjoyed shooting it. I was lucky enough not to have too many issues with mine and it has worked pretty good for the most part. Mine still has the plastic mag release and I am still debating on getting it replaced with the SS catch. Unlike many unfortunate souls, I have not had any problems with mags getting stuck or hard to remove and right now I don't know if it is worth sending in my stock to have them put the catch on. It seems some are waiting a long time to get their stuff back from MSAR and they are really backed up right now. I figure maybe wait until MSAR has completed their move and are back up and running 100%, but some say that may never happen or at least not happen for awhile. In summary, I really like the rifle, but the company is a little unreliable at the moment. Hopefully that will improve soon. YMMV-good luck...
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 1:50:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/13/2010 1:57:15 PM EDT by SilentType]
You know when you hear complaints you have to recognize that most the times you're only getting one half of the story. Even when Dave worked for MSAR he never got into arguments with folks here or said anything about them negatively ever or otherwise even though there were some who were total pricks to Dave. You get guys that want "parts" and don't send in their rifles and then you get guys with real deal problems, but they are something really tricky for MSAR, because YES to deliver us cost affordable rifles MSAR did contract out their optics and does contract out their barrels (the barrels though are from Green Mountain and they are REALLY good). So sometimes #$%@ happens, but I'll tell you I have NEVER seen MSAR not try their absolute hardest to please every customer (hell if need be Tony the CEO will get on the phone with you even though he's juggling two companies in two different locations right now). Then though you get these real jackasses who drink pure hateraid for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and those are the folks that have never owned an MSAR who like to drop their two cents and some even go so far as to make up lies like "MSAR is going out of business." Yeah, we've been hearing MSAR is going out of business since they started selling their STG and everyone seems to have some proof they just can't share with us. Of course, it's all crap. MSAR has been cruising along since 07' and long before that they were making knives that are still really popular among knife guys.

Look if there were two companies making AR rifles and that was it you'd probably see the same craziness.

I purchased my STG556 in 2008 about a year after they came out as a Gen 2/3 (jagdkommando flash suppressor and the last OD stocks to be made with the forward assist). I paid $1750.00 to get it home and that was a deal at the time on gunbroker. That's not chump change for me and that's a lot of money. I'll tell ya all the free stuff in the world wouldn't make me happy if my STG that I shelled out cash wasn't working so this whole notion that MSAR buys off folks like me with free stuff is total bullshit. How would I be happy with free magazines if the only rifle I can use them with didn't work? Would I really be singing their praises if it was prone to failures or just totally sucked? No way. Honestly, if the STG didn't perform like I wanted it to I'd keep my mouth shut, drop it on the E&E or Gunbroker and be done with it back to the world of ARs where I came frome. However, for over two years now and 3K+ in ammo through it I've been good-to-go. I can count on one hand the number of malfunctions I've had and I can chalk that up to one bad magazine and stuck case from crap ammo. Cleared them and moved on firing like I have with other firearms. No biggie.

Early on when I purchased my STG my charging handle was being chewed up pretty good. Being mildly OCD it bugged me so I complained about it and expecting just one charging handle I end up being sent three for good measure.

Many of the older folks here lead a campaign to do something about the high height of the STG rail, because it was PITA to cowitness BUIS with your primary optic with it since BUIS and various optic mounts are all AR centered. MSAR heard our demands and incorporated it into their E4 rail and sent a few of us who had offered our ideas free ones. Solved my BUIS cowitness issue and did exactly what I wanted. Now I've dealt with other companies before with similar requests and it's like talking to a wall. So MSAR's customer service goes beyond just talking to you when you've got a problem. A lot of the changes in the E4 came from folks here asking for them.

A lot of folks complain that they purchased a GEN 1 or GEN 2 and now their resale value sucks. Well, if you want an investment go buy bonds or gold. Truth is that every advance MSAR has made they've made darn sure to make it so that the previous owners can upgrade. I've upgraded my GEN 2/3 to a smooth stock, have the new E4 bolt and bolt carrier I'm running now, and if I had been inclined to do so I could have had my STG converted to take the E4 stock. If I buy an E4 barrel I can slap it on my STG. Nobody skips a beat. Heck, I'm sure in 10 years the MSAR rifles being produced will look really different, but I'm also sure I'll be able to upgrade if I want to. Other companies, you can't do that. There have been many companies that produce a certain rifle and then just drop it...that's it no more support or good luck ever seeing the thing evolve to keep pace with what is new.

One of things that I admit I fell for on here were folks trying to convice me that I had to baby my STG at first. "Oh your STG can't handle steel cased low pressure .223 you'll have all kinds of issues," some folks told me. Guess what? I'm cranking brown bear through it by the case now with no issues so far. I'll probably try some Wolf and maybe even Tula once I run through the Brown Bear and it's not going to worry me.

MSAR isn't a perfect company. They're not a mil contractor. They probably should do a lot more R&D before they issue a new rifle like the E4. They've got employe issues that can translate to quality sometimes, which is part of the reason for the move. All and all though I've been a happy camper with the STG556 and have found them to be like Uncle MSAR that I can call up when I need them for help. My STG556 is my PRIMARY Home Defense carbine and I rest safe at night knowing that, because it has proven itself to me again and again.


At the end of the day the MSAR guys were guys looking to take a rifle they really loved and do something more with it. It's a great rifle that's the product of a lot of wisdom and experience.




Link Posted: 9/13/2010 3:13:21 PM EDT
well guys I think you've persuaded me enough. I just put two of my toys up in the EE to fund this thing. I think I'm gonna get the E-4.

Is ratworx going to get any more green E-4s in stock before the end of the sale? I can settle for black but would prefer green.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 4:03:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By snaggletooth1925:
What sold me was the price compared to the AUG. Its more compact then an AR with 14.5in barrel. Quick change barrel. Easy conversions.


now that's funny
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 4:25:51 PM EDT
At the end of the day the MSAR guys were guys looking to take a rifle they really loved and do something more with it. It's a great rifle that's the product of a lot of wisdom and experience.
WOW.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 4:46:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JoeCoastie:
well guys I think you've persuaded me enough. I just put two of my toys up in the EE to fund this thing. I think I'm gonna get the E-4.

Is ratworx going to get any more green E-4s in stock before the end of the sale? I can settle for black but would prefer green.


Glad to hear about your decision. I really think that you will be happy with it. When you get it break that puppy in for a few hundred 556 rounds. The take down crossbolt can and will be a bear to push out to release the receiver from the stock. It will get better after several times. I can now use my finger to push it out. I use to have to drift it out with a bic pen and a swift few hits with my palm. Like someone here(forgot who) said that the STG/E4 owners can now kill with our fingers.

Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:03:04 PM EDT
Keep the cardboard box they ship it out in. It will come in handy eventually.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 5:05:40 PM EDT
Conversions are coming. Just how long we will have to wait is anyone's guess.
Part of Msar's plan all along was to get a 6.8 in production. Other calibers have been added to the proposed list.
Since the price drop I assume that most people that wanted a MSAR Aug have one. As soon as the the E4's sales slow down
below the amount produced then we will get the pistol caliber carbines or the caliber conversions. It all depends on what
MSAR marketing feels will sell the best and continue to sell after the initial run.
I like Msar's products. It does seem to take awhile for changes to get rolled out.

I am still waiting to see the first Msar rifle that Msar can't or won't fix.
Yeah you haters, where are these piles of defective rifles?

I am ready for a new generation of Aug based bull pups . The bull pup with the free floated barrel, good trigger, ambidextrous controls, and gas system that will handle a suppressor. Maybe Msar will be the company to produce it. Msar has built us an American made Aug. Is it perfect ? Not yet. Every generation gets us a littler closer.
Do I regret buying a Msar ? Yes and no. I like my STG-556 but wish I had held out for an E4. An E4 was the Aug I wanted.
Knowing what I know now about Msar and it's company would I buy a Msar rifle if I didn't own one? You bet.
In fact when the caliber conversions finally roll out I will find a way to finance an E-4 in 6.8.
I hope the promised match triggers will roll out at the same time.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 6:06:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By texasyid:
At the end of the day the MSAR guys were guys looking to take a rifle they really loved and do something more with it. It's a great rifle that's the product of a lot of wisdom and experience.
WOW.

Some very experienced individuals worked on the STG design. Some pretty smart guys. Pete Athens was one of them and MSAR was smart enough to get him on the team for the design. Tony himself has a number of patents and knows what he's doing.

If you look at the differences in design it's hard to claim they weren't a good idea no matter where you sit. Take the way the top optic rail mounts for example. Way improved over the older optic rail design. TPD did a redesign of that top rail as well when they did their AXR. Bolt sleeve was a good change up as well and that is just so plainly obviously from someone with experience recognizing that.

When MSAR decided they wanted to do a firearm they looked at everything out there basically. They decided to do something different that nobody else was doing on a rifle many had written off as regulated to a collector's item. MSAR dumped a ton of money and effort into the STG project and took a big risk with it.

Tony himself is a serious gun nut. He's got a HUGE private collection of very nice firearms and I know this, because he's auctioned off a few from time to time.
Link Posted: 9/13/2010 6:54:18 PM EDT
SilentType is pretty much dead-on with what he's saying. If you take the rifles for what they are (more feature packed than anything else) at the price (less than everything else) you've got a no-brainer. MSAR is the way to go.

I've said this before and I'll say it again though... just make sure you spend some of the money you saved getting an MSAR on spare parts. It doesn't take much. They're quality parts, I have a few in my AXR.

The topic of my AXR is a good reason you should be able to support the rifle on your own if you have to. First of all, you should have spare parts on hand for any weapon you rely on no matter how common they are, because you never know when they'll get un-common. And as with the AXR, because companies can and do go out of existence you may not be able to call the manufacturer one day and have parts sent to your door via the big brown truck of happiness.

With the AXR and AUG A3 SA, you're in a bit better situation because all of the parts are "mil-spec" so to speak, and they will by and large swap out with samples from Steyr in Austria. Steyr contracts to the government, and the AUG is a service rifle, and they are pretty unlikely to stop making spare parts available any time soon. Pete Athens kept the AUG market supplied with spare parts when Steyr's importers in the US had no interest in doing so. The problem is that some parts in an MSAR won't swap with their Steyr counterparts. So if MSAR ever goes away (and that's a big if, but it could happen) you might end up SOL if your bolt breaks, or any number of other calamities.

The same story goes for other small-time makers. I just bought an LWRC upper, and I plan to get spare parts for it that might not be able to be replaced easily one day. Just in case. And I have an extra bolt, piston/regulator, and trigger pack for my AXR. Do the same with the MSAR and you should be good to go.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 1:12:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JoeCoastie:

Is ratworx going to get any more green E-4s in stock before the end of the sale? I can settle for black but would prefer green.


I have been watching these posts regarding the E4 and finally put in order last week. The rifle is suppose to be delivered tomorrow. Suck part is that I am traveling and will not be able to pick it up until the weekend.

Sorry JoeCoastie, I bought the last green stock they had. I asked Aaron at Ratworx when they planned on getting more of the green stock one's and he told me that he did not know.
Link Posted: 9/14/2010 6:50:00 PM EDT
you snooze, you loose
please post pics with a range report when you get time
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