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9/19/2017 7:27:10 PM
Posted: 3/1/2002 8:29:29 PM EDT
I've just given my Springfield Armory 1911 to my younger brother (he's just getting started in the pistol shootin game so I figured I'd give him a hand and start him out right). Now here's my predicament. I'm thinking of buying a new 9mm and am leaning towards buying a Sig. I've heard lots of good about the P226 but I don't really know how the grip would fit my smallish hands. So, I'm considering taking a look at the P220. Does anyone have any experience with both of these pistols. What are the differences (other than grip thickness/mag capacity) if any? Thanks.

hsld.
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 10:13:01 PM EDT
Most of the P220's you see down here are .45ACP, so I'm not sure about the mag capacity of the P220 in 9mm. I assume it's around 9 or 10. I own both models, a P226 in 9mm, and a P220 in .45. The P220 is single stack, but the grip panels are slightly thincker. In the end the P220 has a slightly skinnier grip than the P226. The size of the P220 would be similar to you 1911 if it were wearing the rubber grips (like Pachmayrs)that have the portion in front. It's not much different than what you're used to.

The P226 is close to the same size, but the corners are slightly thicker to accomodate the hi-cap. It feels ever so slightly thicker than the P220. My P228 and the P229 series, use a different grip panel that is slimer, and they have quite a comfortable grip for small hands.

A great choice may be the P225. It uses a single stack mag, and is basically a compact P220. Sort of like Commander size with a slightly shorter grip. The P228 is basically a hi-cap version of the P225, but the P225 has an even more comfortable grip than the already very comfortable P228.

With our mag capacity restrictions down here most people go for the bigger bore over just a couple extra rounds, so there's not a big market for single stack 9mm's. It's a pity because a single stack 9mm in a full-size gun is one easy gun to shoot.

Ross
Link Posted: 3/1/2002 10:46:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:
p220 is a .45 , but 9mm sucks anyway. in situations when you may need to kill someone fast. .45 has better stoping power. 9mm just basiclly annoys the person. you have to shoot at least 6 or more shots before the guy stops to think he got hit. on the 9mm. after one .45 the guy is down fast with one maybe 2 shots. My dad is a Houston P.D. and he carries a sig p220 .45 he got into a shoot out with a guy and it took 1 shot to end the situation. his buddy who got into another shoot out months later, used a 9mm. it took 2.5 clips to stop the guy. see the difference. Go with the SIG P220 .45 it is the best. durable too! goes through anything and still shoots!



I'd say the difference is the far better marksmanship of your dad. Did the other officer really shoot a badguy 37 times (assuming 15rd mags) and didn't stop him? Sounds more like your dad is just a great shot under real stress, which is what really counts.

The P220 is available in .45, 9mm, and .38 Super. It's just there's such a small market for the latter two calibers down here in the US that you rarely see them. higspeedlowdrag is up in Canada, so he may have better availabilty on the other calibers.

As far as the performance of the Sig in .45...well, I sold my Gold Cup after buying the Sig P220/.45 because it outshot the Colt, and did so without any reliablilty problems. It's been the best all around .45ACP semi-auto that I've owned (and I specifically bought it as a .45 )

Ross
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 3:29:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 5:37:57 AM EDT
I own both a P220 (.45) and a P228 (9mm). I love both guns but find the P228 fits my hand perfectly, while the P220 is a little big. I probably fit the size profile of a large percentage of American males (200 lbs, 6'1") so I wonder what size hand the P220 was designed for.

Unfortunately, P228's are out there but a little rare considering that Sig only sells them to LEO's now. If you can find a used one, I'd lean that way. A word of caution, the 13 round hicaps for the P228 are not cheap. Factory ones are running around $80-100. If you go the P228 route, I'd pick up a 13 round and carry the 15 round mag from the 226 (running around $50-70) as a backup. Also, don't be tempted by aftermarket mags. While some work fine, I would only trust my life to Sig factory mags. I've never had a mag-related failure in my P228 in 4000+ rounds with a Sig mag.

Good luck.

Regards,
SOL
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 7:50:49 AM EDT
You can't go wrong with either. I've got a P229 in .40SW and P226(9mm). I've shot friend's P228 and P220. All are top of the line guns.

IMHO, the P226 is a great carry gun. It's really light and has very little recoil. There are still lots of after market magazines around for $15 to $20.

Also an advantage of the P226 over P220 is that 9mm ammo is much cheaper than .45ACP.

If you want stopping power, get the P220 but I believe a P226 with 147gr Hydroshocks or 115gr Corbons will stop the perp in his tracks.

Good luck,

Spambo
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 7:58:32 AM EDT
Sniper: One shot...One Kill. CQB: Two in the chest...One in the head. No need to empty out any mags men. LOS
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 2:58:48 PM EDT
[/p220 is a .45 , but 9mm sucks anyway. in situations when you may need to kill someone fast. .45 has better stoping power. 9mm just basiclly annoys the person. you have to shoot at least 6 or more shots before the guy stops to think he got hit. on the 9mm. after one .45 the guy is down fast with one maybe 2 shots.]
Look at Evan Marshall's stats. These are the bible in reagards to stopping power. 9mm 115g +P+ is rated at 91% one shot stop. 2.5 magazines is a testament to the officers shooting ability.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 3:56:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2002 3:57:04 PM EDT by HiramRanger]
OK, I've got a couple of glasses of wine in me so I'm feeling feisty. I own most of the major calibres for auto handguns - several niners, .45, .40, .357 Sig, .380, 9 mak, .32, .22, .38 special...

If it takes you more than two shots of 9mm to put someone down the problem ain't the gun or the round baby, its the friggin idiot carrying it. My usual carry piece is my Kimber Ultra CDP in .45, not for the round but for the way it feels and how it carries. I'm equally comfortable carrying my Kahr MK9. Why? Because I phucking hit where I aim.

The only reason a 9mm bullet is going to annoy someone is because I've just put the phucking thing between their eyes and they won't be getting that hummer they were rushing to the corner to get from that nickel ho with the money they hoped to mug from me.

OK, I've said my peace. BTW, remond me not to ever bring your father's partner to a gun fight, he sounds like more of a threat to me than the bad guys. Your dad however can watch my back any time.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 6:57:19 PM EDT
I have a sig 229 in 40 s&w. I love it
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 8:00:42 PM EDT
P220 in 45. You can take it to any high capacity magazine unfriendly state and feel "welcome". I just got back from California with mine.
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 8:43:57 PM EDT
I can tell you from EXPERIENCE,that a 220 is the way to go. I've carried a 220 for five years and have ended a few situations with no more than a shot or two. I don't get into war stories or bragging, but I did carry a nine until my first shooting, the results led me to my 45.. I work with guys who swear by S&W , but Sig is proven it's worth to me!
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 9:41:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2002 9:45:17 PM EDT by highspeedlowdrag]
Thanks for the replies guys. One of the reasons why I'm asking about the P220 in 9mm is because of the mag restrictions we have up here (10 rnds. max for handguns - no such thing as legal preban hi-caps up here). I figure, since the P220 is a 10 rounder (I think), it should fit my hand nicely (due to the slimmer grip profile). Furthermore, if I opted for the P226, my mag limit would still be 10 rnds anyways (so why bother with the double stack grip profile?). Regarding the 9mm vs. .45acp issue, I'm sure everyone has their reasons for choosing one over the other. I'll only be using the pistol for punching holes in paper so "knockdown power" isn't really all that high on my list of reasons for purchasing the pistol.

Cheers.
hsld.

PS. I forgot to mention that although I would love to have been able to buy a P228 or P225, the laws up here prevent anyone who doesn't already own what's called a "Prohibited" class firearm from being able to purchase one. And, any handgun with a barrel length less than 4 inches falls under the Prohibited firearms class. Bummer!
Link Posted: 3/2/2002 9:57:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By highspeedlowdrag:
I figure, since the P220 is a 10 rounder (I think



The Sig P220 has 7 or 8 rd. mags. (the old ones are seven most new ones are 8) You can get 10 rd. mags but they will stick out.
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 4:39:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 10-X:

Originally Posted By highspeedlowdrag:
I figure, since the P220 is a 10 rounder (I think



The Sig P220 has 7 or 8 rd. mags. (the old ones are seven most new ones are 8) You can get 10 rd. mags but they will stick out.



Once again, he's talking about the 9mm P220, which holds 9 rounds in the mag. The 9mm P220 is the standard handgun of several countries, and produced in a couple countries under license. Just because they aren't poular in the US doesn't mean they aren't popular in other countries.

highspeedlowdrag-
Hmm....I didn't know about the 4inch restriction. I would see no reason to go with the P226 if you're only gaining one round and alot of wasted space. Other options could be the Sig P210, which isn't cheap, but would definately fill the bill. Both the HK P7 and P9 have 4+ inch barrels I believe. I know my P9 (9mm) will outshoot any other handgun I own with ease, including my P7 (9mm), and my P7 will take most in the accuracy department. The P7's an 8rd and P9's a 9rd gun. They both take some getting used to, but they shoot great.

Another route is to get some model of 1911 in 9mm (unless that's what you gave away). You're already used to it, and with a steel frame they're a very mild gun to shoot.

Ross
Link Posted: 3/3/2002 6:15:32 AM EDT
ive got smallish hands as well. tried the Sig 226 and a H&K USP 9mm the sig fit much better. besides the H&K full plastic/squarish grip doesnt to anything for me excpet feel horrible. since the 226 will only be your target gun (on average, it may happen that it is the only one nearby when SHTF) you should stick with the factory grips. i got the crimson trace laser grips for mine. very nice btw. good checkering for grip. button is under middle finger tip. it made the grip a hair bigger, larger left side (battaries are there, 2 button cells.) plus a little bigger backstrap (power wire to laser emitter on right grip.) due to it being target/home defense. carry is a Kahr K9. no laser systems for this one yet.. got the 226 for $700
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 7:20:19 AM EDT
There are some things you should think about in addition to subjectives such as the "feel" of the gun.

The P226 was built specifically for the U.S. military trials and, believe it or not, the U.S. military establishment does know a thing or two about weapons construction. In addition, ALL manufacturers will cheap-out and cut corners if they can. The mil-spec requirements prevent this, but ONLY with specific guns sold to the military. Since it is nor feasible in most cases to make different "runs" of the same model, guns like the Beretta 92FS and Sig P226 will usually be pretty much the same as their military brethren.

With the P220/225 series guns, the ejector is simply an extension of the slide catch...on the 226 it is a separate part which can easily be replaced if necessary. The grip screws go directly into the frame on the 220/225 pistols, in the 226, they screw into bushings which...again...can be replaced if you should strip the threads on one. Double column mags are more reliable than single column, even for the same capacity.

The P228 (M11) is built like the 226 and is my favorite of the Sig 9mm's, especially if 10 rounds is all you can carry anyway. You can also get the "short" trigger for both the 226/228...do not pay a fortune for one of these, they should not run much over $35 or so.

The S.E.A.L. teams still use the 226 and have NO problems with them. They may be a little large for a 9mm (but not as much so as the M9 Beretta) but that is one reason for their reliability...big parts work better than small ones. You will be VERY hard-pressed to do better than the P226 or M92FS Beretta...and they both WORK!
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 7:47:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Citabria7GCBC:
p220 is a .45 , but 9mm sucks anyway. in situations when you may need to kill someone fast. .45 has better stoping power. 9mm just basiclly annoys the person. you have to shoot at least 6 or more shots before the guy stops to think he got hit. on the 9mm. after one .45 the guy is down fast with one maybe 2 shots. My dad is a Houston P.D. and he carries a sig p220 .45 he got into a shoot out with a guy and it took 1 shot to end the situation. his buddy who got into another shoot out months later, used a 9mm. it took 2.5 clips to stop the guy. see the difference. Go with the SIG P220 .45 it is the best. durable too! goes through anything and still shoots!



I'll try to refrain from derogatory comments about the above post. I've owned both, and both are excellent firearms. My P226 has over 42,000rnds through it and still ROCKS. One thing to consider: The newer, milled-slide P226 (if purchased in .40 or357SIG) can be converted with a barrel and spring change into a 9mm. This gives you the benefit of 3 calibers, and high capacity in each. 15rnd factory and OE mags can still be found. I also have small-ish hands, but I've learned to carry and shoot the P226 pretty well.
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 7:49:26 AM EDT
I owned a P226 and the grip was pretty large. I never could get used to the way it felt, so I sold it.

I think I'd opt for the P220 now. It is a bit slimmer and packs a bigger punch.

If you're set on the 9mm, I'd recommend the P225. Its grip feels much more comfortable, you can really get your fingers around it. The P228 is also a good choice if you can find one. For nearly the same mag capacity it feels much more compact than the P226.

The one benefit of the P226 that I can think of is that hi-caps are out there and not too expensive.
Link Posted: 3/4/2002 10:55:29 PM EDT
Once again, thanks for the wealth of information guys. I guess I'll just have to try the various models available to me (and hopefully shoot a few of them) before making the final decision to purchase. From the sounds of it, the P226 is quite popular among those who responded. I've seen some 226's advertised up here as the "P226 Classic". Is this different from a standard P226? If such a thing exists, what is/are the difference(s)?

Link Posted: 3/5/2002 4:17:14 AM EDT
The classic is probably refering to the older type slide. The original P226 slide was stamped and welded, the same as all the non-US made Sigs, like the P220. The newer slide is a milled slide, made of stainless steel. It's similar in construction to the slide on the P229. The major advantage is that the stainless slide is made in the USA, so it drives the cost WAY down in terms of production and importation. They pay Germans more to make slides, and then you have to pay to get them here. Made in the USA in this case, equals cheaper for Sig to manufacture.

I would hazard to guess this was also a large factor in the dropping of the P228 from the civillian line. The P229 in 9mm is almost the same gun, and Sig makes more money off of it. It doesn't make sense to compete with yourself, so if they just provide the P228 to LEO only, they can make more money on the P229. Sig says it's just because demand is so high, but they've been saying that for a few years. I think it's bottom line.

Anyway, the P226 in .40 has the milled stainless slide, so the P226 "Classic" is probably the old one that we are actually more familiar with.

Ross
Link Posted: 3/5/2002 8:10:07 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2002 3:00:46 PM EDT
Thanks for all of the replies guys! I'll keep you posted...

hsld.
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