Hey guys...........I am pondering an MSAR STG rifle and want one in a bad way...........trouble is, I need to either trade an AR or sell one to do it. I have 2 AR rifles........one is a LCW lower with Stag upper, and is a mutt, the other a Colt 6520.........which will stay with me. Should I trade the other AR for one?

i handled a msar for the first time this past weekend.. and yes i would trade one in your situation. i now want one in a bad way

I would like to have one someday but would not trade a good AR for one.

+1

I had to have one when they first came out....paid top dollar right away.

It is a great gun, but it always sat inthe gun safe and my ARs went to the range. I ended up selling it to a good friend at a large loss.........now I am building another AR with the money. I haven't regretted it yet.

My point.......+1 to not trading a good AR for one.

Put a ACOG on one then try to shoot it from either side like around corners.......you will keep the AR when the swelling from the spent case in your mouth heals.

Depends if you like bullpups.

If you want one, try shooting a friends before you commit.

Max

Ditch the mutt AR.

I just picked up an MSAR E4 (uses AR mags).  I traded a Springfield TRP Operator 1911 for it.  If I had to I would have traded one of my AR's for it.  It balances better than any of my AR's and I have them in 7.5", 10.5", 11", & 16".  Plenty of rail space on some models for anything (lights, lasers, etc.) you might want to mount.  When you learn how mag changes can be just as fast as with an AR.  

Don't let anyone tell you that you cannot shoot weak side.  Manticore makes a little plastic piece called the Brass Buster.  It is a snap-on brass deflecter that can be use both right and left handed.  It allows you to shoot from the weak side and around corners just like you can with an AR.  No brass in the teeth.  I am a lefty (have a left hand bolt on my MSAR) and have a greater potential of getting hit in the face with brass shooting my right hand AR then I do with my E4 using the Brass Buster.

I say GO FOR IT.  But that is JMHO,
MadDog

Had one for a few months, Lot of Fail to to Feed problems, accuracy left something to be desired past 150 yards as well. Couldn't see it having any practical purpose past looking really cool. I would stick with the extra AR if I were you (as long as its a good shooter, but that goes without saying)

As MadDogDan said put a Brass Buster on it and no more problems with that.

I am a big propenent of the MSAR/AUG rifles.  There are a lot of urban legends about why they aren't as good as conventional layout rifles, but most of those really are just urban legend.  A good example is the 'slower to reload' claim- well, instead of grabbing in front of your primary hand you are grabbing behind.  You press a button and pull out the mag and insert a new mag- not any slower as long as you have practiced it a bit and know the manual of arms.

In a state like Illinois where SBR's aren't allowed it really shines- I can have a 27" rifle with a 16" barrel without any special paperwork.  Need a more compact package for transport?  I don't even have to mess with push pins, just remove the quick detach barrel and suddenly it is less than 21" overall.  

Bullpups are a growing market, and the aftermarket is finally starting to catch up. For whatever reason there seems to be a bit of prejudice against bullpups, I suspect mostly because they are just plain different from what most people learn to shoot on.  But that really kind of captures it- they are not better or worse, just different.  

I recently had a Tennessee SWAT officer call and order one of the Brass Buster brass deflector from me, and asked him what he was going to use it for.  He told me "well, most my Dept. likes to carry short barrelled AR's.  I like the MSAR because we do a lot of house clearing, and I don't have some of the issues that you run into with a short barrled AR- worse ballistics and sometimes cycling issues.  A couple of times I have needed a hand free to grab ahold of someone or push them down, and the point of balance on the gun is right at the grip, so I can keep a good hold and control on it.  Besides, if I ever got in a situation where I needed to take a shot one handed, it is a lot easier to control than an AR-15."  He was buying the brass deflector to solve the one problem with the rifle he had found, which was brass in the face when week hand shooting.

In any case, if you already have 3 AR's, why not sell the mutt and pick up an MSAR or AUG and try it out.  It isn't for everyone, but I think it is always good to try something new.

Sven

Could be a interesting product, however how does it affect your weak side cheek weld and ability to get into "scope range" like with the ACOG.  With the one I had that was the issue.......weak side required me to hold it back so as to get the brass to clear my face and that messed up my view in the optic.....not a problem when using the AR platform.  Does this brass bump thing fix that?

AR's are a dime a dozen. StG77 clones are cool as crap.

Best thing is a 27" rifle with a 16" barrel shooting 5.56x45mm or .223 Rem with no B.S. ATF paper work. Keep the man out of your life as much as possible I always say.

Scottrh2:  Yes, the Brass Buster does fix the problem.  I can double tap and do hammers MUCH faster with the E4 because there is almost NO muzzle climb (or at least MUCH less then any of my AR's including my shortest SBR).

MadDog

Not sure what you're looking for here; justification for trading an AR for an MSAR? I wouldnt, but I'm not all that impressed with MSARs anyway and wouldnt pay their price for one.

Just looking for opinions from those who have handled both.............whether it's an idea with merit or not

Get 'em both! This advice, you must follow!

handled an MSAR for the first time today and I can truely say I was amazed.
The most notable thing was how it pointed and how quick it was to shoulder. I removed my cheek weld and peered down the gun. it seemed like the muzzle was "BAM" right there so close to my face.
I want one for sure

Why aren't you impressed with them?

Well, I plan on keeping the Colt, so if I trade the other, I will have both...........so to speak

I probably would...

Oh wait, what am I saying?  I already did.  I traded my last right-handed AR for my second MSAR last week.  I now own 2 MSAR E4s and I'm down to my last 3 ARs, all Stag leftys.

I would get the E4 if you want to customize it. I have the STG556 and my biggest gripe is the rail hieght. It is too tall for AR optics and too short for AR BUIS's. I am satisfied now with the Trijicon RMR and YHM 1/2" riser since I can't run buis.
I am going to keep it stock so I am not too worried about the non AR15 barrel thread pattern.
The other thing is I like to shoot all my rifles with a target sling. It is not possible standing but I did improvise something sitting and prone with my VTAC 2 point sling.

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You might want to see which ammo produces less flash with the muzzle so close to your face. I was shooting XM193 "tactical" (black box) and the flash was huge @ an indoor range. Outdoors it wasn't much of a problem. IIRC Brown Bear and Ultramax .223 didn't flash so much. But that might be 5.56 vs .223 in general.


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Maybe an AXR or Aug A3
but an AR is a better weapon

Well, you need at least one AR and one MSAR STG!   Thats' what I did anyway as cost of new STG 556 comparing to new AR was not that much difference to me.

Thanks for the replies.........as it stands, I may very well do it...........probably the E4, as I have alot of M-16 mags and that is a big selling point to me.........any other issues I should be aware of? I am keeping the Colt 6520 though......I love it too much to ever part with it, even if it's not an M-4 carbine

I used to be an AR guy until I held an MSAR.  I sold all 3 AR's because they feel terrible now and are way too long.   Really, after shooting the E4 an AR feels like it has a brick on the end of the barrel.  

My E4 has been flawless through almost 7k rounds now.  No AR cleans up as easy,  no need for a special chamber cleaning brush anymore either.  

The gun is so small with the barrel off I carry it in a Camelback and a regular old Jansport bookbag.  Try that with a non sbr AR! Also the barrel pops back on with just a slight twist in about 2 seconds if you go slow.

I love my E4. It's my favorite rifle, although I will be putting together a few ARs simply because they are the most popular rifle in the country and finding parts for it is way easier than the exotics.

Get rid of the mutt.

Do it, I love mine

Right now you can pick up an E4 through Ratworx brand new fresh from the factory and get a $200 rebate through MSAR. So it's like a no brainer if you've been waiting to get one.

AR15 any day over an STG
had one sold it and kept the AXR and all 5 ARs