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11/20/2019 5:07:11 PM
Posted: 11/1/2009 3:42:12 PM EST
One of my co-workers asked me to go with him to look at shotguns on Friday. He was looking for one for home defense. After discussing the pros and cons of several models with the guy behind the counter and me, he settled on a Remington 870 in 12 gauge with an 18" barrel. Took it out to shoot it today in his backyard just to get a feel for it. His dad shot it once and it functioned fine. My friend picks up the gun, racks it and shoots except it didn't work as intended. The barrel flew off the gun and stuck in the ground, the magazine spring shot out. He called me pretty shaken up and told me what happened and asked me to come look at the gun. I went over and looked it over. Nothing was cracked or missing from the gun. I told him I'd take it back to the gun store he bought it at to have them look at it and make sure everything was ok.

To me it sounds like the barrel wasn't tightened onto the reciever and on the second shot out of the gun it blew it off. He told me that before they shot it his dad and he both tightened it on there. His dad knows some stuff about guns, mainly handguns, and my friend has never shot anything bigger than a .22lr until today and had this bad experience. Now he doesn't trust the gun.

I can't say I blame him as that would be a pretty tramatic experience for a first shot out of a shotgun. Fortunately he is ok and suffered no injuries. Any other possible thoughts as to what might have caused this to happen? The only logical explanation to me is that the barrel wasn't tightened on. All the pieces were fine and there was nothing broken or out of place. Just thought I would post this to get some feedback. I'm going to bring the gun down to the store tomorrow and have them check it out and put some rounds through it to make sure everything is ok. Then I'm gonna take him shooting so he can build some confidence in it and himself.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:02:52 PM EST
Has the shotgun been fired since the incident? Does the barrel have the detent ring or is the barrel retainer on the mag tube cap? Were they firing appropriate ammo for the chamber length?

I have to say, that sure sounds odd...
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:04:38 PM EST
If the barrel isn't seated properly and the cap on the end of the magazine tube isn't screwed down tight, I guess that could happen.

Next time be there with them, people who cannot assemble an 870 need supervision. No offense to your friend...
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:19:45 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/1/2009 4:20:30 PM EST by SuperMoose]
Originally Posted By 87GN:
If the barrel isn't seated properly and the cap on the end of the magazine tube isn't screwed down tight, I guess that could happen.

Next time be there with them, people who cannot assemble an 870 need supervision. No offense to your friend...


No offense taken to him. The gun as far as I am aware was not disassembled prior. They were using 12 gauge 2 3/4 00 buck shot. So the ammo was appropriate. The gun has not been fired since the incident. This happened earlier today and I came over and took the gun home with me. My yard is too small to shoot it off without having a visit from the police. I'll take some pictures and post them up.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:22:58 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:28:10 PM EST
Originally Posted By shotar:
You know, even if the mag cap was not screwed down tight, that is sever threads that would have to work loose for the barrel to come off. Both the old and new style mag caps work fine, this sounds like user error.


Well what if it wasn't tight...theoretically it would be possible for it to shoot the barrel off then correct?

Pictures for you provided below. I reassembled the gun and it seems fine to me. I've never had an issue with my 870 before.







Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:35:48 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:41:01 PM EST
Originally Posted By shotar:
Only thing I can figure is that they slid everything on and didn't screw down the ring. Perhaps only one turn, then fired. They probably hit the resistance of the detent, then thought the were done.


Yea, like I said I'm guessing that it wasn't tightened down enough. That is the only logical explanation I can come up with. I'll take it down and put some shells through it and make sure it functions ok.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:57:07 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 4:58:35 PM EST

Originally Posted By SuperMoose:
Originally Posted By 87GN:
If the barrel isn't seated properly and the cap on the end of the magazine tube isn't screwed down tight, I guess that could happen.

Next time be there with them, people who cannot assemble an 870 need supervision. No offense to your friend...


No offense taken to him. The gun as far as I am aware was not disassembled prior. They were using 12 gauge 2 3/4 00 buck shot. So the ammo was appropriate. The gun has not been fired since the incident. This happened earlier today and I came over and took the gun home with me. My yard is too small to shoot it off without having a visit from the police. I'll take some pictures and post them up.

Most of the ones I've seen were disassembled in the box, and had to be assembled once removed. This may be different with the ones that have the 7 or 8 shot tube. I can't remember.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 5:01:06 PM EST
I saw this one get opened. It was fully assembled in the box. Magazine held 5 shells IIRC. I wouldn't imagine that remington would ship a gun with a new barrel designed for a different magazine cap but I suppose anything is possible...
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 5:12:49 PM EST
Hopefully the shotgun is fine and it was a user error. I screw my extension down and then give it just a little love with some channel locks. I just give it a little bit of a turn to ensure the thing is screwed on there.

Please make sure he shoots it again and gets over the fear of the weapon.
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:40:12 PM EST
That's a remington factory extension. In other words, that mag extension is a two piece extension....
It's possible that the tube was screwed too far down into the nut and there were not enough threads
left to secure the barrel. If you tighten the nut down and the barrel is loose, or if you don't engage the
ball detent, then that's what happened.

I'd recommend backing the tube out until it only has a couple of threads holding it, then tightening the
nut as much as possible, THEN tightening the tube.

Glad your friend is okay.

Sam
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 7:42:42 PM EST
Originally Posted By shotar:
Is it possible that this is a new style barrel, with a mag extension designed for the old style ball detent?


I sure hope not... That's a factory installed mag extension, which means that the mag tube could not ( should not )
have had dimples... I would *HOPE* that the barrel has a ball detent... Otherwise, there is only the mag tube clamp
preventing the mag extension from unscrewing.

Sam
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 8:24:55 PM EST
Might it be possible too that the pump was locked forward when they tried seating the barrel and tightened it down with the mag extension? Sounds like it was a group of little things that snowballed from there... Sorry to hear about this and glad your friend is GTG!
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 10:59:29 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/1/2009 11:20:10 PM EST
Like I said I'm gonna take it to get looked at to ensure its ok, put rounds through it myself, and then take him to shoot it. I understand that's a pretty traumatic thing to happen on your first time, but I'm not gonna let that get in the way of him shooting it. I'll get him back up on the horse.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 1:49:15 AM EST
On a related and humorous note this reminds me of a friend shooting IPSC in the revolver class. He steps the line, pulls his Smith 686 to load, swings the cylinder open and watches the cylinder/yoke fall to the ground...there's just one screw holding that all together and it had worked loose.

He took it all in good spirits as every one started calling him “Barney Fife” or “Asa” (the bank guard).

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 3:25:58 AM EST

Originally Posted By GunCat:
On a related and humorous note this reminds me of a friend shooting IPSC in the revolver class. He steps the line, pulls his Smith 686 to load, swings the cylinder open and watches the cylinder/yoke fall to the ground...there's just one screw holding that all together and it had worked loose.

He took it all in good spirits as every one started calling him “Barney Fife” or “Asa” (the bank guard).


I just rememberd the episode where Andy gives Barny just one round and tells him to keep it in his pocket. Barny puts it in his gun because he is afraid that he might loose the round. Somewhere in the show, Barny almost shoots his foot off and of course Andy isn't too pleased
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 3:31:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By sambeaux:
That's a remington factory extension. I

I'd recommend backing the tube out until it only has a couple of threads holding it, then tightening the
nut as much as possible, THEN tightening the tube.

Sam


I always take the extension completely out, tighten the nut, then install the extension. Never had one come loose.

Rob


Link Posted: 11/2/2009 3:33:42 AM EST
Originally Posted By sambeaux:
Otherwise, there is only the mag tube clamp preventing the mag extension from unscrewing.
Sam


The clamp is all that keeps the mag tube from unscrewing in either case. That's actually it's primary purpose, support for the tube is secondary.

Rob

Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:41:10 AM EST
Comparing the pictures you posted to my 870, it looks like the extension is not screwed in all the way. In the close up picture you can see a few threads sticking out from the nut. On mine I can not see any threads. Take the clamp off and make sure that the extension is tight.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:45:17 AM EST
There should be no threads showing on the mag extension. Mine did not look that way.
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:19:06 AM EST
It is not assembled correctly as there should be no threads showing. The tube extension has to be installed apart, the mag tube coupling goes on first then the tube. This ensures the correct amount of threads is dedicated to each part........Remember this, the extension comes off together and installs apart. You can call if you need talked through the install. The weapon may still not be safe to fire unless you reinstall the tube extension correctly
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:43:24 AM EST
The cap itself wasn't tightening onto the reciever. There is a new cap on the way. If it was screwed on upside down you could feel it biting and locking down, but the proper way was not holding it on at all...
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:35:00 AM EST
Pics of the mag tube threads with barrel and extension taken off?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 1:31:27 PM EST
Originally Posted By SuperMoose:
The cap itself wasn't tightening onto the reciever


You mean the mag tube? Or are they trying to torque down the soldered-in tube to the receiver??
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 1:56:48 PM EST
that is called the mag tube coupling and unless you damaged it, it was not the problem, the installation of the tube extension kit is the problem. If you have also damaged the mag tube or tube extension threads then you are still fubar.........NOW, there is another issue that Remington is not addressing properly and that is the factory install of the mag tube. It should be 11.5 inches long and of late they have been coming to me 11 3/8th and I have had two that were well over 11 1/2" and I had to grind them down just to get the mag tube cap on the one and the tube coupling on another build. If that is the issue with this 870 all the new mag tube couplings in the world are not going to matter because you will not get the mag tube coupling to seat on the barrel ring and secure the barrel. If this is the issue it needs to go back for repair or replacement of the mag tube.......... this issue is also making it impossible to put after market forwar slings plates on an 870 such as the Wilson Combat plate or any others for that matter as there are not enough threads for the plate and the mag tube coupling. Did you take the tube extension kit off and reinstall it as I recommended?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 4:07:11 PM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 4:08:06 PM EST by SuperMoose]
Originally Posted By aippi:
that is called the mag tube coupling and unless you damaged it, it was not the problem, the installation of the tube extension kit is the problem. If you have also damaged the mag tube or tube extension threads then you are still fubar.........NOW, there is another issue that Remington is not addressing properly and that is the factory install of the mag tube. It should be 11.5 inches long and of late they have been coming to me 11 3/8th and I have had two that were well over 11 1/2" and I had to grind them down just to get the mag tube cap on the one and the tube coupling on another build. If that is the issue with this 870 all the new mag tube couplings in the world are not going to matter because you will not get the mag tube coupling to seat on the barrel ring and secure the barrel. If this is the issue it needs to go back for repair or replacement of the mag tube.......... this issue is also making it impossible to put after market forwar slings plates on an 870 such as the Wilson Combat plate or any others for that matter as there are not enough threads for the plate and the mag tube coupling. Did you take the tube extension kit off and reinstall it as I recommended?


I am waiting for a new magazine coupling to tighten it down. I don't have one laying around here to try. When that part comes in I'll take a look at it and let you know. Thanks for that tid bit.
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