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Posted: 1/24/2009 11:08:50 PM EST
I want to get  some NFA items.  Starting w/ some cans.  Need to know if I should bother setting up a trust.

I understand that w/ the trust you don't need the CLEO sig, or the pints or mug shot & that you cant sign other people up on the trust so they can be in control of the items & that it makes it easier if you die for your heirs to get it.

Are there any disadvantages to it.  After you go to the trouble of setting trust up is it a PIA for some reason?

Are there any advantages to doing it as an individual?

If you have NFA as an individual & you die what happens to your stuff?

I understand that you get a Revokable trust where you are the Settler/Granter & also a "life trustee".  Then anyone else you want to be able to be in possession of the items would be a Trustee.   A "successor trustee" would become trustee at the time of your death or incapacitation.  But what is the diff b/c the trustee & the beneficiary?

Can you set up this type of trust at those websites for doing wills & setting up LLCs etc?

Can a non-citizen but permanant resident be a trustee in a NFA trust?

Can you also make non NFA items or other sorts of stuff the property of the NFA trust?

What is cost of having a competent lawyer set it up?

Any other comments?
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 12:38:59 AM EST
What is the diff, practically, b/t setting up a trust & corp for this?
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 3:51:20 AM EST


Individual

- Need passport photos, CLEO signatures and fingerprint cards

- The item belongs to you

- Can get a C&R FFL

- Interstate moves are simple



Trust

- Don't need passport photos, CLEO signatures and fingerprint cards

- The item belongs to a legal entity

- Can't get a C&R FFL

- Interstate moves?

- Paperwork and possible attorney fees to create

- May need to be amended from time to time



LLC / Corporation

- Don't need passport photos, CLEO signatures and fingerprint cards

- The item belongs to a legal entity

- Can get a C&R FFL

- Interstate moves are a hassle

- Paperwork and fee to create

- Annual paperwork and fee to maintain





Link Posted: 1/25/2009 4:36:22 AM EST
who are the annual fees & paperowrk to to maintain the LLC w/ the guns?
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 5:12:15 AM EST
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 6:09:08 AM EST
I have an LLC in Utah and there is NO yearly paperwork to file.  You do have to keep it current but all you need to do is pay $12 over the internet at the state's corp. web site.  The initial fee to set up the LLC was $52 charged by the state using forms I printed off the state's web site.  You can use an outside service if you like but they will charge you an arm and a leg and you still have to fill out the same forms.  Basically the service will file your forms which you can do electronically.

I am sure it is different for every state.

MadDog
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 10:03:59 AM EST
I'm on my third SBR as an individual.  I have to tell you that it's not been bad at all.  Our CLEO takes 2-4 weeks to return the ATF Forms, and the photos and stuff really weren't too much of a hassle.  I can't say for the Trust or LLC/Corp. as I haven't done those.  But I can say that I'd recommend individual as it really was pretty easy.  Anyway, good luck and enjoy your NFA toy.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 10:26:05 AM EST


I have an LLC in Utah and there is NO yearly paperwork to file. You do have to keep it current but all you need to do is pay $12 over the internet at the state's corp. web site.
I would argue that having to file an Annual Renewal with the Utah Division of Corporations, even via the web, counts as yearly paperwork...
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 10:51:41 AM EST
Quoted:
Individual
- Need passport photos, CLEO signatures and fingerprint cards
- The item belongs to you
- Can get a C&R FFL
- Interstate moves are simple

Trust
- Don't need passport photos, CLEO signatures and fingerprint cards
- The item belongs to a legal entity
- Can't get a C&R FFL
- Interstate moves?
- Paperwork and possible attorney fees to create
- May need to be amended from time to time

LLC / Corporation
- Don't need passport photos, CLEO signatures and fingerprint cards
- The item belongs to a legal entity
- Can get a C&R FFL
- Interstate moves are a hassle
- Paperwork and fee to create
- Annual paperwork and fee to maintain






You lost me on this part. You mean if I have a trust I am unable to get a C&R FFL?
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 11:27:34 AM EST


You mean if I have a trust I am unable to get a C&R FFL?
An individual, LLC or corporation can get a C&R, but a trust can't, because of the way "person" is defined in the Gun Control Act:





(a) As used in this chapter—



(1) The term “person” and the term “whoever” include any individual, corporation, company, association, firm, partnership, society, or joint stock company.

...



18 USC 921

As you can see, there is no mention of trusts...
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 11:56:54 AM EST
Quoted:
Quoted:
Individual
- Need passport photos, CLEO signatures and fingerprint cards
- The item belongs to you
- Can get a C&R FFL
- Interstate moves are simple

Trust
- Don't need passport photos, CLEO signatures and fingerprint cards
- The item belongs to a legal entity
- Can't get a C&R FFL
- Interstate moves?
- Paperwork and possible attorney fees to create
- May need to be amended from time to time

LLC / Corporation
- Don't need passport photos, CLEO signatures and fingerprint cards
- The item belongs to a legal entity
- Can get a C&R FFL
- Interstate moves are a hassle
- Paperwork and fee to create
- Annual paperwork and fee to maintain






You lost me on this part. You mean if I have a trust I am unable to get a C&R FFL?


You're trust can't get a C&R FFL. Only natural persons, corps and LLC's can.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 12:09:49 PM EST
Sounds like a LLC is the way to go.  Been thinking about starting a business anyway.  Hmm.
Link Posted: 1/25/2009 3:07:48 PM EST
Quoted:
You mean if I have a trust I am unable to get a C&R FFL?
An individual, LLC or corporation can get a C&R, but a trust can't, because of the way "person" is defined in the Gun Control Act:

(a) As used in this chapter—

(1) The term “person” and the term “whoever” include any individual, corporation, company, association, firm, partnership, society, or joint stock company.
...

18 USC 921
As you can see, there is no mention of trusts...


I've always thought the GCA's failure to include trusts under the definition of "person" was interesting. It seems to suggest that trusts aren't subject to its restrictions. Even more interesting is when you carry that logic over to FOPA, specifically 922o...

Link Posted: 1/25/2009 3:49:47 PM EST
Quoted:
Quoted:
You mean if I have a trust I am unable to get a C&R FFL?
An individual, LLC or corporation can get a C&R, but a trust can't, because of the way "person" is defined in the Gun Control Act:

(a) As used in this chapter—

(1) The term “person” and the term “whoever” include any individual, corporation, company, association, firm, partnership, society, or joint stock company.
...

18 USC 921
As you can see, there is no mention of trusts...


I've always thought the GCA's failure to include trusts under the definition of "person" was interesting. It seems to suggest that trusts aren't subject to its restrictions. Even more interesting is when you carry that logic over to FOPA, specifically 922o...



Heh, I can just imagine the reaction of the examiner that gets a form 1 come in to make a machinegun under a Trust along with an explanation of why you think they should approve it.

Actually it shouldn't get that far but it'd be funny.
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