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Posted: 4/23/2011 7:18:36 PM EDT
I'm buying a rifle off of the EE and have ran into something I haven't experienced before. I've bought and sold a good many guns online but I have never had an individual insist that I send a copy of the receiving FFL to them. He says that it's a ATF regulation that he have a copy before shipping the gun. I worked for a FFL for 10 years and I know a licensee has to send a copy to the shipping licensee but not an individual.

I told him I'd IM him the numbers and he could run an EZ check but he said he was told by the ATF that he had to have a copy before shipping.

Who's wrong?
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 7:54:09 PM EDT
In Maryland we have to have all firearms sent and recieved from a licensed FFL  on both ends of the transaction and the only way to prove they checked before hand is to request a copy. Generally copies made into a PDF file that can be easily emailed is enough. This ensures that the firearm is being transferred properly and that the firearm is not just being mailed to someone who copied the ffl number. In maryland you can only ship to the address on the FFL registration.

To cover your ass you should always get both FFL's and only ship to the address provided on the registration. You can't help if someone else doesn't do things right but it can keep you out of hot water.
Link Posted: 4/23/2011 8:01:45 PM EDT
There is no such ATF regulation. Ask him to provide with the regulation #, it won't happen because it doesn't exist.
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 2:05:05 PM EDT
Most FFL's (including us) do not typically send copies of their license to non-licensees.  Non-licensees can use the FFL EzCheck.
Link Posted: 4/24/2011 8:11:42 PM EDT
No such "regulation" and a common mistake due to gunbroker's well-intentioned, but inaccurate instructions to sellers.

Whether he'll ship without it, or your FFL will agree to provide him with a copy is something you'll have to work out between you, him and your FFL.
Link Posted: 4/25/2011 8:31:37 AM EDT





Quoted:






I told him I'd IM him the numbers and he could run an EZ check but he said he was told by the ATF that he had to have a copy before shipping.





Who's wrong?



ATF may have told him that, but there is no such regulation. EZ-Check is the way to go.



They should scrub the mail FFL thing and even let FFLs do verification with EZ-Check.





 
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 10:06:54 AM EDT
No such regulation, but why not just send it to him?   Make damn sure you make him send an actual COLOR photocopy of his state-issued ID with the gun; push him through a hoop on his end too.   Also make sure and print "NOT FOR FACE TO FACE TRANSFERS" on the face of the FFL you send him.   I print it right over the micro-printing below the address information so that it's not easy to alter.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 10:21:32 AM EDT
27 CFR 478.94 is commonly interpreted as a "cerified copy" of an FFL is needed to ship a gun to an FFL . This is true only for FFL to FFL sales , but many people had not realized this.

"Certified copy" meant "signed in ink" for a while , I can't find an ATF ruling on this , but in 2005 the BATFE did state a faxed FFL is adequate .
http://www.atf.gov/publications/newsletters/ffl/ffl-newsletter-2005-08.pdf
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 10:32:11 AM EDT
Quoted:
I'm buying a rifle off of the EE and have ran into something I haven't experienced before. I've bought and sold a good many guns online but I have never had an individual insist that I send a copy of the receiving FFL to them. He says that it's a ATF regulation that he have a copy before shipping the gun. I worked for a FFL for 10 years and I know a licensee has to send a copy to the shipping licensee but not an individual.

I told him I'd IM him the numbers and he could run an EZ check but he said he was told by the ATF that he had to have a copy before shipping.

Who's wrong?


You should expect to have to a send a copy of FFL for anyone to ship b/c its the traditional way it works.  You are right that they only need the numbers so they can do a check and get an address, recieving a physical copy is just how most people do it, try buying anything from most online gun vendors and you get the same thing, some don't even take faxes .  Also the shipper he uses UPS/USPS/Fedex requires one of the individuals to be a FFL (not always enforced) and require to see a hard copy of the FFL (again, its not always enforced in practice).
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 2:41:29 PM EDT
Quoted:
.  Also the shipper he uses UPS/USPS/Fedex requires one of the individuals to be a FFL (not always enforced) and require to see a hard copy of the FFL (again, its not always enforced in practice).


Everything in your post makes sense except for this last part.   ONLY the USPS has a form where you "certify" that you're an FFL sending to another FFL.   I've shipped hundreds of firearms (at least) and have never had UPS or FEDEX ask anything about my shipments, nor have they ever asked to see an FFL.   (Literally, never.)
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:07:41 PM EDT
I got used to them not asking for copies of FFLs at UPS so I quit taking them...  About 3 trips later new guy behind the counter ask for it and would not ship the firearm without it.  So it was a wasted trip, now I take the receiving FFL with me every time.  Do they ask for it?  No Not every time but I have it with me.
Link Posted: 4/29/2011 6:43:10 PM EDT
I've always gotten one and I've always asked for one. It's just a CYA thing.
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