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Posted: 10/21/2010 3:26:21 AM EDT
I am starting to load .223 and want to upgrade to a progressive press.  I don't mind doing load Development on a single stage but to loads hundreds of rounds on a single stage it is a no go.  

I have been looking at the Dillon presses but have no clue which would be better for me.  I am leaning towards the 550B but if the extra $ is worth the 650 then I will go that way.

Here is the plan.  I will de-prime, tumble, then size on my single stage.  Prime by hand while watching TV.  Then run them through the Dillon press.

Besides the press what other accessories are good to get with the initial purchase so I don't have to pay shipping later on them?

Thanks

MAHA
Link Posted: 10/21/2010 3:43:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/21/2010 4:00:05 AM EDT



Originally Posted By Mahamotorworks:




Here is the plan.  I will de-prime, tumble, then size on my single stage.  Prime by hand while watching TV.  Then run them through the Dillon press.





That's a lot of extra work which doesnt gain you anything.



I suggest just tumble, resize (which deprimes), then tumble the again to remove the sizing lube.



Now you're ready to trim.



Prime on the 550B, nothing to be gained by hand priming



 
Link Posted: 10/21/2010 4:14:09 AM EDT
650 can use a riffle case feeder, 550 can not /thread
Link Posted: 10/21/2010 5:36:55 AM EDT
This will tell you about each one.
Which Dillon is Right for You





 
 
 
Link Posted: 10/21/2010 6:13:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2010 6:19:38 AM EDT by jlficken]
Originally Posted By Mahamotorworks:
I am starting to load .223 and want to upgrade to a progressive press.  I don't mind doing load Development on a single stage but to loads hundreds of rounds on a single stage it is a no go.  

I have been looking at the Dillon presses but have no clue which would be better for me.  I am leaning towards the 550B but if the extra $ is worth the 650 then I will go that way.

Here is the plan.  I will de-prime, tumble, then size on my single stage.  Prime by hand while watching TV.  Then run them through the Dillon press.

Besides the press what other accessories are good to get with the initial purchase so I don't have to pay shipping later on them?

Thanks

MAHA


I do everything like you except the priming and that I tumble again after sizing.  I use the press for that and it works very well.

I went 550B because of the following:

1) Cheaper
2) More versatile
3) Cheaper caliber conversions
4) More calibers available
5) I can load 300-400rds of 223/hour
6) I don't load 25k rounds a year
7) Case feeder for handgun is now available
8) I saw a modified feeder for 223 but I can't find it now.....anyone?????

If I could do it again I would look more into the 650 but I don't know.  The case feeder and bullet feeder are nice options but the caliber changes are more complicated and expensive.  It is faster but not enough to justify the cost to me.  I don't mind the manual index nor the lack of a powder cop die.

I would still go 550B today.

Get tool heads, die rings, more primer tubes, a couple spare parts kits (never needed one yet), the aluminum roller handle, strong mount (if you want it), Lee FCD dies for all calibers to go in the last station (my preference), spare powder measure(one for large powder bar one for small).
Link Posted: 10/21/2010 6:17:43 AM EDT



Originally Posted By COSteve:


This will tell you about each one.



Which Dillon is Right for You

     


Which Dillon is Right for You?



All of them



 
Link Posted: 10/21/2010 8:21:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chas8008:
650 can use a riffle case feeder, 550 can not /thread


This.

The only reason for a person planning on reloading rifle rounds to buy a 550 instead of a 650 is money.  And the difference in light of a tool that you can/will use for decades is nil.

Save a bit extra for the 650, and if there is no  way for you to ever afford a 650 over a 550,  it is time to think about a cheaper hobby or a rimfire upper.





Link Posted: 10/21/2010 10:28:55 AM EDT
Go with the 650. Once you start loading 223 in bulk you will want a casefeeder that can handle rifle cartridges. The 550 casefeeder will not work for rifle cartridges.

jonblack
Link Posted: 10/21/2010 11:09:14 AM EDT
I'd rather be shooting than reloading. Therefore I say go with the 650. I have a 650 and a 1050. I prep on the 650 and load on the 1050. I use a T7 for precision. Last night I decapped, sized and trimmed 2k 223 cases in 1.5 hours from 10-11:30 pm.
Link Posted: 10/21/2010 1:29:46 PM EDT
if you want to do it how you described then get the new bl 550 it is perfect for you. everyone has made good points, however you can upgrade the BL if you so desire. you can also sell your 550 and buy a 650 for very little loss I know I just sold mine.
As for the case feeder I don't see why you couldn't use a 380 feed parts and build you own shell plate for the feeder I just built my case feeder for my 650
case feeder
part 2
With the 550 you should have to order the 550 case feeder with the 380 feed parts and the modify it to fit a small riffle plate that you will make. I have not done this but I don't see how it would not work.
There is nothing wrong with the way you are planing on doing it. The BL 500 is made for you. I love to reload and I wouldn't and don't mind priming while I watch tv. I get to "spend time "with my girl that way. At least I am not sitting at my bench. I also don't feel so bad watching tv for an hour. That said wife's and girlfriends are a very expensive alternative to an automatic primer tube filler. But worth it,  they work like dillons pull some pins and buy them new accessories and they can perform other tasks as well.
Link Posted: 10/21/2010 1:57:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ILove2Shoot:
my method that I am moving to......

Polish/clean
Resize, deprime on my Rock Chucker (with the Hornady L-N-L conversion installed)
Polish to remove lube,
Trim
Run through dillon with a universal decapper in station one to make sure flash hole is clear....and prime with Dillon.....

I do not see where you are going to save much more time priming as a separate step.

I have used a 550B for years and loved it. just recently picked up a 650, but have yet to have the chance to do anything with it, will be getting my conversions this weekend. I like the idea of the Auto indexing. I feel it will increase my rounds per hour rate....Main reason I have no upgraded......found a smoking deal on the 650 in craigslist.....otherwise I would not have bought the 650 at this time and sold the 550.

are you just going to load 223 on it? there is more to it then just the price of the machine. conversions for other calibers cost more for the 650 then the 550. you can only do pistol caliber with a case feeder on a 550, to do rifle calibers in a case feeder you have to have the 650.


For what its worth I do the following....

Polish
Resize/Deprime
Trim/Chamfer
Polish to remove lube/brass bits
Off to the Hornady LNL AP

I'm paranoid that the small bits of brass from trimming might end up in the case or neck. Yeah, maybe a bit of Chicken Little I admit.......
Link Posted: 10/21/2010 4:20:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By COSteve:
This will tell you about each one.

Which Dillon is Right for You
     

Which Dillon is Right for You?

All of them
 


Ding! Ding! Ding!    

Correct answer!!!!!  
Link Posted: 10/21/2010 9:15:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2010 9:15:41 PM EDT by panther308]
The purpose of the progressive is to save some time so priming separately seems to be defeating the purpose of a 550/650
My steps for rifle are:
1. Tumble clean
2. Size/deprime/trim (separate tool head)
3. Tumble off lube
4.Flash hole uniforming
5. Load um up, my Station 1 has a universal decapper in it for cleaning out media in flash hole (Separate tool head)

For match stuff I treat my 550 like a S/S
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 5:43:17 AM EDT
So looking at Presses is the only advantage to the 650 an Auto Index and the fact that I can use a case feeder?

Thanks

MAHA
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 5:51:46 AM EDT
You mean compared to the 550?  Yes, and the 650 also has 5 stations instead of 4 on the 550.
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 7:27:06 AM EDT
As a former 550B owner and now a 650 w/casefeeder owner, if you process a lot of rifle brass, the casefeeder is a God send!  I loved my 550B but got tired of all the brass handling.
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 9:29:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mahamotorworks:
So looking at Presses is the only advantage to the 650 an Auto Index and the fact that I can use a case feeder?

Thanks

MAHA



650 (with casefeeder): place  bullet, pull handle = loaded round

550 (without casefeeder available for .223): place bullet, place brass, pull handle, advance shell plate = loaded round

Doesn't seem like much till you multiply by 10,000. or 20,000






Link Posted: 10/22/2010 1:20:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2010 1:22:23 PM EDT by echap]
Hello, I'll probably get flamed for this but here it goes.  

Go red! I would recommend that you don't drink the Blue Kool Aid and give a serious look at the Hornady Lock n Load AP.  I am really happy with mine and by all accounts the caliber changes are easier and the powder measure is more accurate.  You can also get a case feeder, so I really don't think that Dilllion has anything over Hornady.  

I have loaded thousands of 45acp, 30-06, 223, 44mag, 357mag and 40SW and had good results with the LNL AP.

Hornady also rebates a fair amount of bullets with purchase, so you may want to consider that in the costs.  

Blue, Red, Green, it's really a chevy vs ford issue, and after all isn't the purpose to shoot more and save some money?

Good luck with your search.  What ever you end up with, you will likely have for the rest of your life, so choose carefully!

Echap
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 1:30:12 PM EDT
I went Red as well. No regrets at all.
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 4:08:32 PM EDT







Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
Originally Posted By Mahamotorworks:



So looking at Presses is the only advantage to the 650 an Auto Index and the fact that I can use a case feeder?
Thanks
MAHA




650 (with casefeeder): place  bullet, pull handle = loaded round
550 (without casefeeder available for .223): place bullet, place brass, pull handle, advance shell plate = loaded round
Doesn't seem like much till you multiply by 10,000. or 20,000








AND if you process a lot of say, .223 rifle brass, the reduced effort is dramatic because you have two cycles; a case prep cycle followed later by the reloading cycle.  That means you have to handle each piece of brass at least twice and that gets tiring on your hands and really, really old fast.
Case prep cycle = 550 (casefeeder isn't available for any necked rifle cases): insert brass, pull handle, advance shell plate, insert brass, pull handle, advance brass, etc. = processed brass.
Later, your reloading cycle = (Rt hand) pickup & insert brass, (Rt hand) grab handle, (Lt hand) advance shell plate, (Lt hand) set bullet, (Rt hand) pull handle   = loaded round, repeat for each round
Case prep cycle = 650 (with casefeeder): dump brass in casefeeder, pull handle, pull handle, etc = processed brass
The casefeeder and auto indexing on the 650 means all you have to do is dump, pull, collect in bin.  I can process over 1,000 pieces of brass in an hour without breaking a sweat.  And, because my case prep toolhead has a Dillon trimmer on it too, I decap, resize, and trim my brass all at once without ever touching a single case.
Later, your reloading cycle = Dump brass in casefeeder, (Lt hand) set bullet,
(Rt hand) pull handle   = loaded round, you right hand doesn't release the handle and your left only sets the bullet





 
 
 
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 4:55:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/22/2010 4:57:40 PM EDT by jonblack]
If you buy the 550 you'll end up telling your friends/foes all the excuses why you didn't get a 650. Kinda like why you bought a Savage 110 instead of a 10. Or why you bought a Savage 10 instead of a Remington 700. But guys, it shoots as good or better and it was cheaper. All while you were secretly drooling on your buddy's 700.

If you buy the 650 you'll have the extra station for something like a powder check/cop/lockout as well as be able to seat and crimp in separate steps. You will also be able to use a RT-1200 to process .223 brass with all the speed and convenience of a case feeder. That task will be a drag with anything else other than spending the dough on a Giraud.

The sting of the extra $100 or so will wear off quickly. You never hear anyone who bought a 650 say "Well I was going to get a 550 but this one is just as good because..."

Get the 650 and you'll be cranking out 600+ rounds an hour

jonblack
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 5:51:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/22/2010 6:36:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 5:46:55 AM EDT
I agree the LNL Promotion is a good deal but for me the press just seemed to be not a beefy so I went with the 550 instead, it does not matter which color as long as you roll your own you are ahead of the game, but for me the koolaid is good !!!!

Link Posted: 10/23/2010 6:40:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By panther308:
I agree the LNL Promotion is a good deal but for me the press just seemed to be not a beefy so I went with the 550 instead, it does not matter which color as long as you roll your own you are ahead of the game, but for me the koolaid is good !!!!

http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy268/panther308/Reload%20Room/100_0712.jpg


NICE pistol!
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 11:24:24 AM EDT
having had both red and blue, i can say from experience GO WITH THE 650 and never look back knowing you absolutely did the right thing!
Link Posted: 10/23/2010 3:43:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Specop_007:
Originally Posted By panther308:
I agree the LNL Promotion is a good deal but for me the press just seemed to be not a beefy so I went with the 550 instead, it does not matter which color as long as you roll your own you are ahead of the game, but for me the koolaid is good !!!!

http://i798.photobucket.com/albums/yy268/panther308/Reload%20Room/100_0712.jpg


NICE pistol!


The pistol was given to me by my Father, it's a Remington Army New Model (Stamped on barrel) all I did was clean it with some Hoppes #9 and oil it and put it on display
He said it belonged to my Great Grandfather and was passed down, not in bad shape still has some blueing left on it and the brass trigger guard is not bad

Link Posted: 10/24/2010 3:04:58 AM EDT
DON'T wanna hijack this thread but have a related question. i keep reading here "we won't flame you here this isn't GD" so i'll bite, whats GD? i know theres a similiar site called M$ or something like that and one of the moderators is a real asswipe that threatens to ban you everytime you disagree w/his holy opinion, but thats not the GD site is it?
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 5:03:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sergeant69:
DON'T wanna hijack this thread but have a related question. i keep reading here "we won't flame you here this isn't GD" so i'll bite, whats GD? i know theres a similiar site called M$ or something like that and one of the moderators is a real asswipe that threatens to ban you everytime you disagree w/his holy opinion, but thats not the GD site is it?


General Discussion.
Link Posted: 10/24/2010 6:29:45 AM EDT
Hey thanks for the lack of flamage  I mostly lurk the GD (General Discussion) part of the site and usually keep my opinions to myself.  I have waded into these discussions before, and just wanted for the OP to at least look at some other offerings.  I don't know the pricing, but think that the Hornady is cheaper than the 650 is.  

I do know that I have been really happy with mine, it's a really early serial number that I bought used at a gun show for $75.  It was screwed up, but I took a chance on it.  I contacted Hornady and they gladly shipped me some new parts.  The indexing part had gotten broken.  I offered to pay for the parts, but they insisted on covering it under warranty even though I bought it used.  It's been great for the last 7 years or so and I always try to give them kudos when possible.  I guess they earned that from me.

So at any rate, good luck to the OP getting into reloading.  It's a great side hobby to shooting that I really enjoy.

Echap

Link Posted: 10/24/2010 11:49:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By chop13chop:
Originally Posted By sergeant69:
DON'T wanna hijack this thread but have a related question. i keep reading here "we won't flame you here this isn't GD" so i'll bite, whats GD? i know theres a similiar site called M$ or something like that and one of the moderators is a real asswipe that threatens to ban you everytime you disagree w/his holy opinion, but thats not the GD site is it?


General Discussion.


i knew that! i was testing you.  

Link Posted: 10/25/2010 4:43:41 AM EDT
I have a Lee progressive press and it works on Handgun ammo with no issue.  To get it to work with rifle it is a PIA, too much tweaking and constantly stopping to fix something.  I know that I will be shooting more .223 now that I have built 3 AR's in the last 3 months so the extra speed will be worth it.  It is hard to swallow the $1200 price tag for the set up. I know it will be worth it but it is a lot to start out with.

Where is the best place to buy a Dillon Press?

Thanks

MAHA
Link Posted: 10/25/2010 5:05:24 AM EDT
buy once /cry once.

go straight to the 1050!
I load enough once fired military brass that the swageing capability sold me on the 1050.
I use my 650 now for brass prep.
Link Posted: 10/25/2010 8:00:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mahamotorworks:
I have a Lee progressive press and it works on Handgun ammo with no issue.  To get it to work with rifle it is a PIA, too much tweaking and constantly stopping to fix something.  I know that I will be shooting more .223 now that I have built 3 AR's in the last 3 months so the extra speed will be worth it.  It is hard to swallow the $1200 price tag for the set up. I know it will be worth it but it is a lot to start out with.

Where is the best place to buy a Dillon Press?

Thanks

MAHA


Grafs with your C&R FFL discount.



Link Posted: 10/25/2010 8:48:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck:
Grafs with your C&R FFL discount.


From what I understand, if you use the C&R FFL dealer discount you have to pay for shipping as opposed to getting the discounted consumer shipping rates. I also understand shipping is high from Graf's. I have no first hand experience, just going by what I have read on forums. Here is a thread talking about it and I am sure you can find others if you looked.

If you spend $400 or more at the Brian Enos site you get free shipping. So you have to weigh it all out and see which one is the better deal.

If you don't have a C&R at the moment and want the press now, then any discount would be a moot point.

jonblack
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 4:39:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mahamotorworks:
I have a Lee progressive press and it works on Handgun ammo with no issue.  To get it to work with rifle it is a PIA, too much tweaking and constantly stopping to fix something.  I know that I will be shooting more .223 now that I have built 3 AR's in the last 3 months so the extra speed will be worth it.  It is hard to swallow the $1200 price tag for the set up. I know it will be worth it but it is a lot to start out with.

Where is the best place to buy a Dillon Press?
Thanks

MAHA


Try the EE here. The Dillon presses come available from time to time. When they do, they don't last long.
I searched the EE, and Ebay for a while, looking for a good deal on a used setup.
I found that these machines are very popular and in demand. Because of this, I didn't find many "good" deals on used stuff. They were selling for close to new retail prices. You might get lucky and find a cheap used rig, but I didn't.
I finally just bought a new 550B from Valley Outdoor Gear. (vodgear.com) It came with one caliber conversion, shipped to me for $422.00.

Once the loader is setup, it's a pleasure to use. I've loaded over 1K of .45 acp to date. It's very user friendly.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 6:52:29 AM EDT
After sizing/depriming just put a lee decapping die in the first station to remover any media from the flash holes the 2nd time when loading.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 10:02:29 AM EDT
I had a LNL with case feeder for about a year.  While it did work I had to adjust things every few hundred rds or problems would develop.  The case feeding into the shellplates is not in the same class as with my 650.  I started to hate the retaining wire/spring as it wears out pretty fast when you are developing loads.  Maybe the ejection wire has been updated but I had to modify mine to eject 9mm cases.  It would not eject a single case before modification and after modification I couldn't use the last stage making me need to crimp and seat at the same station.

The only 2 things I can think of that is better about the LNL is cost and the way it indexes equated to slighly less spilled powder for me anyways.

I used to think my LNL was the bee's knee's and then I tried a 650.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 11:51:34 AM EDT

Where is the best place to buy a Dillon Press?

Thanks



I bought mine at Scheels they were a dollar or two higher than on line but no shipping and I got it then. Ok I did drive to the next town because they had one in stock, so gas did cost me. I did not want to wait.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 1:41:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ds3_09:
I had a LNL with case feeder for about a year.  While it did work I had to adjust things every few hundred rds or problems would develop.  The case feeding into the shellplates is not in the same class as with my 650.  I started to hate the retaining wire/spring as it wears out pretty fast when you are developing loads.  Maybe the ejection wire has been updated but I had to modify mine to eject 9mm cases.  It would not eject a single case before modification and after modification I couldn't use the last stage making me need to crimp and seat at the same station.

The only 2 things I can think of that is better about the LNL is cost and the way it indexes equated to slighly less spilled powder for me anyways.

I used to think my LNL was the bee's knee's and then I tried a 650.


you actually got a few hundred rds. out of ur LNL b4 it needed readjustment? wow! i could get like 10-12 and had to adjust SOMETHING. just when i thought i had one thing figured out 2 more went wrong. the only thing i have to adjust on my 650 is the rapidly sinking powder and primer levels.  the disappearing frustration level is more than worth the few xtra bucks the 650 cost. and theres a reason the 650 costs a bit more......IT WORKS! and they don't have to give away cheap bullets to get you to buy one.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 3:46:46 PM EDT
So what would need adjusting? I ask because I just got my LNL AP set up but havent yet sat down and cranked anything out. So its dialed in ready to go but hasnt went. Curious what I need to look out for. The only issue I ran into during set up was my PMC brass wouldnt prime due to a military crimp. But thats obviously not the presses fault.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 8:53:18 PM EDT
Things have to be adjusted on any press.  My LNL did work it just required more tinkering than my Dillon does.  My 650 needs things tweaked every now and then just less frequently.  Any piece of precision machinery is going to need something adjusted over time.

I'm not trying to shit on LNL's I just have used both and the Dillon works better for me.
Link Posted: 10/27/2010 9:16:34 PM EDT
I have 2 650's. I prep rifle brass in one pass and load in a second pass with cleaning stages in-between. I recently prepped about 5,000 223 cases over a week in my spare time- No adjustments ever needed. I recently loaded 500 rounds of 223 without a single re-do.

Every time you eliminate steps, you decrease the possibility of errors occurring, period. Having the case feeder eliminates stopping to drop brass in. Auto indexing eliminates another step. When I prep brass, all I do is cycle the ram and watch things happen. Also when I load the brass, I insert bullet, cycle press. Repeat X 100 and refill primer magazine.

I have seen 550 owners state that they did not want auto indexing. You can disable it on the 650 in about 1.632 seconds when setting the press up. I have used a 650 for 15 or so years now and never, ever wanted nor needed to disable auto indexing. It does also provide some safety in that you decrease the odds of a double charge by about 10million percent.

The 650 has 5 stations versus 4 on the 550. My 45 setup is:
1- size/decap
2- prime/drop powder
3- powder check
4- bullet seat
5- crimp

Or you could save $100...

Link Posted: 10/28/2010 1:33:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Specop_007:
So what would need adjusting? I ask because I just got my LNL AP set up but havent yet sat down and cranked anything out. So its dialed in ready to go but hasnt went. Curious what I need to look out for. The only issue I ran into during set up was my PMC brass wouldnt prime due to a military crimp. But thats obviously not the presses fault.


well...its long gone thank god. MY issues were brass feeding and more than that, primer feeding and seating. wouldn't fed a primer reliably more than 5 or so, and in loading .40, and .45acp 99 out of a 100 were not fully seated no matter the brass or primer. had to shim between the punch and frame to correct it. might as well have had a manual primer feed on it as it misfired feeding em constantly. rebuilt the whole priming system 2x. from the punch to the wire coat hanger adjustment arm.  case feeder sukked too. either didn't feed or overfed. nothing was ever consistant. maybe i just got a lemon, who knows. have had RL1000 and 550 before since the early 80's. shoulda stuck w/what worked for me. my 650 beats anything i;ve ever had though.
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