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Posted: 3/25/2009 4:02:14 PM EDT
What is required to remove crimped primers?

Also where does the crimping come into play?
Does it reduced the chances of a pierced primer and/or aid in sealing the flash hole?

Thanks
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 4:13:11 PM EDT
Any decapping die should remove them. Lee Universal Decapping Die is tough on them but so are their other dies.

It does NOTHING except keep the primer in when there is a high pressure excursion. Since you are reloading well under those pressures, crimping does nothing but slow reloading down.

It does NOT seal better, they are not any more resistant to piercing or any other benefit.


Remember, Uncle Sugar's ammo is meant to be used ONCE. And a case that shucks a primer can stop a rifle so that is why they want them crimped. They don't care about reloading.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 5:05:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2009 5:11:49 PM EDT by ma96782]
The military wanted a crimp for the reason that..............

Back in the old days........they had problems with primers backing out and sometimes even falling out of the case. The loose primer then got into the works and.........viola, the firearm was incapacitated.

Q: So, how can you prevent that from occuring?

A: Simple, crimp the primer in there so it won't fall out.
_____________

For the reloader........under normal conditions the crimp can/will interfere with the seating of a new primer.

YMWV, due to the various degree(s) of crimping that may be observed in various mfns ammunition products.

Q: How do you "treat a primer crimp" so that you can reload the cartridge case?

A: The two usual methods are: "Use a swage or use a reamer."

Military De-Crimping Thoughts

Part 1

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/squeezeplay/index.asp

Part 2

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/squeezeplay2/index.asp
_____________

My thoughts on how to accomplish the task?

IMHO…..DON'T USE THIS STYLE OF TOOL..........

www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=364181&t=11082005

Someone once asked: Why Not?

A standard reamer/de-burr tool could be used but, your results will vary greatly. In my younger days I tried using it but, I encountered problems with getting squared cuts and sometimes over doing it. YMWV.

Currently, I use these tools......

Large Primer Pocket Size #7777785

www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=682934

Small Primer Pocket Size #7777784

www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=643126

With, the Lyman Hand tool I've eliminated those problems. It has a safe edge on the bottom.....it won't cut the pocket deeper. The cutter will simply spin, via hand power, cutting off the crimp. It'll leave a slight chamfer to the primer pocket opening. It will correct an undersized pocket and an "out of round" condition, but only to the limits of the tool's cutting edge, under hand power. The main pocket diameter won't (under most circumstances) be enlarged excessively, unless you force the tool to the sidewalls. And, the cutting edge can be dulled, IF you wanted to do that. It's a "hand tool" and I wouldn't mount it in a drill........but, that's ME.

BTW, my Speer #10 Re-loading manual has a picture of a pocket knife being used to cut a military crimp out (page 71).

And, for commercial cases, IF needed, the Lyman hand tool will also slightly "chamfer" the primer pocket opening that has that "sharp edge." And, while it's in there.....IF, the primer pocket is too small, it'll do it's magic for that problem, too. Then again, sometimes just changing your brand of primer can work.

Perhaps, using the wrong tool and/or other misusage of a hand de-crimp reamer, may be the reason why, some people are so anti-reamer?

You know the saying about using the right tool for the job?

Well, IMHO......the right tool, is the one specially made for the job of addressing the crimp. In this case, I use a Lyman Hand military de-crimp reamer tool.

Not to mention that, the learning curve is so short. Just insert the tool into the primer pocket, twist, remove the tool and it’s done. It’s the sort of a mindless operation, that I can do while watching T.V.

IF, you choose the swage method (Dillon $94.95).........so be it.

YMWV.

Aloha, Mark


HTH.

Aloha, Mark





Link Posted: 3/25/2009 5:15:09 PM EDT
i have heard you can use a drill to ream the hole. does that work?
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 5:23:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By gmtech825:
i have heard you can use a drill to ream the hole. does that work?


Not the best way as there is nothing to stop the drill bit at the correct depth.

To learn the correct way to remove primer crimp click Here.

From the top of the page in tutorials.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 6:15:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2009 6:16:31 PM EDT by MillerSHO]
Great info, thanks a million.

One more question:

Does crimped primer brass from .mil generally mean it's up to a higher spec then some of the commercial offerings?

In other words, is it worth buying knowing tha even though it takes an extra step in reloading, but you're almost guaranteed good quality once fired brass?

Link Posted: 3/25/2009 6:25:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2009 6:28:03 PM EDT by ma96782]
Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Does crimped primer brass from .mil generally mean it's up to a higher spec then some of the commercial offerings?

In other words, is it worth buying knowing tha even though it takes an extra step in reloading, but you're almost guaranteed good quality once fired brass?




For accuracy.........your usual bench rest shooter would rather pay the extra money for __________ brand. Rather than to use a military 1x fired case.

For shooting out of a semi-auto firearm.........well, the brass gets "beat up."

Military cases vary by mfn.

Specs will vary as to the nation of origin.

Advice, get the "Made in USA" brass.
________________

Generally, IF we were to say that case weight was an indication of "thickness"............

For the .223 Rem/ 5.56 mm, case weights are very close.

For the .30 calibers, the gap gets bigger. The military brass usually runs heavier.

But, YMWV.
________________

As to the question IF it's worth it............

You decide.

All the choices come at a price.

Aloha, Mark


Link Posted: 3/25/2009 6:26:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
Great info, thanks a million.

Does crimped primer brass from .mil generally mean it's up to a higher spec then some of the commercial offerings?



Brass quality differs from manufacturer to manufacturer and even from lot to lot from same manufacturer. Being crimped doesn't mean anything other than you have a crimp to remove
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 6:44:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MillerSHO:
Great info, thanks a million.

One more question:

Does crimped primer brass from .mil generally mean it's up to a higher spec then some of the commercial offerings?

In other words, is it worth buying knowing that even though it takes an extra step in reloading, but you're almost guaranteed good quality once fired brass?



Yes, but the primer crimp is not the reason.

It's mil brass, designed for a higher pressure than 223 (only when in new condition) and is therefore top quality.

The main reason you want to buy once fired crimped brass is you know it's only been fired once. (cause the crimp is there)

Crimp removal is only a one time job for the live of the brass.
Link Posted: 3/25/2009 7:04:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 5:18:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2009 5:23:55 PM EDT by MillerSHO]
Originally Posted By dryflash3:
Originally Posted By gmtech825:
i have heard you can use a drill to ream the hole. does that work?


Not the best way as there is nothing to stop the drill bit at the correct depth.

To learn the correct way to remove primer crimp click Here.

From the top of the page in tutorials.


Does anyone know of another method that doesn't require so much money in tools?
Maybe a more manual way, trading my time for the overall cost of equipment?

Or maybe there's a different way?
I found this video on you tube of someone just using a bit on drill press setup. Vid
Link Posted: 3/27/2009 6:50:42 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 2:09:56 PM EDT
I was using the RCBS pocket swager on my Lee Hand Press (only press I have right now). It was a PITA to take the case off of the swaging button. So I made a choice and purchased the Dillon Super Swage.

That thing kicks ass! I now use the RCBS button to check cases for crimps and to verify if the Dillon swaged to my satisfaction.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 2:49:13 PM EDT
A light touch with your case neck chamfer tool will remove the crimp. Just be careful to not cut too much. a light touch and couple twists is all thats needed.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:26:45 PM EDT
Now if you are going for the most accurate ammo possible,stay with the l non crimped comercial
cases. I have tried to achieve the same class of accuracy with crimped military cases,such as
LC,WCC etc and even with small adjustments in the powder charge,I can not match the accuracy from
winchester,remington brass.
Could be case wall thickness,uneven primer pocket,flash hole size etc.
My RRA 24 inch wilson barreled 223 can certainly tell the differance and so can my Savage M12
For general SHTF ammo,plinking and fun target practice milt brass GTG
Does the crimped primer situation affect accuracy or is it just the brass itself ??
Hmmm I wonder if I can come up with a reloading test to figuire this out,yes another
excellent reason to get to the range next week
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:43:40 PM EDT
Don't fuck around.

Get a DILLON Super Swage.

Link Posted: 3/28/2009 10:00:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Derek45:
Don't fuck around.

Get a DILLON Super Swage.



^^^ +1!

I cringed at the 100 bucks to get one but it is so worth it.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 6:19:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Does crimped primer brass from .mil generally mean it's up to a higher spec then some of the commercial offerings?

In other words, is it worth buying knowing tha even though it takes an extra step in reloading, but you're almost guaranteed good quality once fired brass?



NO WAY!!! If I was in the sad situation of having to buy brass, I'd avoid mil brass for that reason. Commercial brass is just fine, and since it was never loaded to 5.56 pressures, it hasn't been exposed to as much abuse.

I'll take a 100 rounds of R-P brass over the same amount of LC brass any day. Some people, however, are enchanted by the letters LC on their brass.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 6:24:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Does anyone know of another method that doesn't require so much money in tools?


You can be decrimping brass for under $20 with the Hornady primer crimp removal tool. I got rid of my overpriced Super Swager and went 100% hornady cutter for all of my brass. You can get the whole kit or just the small rifle crimp cutter for under $10 at Midwayusa.com.

You chuck the cutter up in a hand drill that you lay on a work space and go to it. There's a short learning curve, but you can crank them out just as fast as the Super Swager for cheaper. Plus the Hornady isn't brass kind sensitive... you don't have to recalibrate or run brass by kind/brand.

A setting on the Stupid Swager doesn't necessarily translate to the next kind of brass. And it sucks to find this out when you're ready to start priming.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 7:21:38 AM EDT
I have the RCBS tool and it works pretty well.

It is not very fast though so processing a very large number of cases would be frustrating.

If your only doing a few hundred it wouldn't be a big deal.

The cases can stick on the swage button at times but it's not a big deal.

I have found that CCI small rifle primers seem to be a tiny bit larger in diameter than Winchester SRP and the RCBS tool does not swage the pocket large enough to easily seat CCI primers.

Winchester are not problem.
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 7:34:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Vortech347:
I have found that CCI small rifle primers seem to be a tiny bit larger in diameter than Winchester SRP and the RCBS tool does not swage the pocket large enough to easily seat CCI primers.

Winchester are not problem.



I don't KNOW EXACTLY about the size of the CCI vs. Winchester (never actually measured them) but, YES...........it feels as though the CCI primers are harder to seat vs. the Winchesters.

BTW.........I use a reamer and I use a hand held (LEE Auto Prime) seater, for rifle rounds.

Thus, I use CCI primers for the cases that have a "loose" primer pocket.

Loading by lot..........helps with the process of finding the ones with a "loose" pocket.

Of course certain assumptions and an amount of compromise is called for. But, nothing is perfect.

Aloha, Mark
Link Posted: 3/29/2009 8:55:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markm:
Originally Posted By MillerSHO:

Does anyone know of another method that doesn't require so much money in tools?


You can be decrimping brass for under $20 with the Hornady primer crimp removal tool. I got rid of my overpriced Super Swager and went 100% hornady cutter for all of my brass. You can get the whole kit or just the small rifle crimp cutter for under $10 at Midwayusa.com.

You chuck the cutter up in a hand drill that you lay on a work space and go to it. There's a short learning curve, but you can crank them out just as fast as the Super Swager for cheaper. Plus the Hornady isn't brass kind sensitive... you don't have to recalibrate or run brass by kind/brand.

A setting on the Stupid Swager doesn't necessarily translate to the next kind of brass. And it sucks to find this out when you're ready to start priming.


Good info, thanks.
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