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1/25/2018 7:38:29 AM
Posted: 12/14/2001 5:12:02 PM EST
I was at my local gun shop and once again found myself longing for a heavy barrel bolt rifle in .308. I have many areas of my rifle collection covered but still don't have a good quality long range bolt rifle.

Anyway, I have narrowed my choices down to two different avenues of purchase. The first route is to buy a Remington 700PSS(.308) for $885 and then wait another 6 to 8 months for accessories. I like this rifle alot but have a problem with the price! The trigger and large foregrip area is very, very nice.

The second choice is the Savage 10FP(.308) for only $420. This rifle handles very nice, has a nice matte finish, and had a surprisingly good trigger. The stock wasn't quite as good as the Remington's stock but good around the pistol grip area where it counts. At $420 I would still be able to buy a nice case, bipod, scope, and ammo.

I really am leaning towards the Savage but would like your guys input. SO what do you all think? Anything I need to know about the Savage 10FP that I don't know about? I plan to use this rifle mainly as a long range (100-300+ yards) sniper rifle with occassional use as a pig gun. I want to be able to get 1/2" MOA with hand loads out of this rifle setup.

So any input is very much welcome.....Thanks

Link Posted: 12/14/2001 5:50:27 PM EST
[Last Edit: 12/14/2001 5:43:23 PM EST by HBAR]
The Savage's are great shooters, I don't think you would be disappointed. By the way I have REM. VLS 26", it is a great shooter as well, but if 1/4 doesn't make that much difference get the Savage, if it does and price isn't that much of a consideration, get the Remington. Would I trade my Rem for a Savage no, if I had it to do over, I would seriously consider the Savage.
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 7:34:52 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 7:46:57 PM EST
A Savage will give you Sub MOA, but I don't think it will go as far as 1/2 MOA in .308. In fact I don't know of ANY FACTORY rifle that will give you this kind of accuracy out of the box.

I would suggest that you save up for a custom rifle instead. Robar makes a fine rifle based on a Remington Action. Though it must be said that Remington does NOT make the best actions: simply the most popular.
Chandler makes a good rifle, so does Jarret.

A rifle built on a HALL Action is the way to go. Hall Actions are stiffer and milled to tolerances that Remington owners can only dream of.

Obermeyer makes good barrels.
Since you are going to be using handloads..why restrict yourself to .308 when there are better cartridges out there such as a 30-378 or 300 WSM.

Link Posted: 12/14/2001 8:37:30 PM EST
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 8:42:58 PM EST
Here's an excerpt from a post I made on another thread---

---Re the Savage rifle, AmericanPie, when I first decided to get a rifle and consulted with the "experts" at
work, I was really put down because my choice of a Savage 110FP TACTICAL in .308 wasn't good enough
for these guys. I thought it was, according to the test done in GUNS&WEAPONS FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT.
I was all set to just "get a rifle" and begin to learn how to shoot...which, when looking back, is what I
should have done.
I then began the two year oddessy of not having a rifle at all because of the confusion between this action
and that kind of feeding and the more I read the more I got confused until one day on a layover I walked
into the Big5 and there on the wall was my Remington700AS in 7mmRem.Mag.; all black with sights in a
synthetic stock of greenish/grey hue. I held it up and was hooked. I secretly had begun to lean toward the
Remingtons because of the Military/LE connection. So, I bought it right there.
When I told the "experts" at work I'd finally gotten my first big rifle, they got snobby because it wasn't
their particular choice. Especially the Winchester Model 70 in .30-06 boys. Hmmmph.
The novice mistake I made was listening to them; the expert mistake they made was not encouraging me
to get a gun sooner!---

In other words, 8 months worth of shooting won't happen if you wait.
I'm "sharing" my tale of woe because I don't want you to waste any time NOT shooting. GET THE RIFLE AND GET OUT SHOOTING. NOW.
You can trade or sell or change brands or whatever later.
Oh, yeah, did I mention I really like guns?
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 8:43:30 PM EST
Heel doggy! Heel! Good boy!

He mentioned price was a consideration and "long range" as 100 - 300+ yards. So maybe he doesn't need to spend a lot of cash to be happy.

What is the average price of a Hall action with a Obermeyer barrel and a box of 30-378 go for now days?
Link Posted: 12/14/2001 9:15:01 PM EST
I have the Savage 10FP in .308 ($375), bought a Leupold 3-9X40 Vari-X II ($225), sent it off to Leupold for elevation and windage target knob installation to get 1/4 MOA click adjustments ($81), bought the Sharpshooter trigger ($90), and had my local gunsmith install it ($75).

I've shot one 100 yd. three shot group of .375 inches. Typically, 5 shot groups are .5-.75 MOA and I'm not that great of a shooter. My 200 yd. shooting gives me groups of one and a half inches. The rifle is better than me past 100 yds.

The question of Remington vs. this Savage is difficult for a first timer. You could buy a POS Remington 700 rifle, shoot the hell out of it, and then use the reciever for a completely rebuilt $3000 rifle and it would be as custom as any out there.

You won't be able to do this with the Savage. Instead, just shoot it. The best route, I think, is to get a used Remington, shoot that for a a couple years and start finding out how far you want to go. Later, you can buy a custom stock, barrel, Leupold Long Range M3 Tactical scope, Badger Ordinance rings, and all the best stuff. This investment only makes sense if you have a range or place to shoot that's 500yds. and longer, otherwise get a deal on a Savage or a Rem. and a good scope.

Link Posted: 12/15/2001 5:45:00 AM EST
I'm curious as to where some of you Gentlemen get your info. I have both Remington and Savage rifles and both are fine rifles but you can get more rifle for less money from Savage.

Some of the positives Savage offers:

#1 Since all Savages are shot indoors at 100 yds before they are even packed up to be
shipped, and Remingtons are not, there can be no comparison. All Savages "must" shoot
or they don't get out the door.

#2 Because all Savages have button rifled barrels and Remington does not, the odds are
that the Savage barrel will be more uniform and have less stress.

#3 Because all Savages are reamed at low speed with piloted reamers and Remingtons use
non piloted high speed reamers, odds are the Savage will have a better chamber.

#4 Because all Savages are minimum headspaced (barrel nut) and Remingtons are not the
odds are the Savage will shoot more consistently.

#5 Because most Remingtons, out of the box have only one bolt lug making contact and
Savage uses a toggle headed bolt with 100% contact, odds are the Savage will experience
far less fliers. I have yet to see an out of the box Savage that doesn't shoot.
(But wait....we know the reason why....See #1

I won't argue that the Remington might hold its value better but that is a very small argument IMHO. I personally don't buy rifles with that thought in mind. I just want 'em to shoot.

As for customizing Savages there are many options. You can replace every component on the rifle if you wish. There may be more places to order from for Remington but I doubt you will find higher quality products or better service than Fred Moreo of SharpShooter Supply offers.
He is strictly a Savage 'smith who offers any component you would need for you rifle.


I picked the Savage action for a custom 22BR. I should get it from Fred in the next 2 weeks or so. Weather permitting we'll see how she shoots.

Link Posted: 12/15/2001 6:01:32 AM EST
That sound like a great idea!! Thanks for the offer. I will be down in that area soon with 240z and maybe we can all hook up at the Concord range for a shoot. I'll keep you informed. Thanks again.

Link Posted: 12/15/2001 6:09:26 AM EST
Thanks guy for the advise. I really just wjant an accurate shooter, not a high price race-gun, so I'll start saving for the Savage.

BTW, my ASA AR15 easily got 3/4" moa with handloads and scope....right out of the box too!! So surely someone can do the same with a bolt gun!

Link Posted: 12/15/2001 6:28:52 AM EST
Whoa there....! Who says Savage rifles won't shoot .5" groups? That's ridiculous. I shopped for a .308 bolt action for almost seven months thinking I was going to buy a Remington. After comparing the Remington to Savage it became a choice between "the big name brand" or "the better rifle". I went with Savage because it is clearly the better rifle. You pay for the name....Remington. A used 1996 110 FP with scope, bipod, sling and ammo found its way into my hands. It had exactly 165 rounds through it when I got it. It shot 1" groups at 100 yards at the outdoor range that is nearest to me. This was using American Eagle cheap ammo and the first time out with the rifle. The next step was to firelap the barrel and www.zediker.com is where I go to buy the coated bullets. Using Varget powder and some used .308 brass I loaded the 50 rounds and went to range again. After the procedure and a good cleaning, I shot some PMC factory loads. The groups were now dime sized or slightly larger. The rifle is "good enough" for me and this is my second Savage. If you're really serious about buying a Savage, take a look at their Varminter series. It comes in .22-250 and .308 as well as a couple of other calibers. You'll get a Choat stock, Sharp Shooter trigger adjustable to under 2 lbs., a 26" fluted stainless barrel and ....you won't be disappointed. Remingtons are fine rifles...but don't sell Savage short.
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