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Posted: 2/20/2009 7:37:53 PM EDT
Im planing on picking up one and ordering a 20 rds drum and do the ak grip conversion. Any one have pictures of one
Link Posted: 2/20/2009 8:08:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/20/2009 8:09:11 PM EDT by Stumps]
Check out MDARMS they have various pictures and manufacture the drums that work. I just got 4 drums today in the mail.
Link Posted: 2/20/2009 8:27:11 PM EDT
My drum is soon to be on its way also
Link Posted: 2/20/2009 8:40:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ikon:
Any one have pictures of one



Check out the pic thread on the SAIGA 12 forum
Link Posted: 2/20/2009 8:42:33 PM EDT
What do I think about it:

Cool toy, not anything I'd rely on to protect my family with.
Link Posted: 2/21/2009 4:33:28 AM EDT
thanks for the reply guys. i will be picking up one that has the conversion for 1300
Link Posted: 2/21/2009 5:06:52 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MisterWilson:
What do I think about it:

Cool toy, not anything I'd rely on to protect my family with.


Heh, I would bet $2 that you are giving advice on a shotgun that you do not even
own or probably have never fired...

Being an owner of a Saiga S-12 that has had alot of rounds through fired through it, this
is definately not a toy. I mean, c'mon, its a freakin' AK.

Rugged and tough and just as dependable as a Russian built AK you cant go wrong.

You have your shotgun Purists that spit on anything that is not a pump shotgun.

YEARS ago people did the same thing about revolvers and 1911s....

Check out saiga-12.com for more info about these shotguns.

LB

Link Posted: 2/21/2009 5:11:02 AM EDT
You can save yourself about $600 or so by doing your own conversion. Saiga12.com has a great forum that can help you do it yourself. Tromix makes a trigger guard replacement that makes the pistol grip conversion simple. That was always the hard part for the DIY conversion.

You can do everything yourself with a few simple hand tools and use the rest of the money for ammo and mags.

Link Posted: 2/21/2009 5:40:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By USMC_LB:
Originally Posted By MisterWilson:
What do I think about it:

Cool toy, not anything I'd rely on to protect my family with.


Heh, I would bet $2 that you are giving advice on a shotgun that you do not even
own or probably have never fired...

Being an owner of a Saiga S-12 that has had alot of rounds through fired through it, this
is definately not a toy. I mean, c'mon, its a freakin' AK.

Rugged and tough and just as dependable as a Russian built AK you cant go wrong.

You have your shotgun Purists that spit on anything that is not a pump shotgun.

YEARS ago people did the same thing about revolvers and 1911s....

Check out saiga-12.com for more info about these shotguns.

LB



I DO own one and I agree with MISTERWILSON. Not everyone on earth has bought into the taktikul horseshit––especially when the taktikul device does not point or handle naturally, has poor controls, and is overpriced.

It's a rifle platform adapted to be a shotgun. It's inferior to purpose built shotguns 99.9% of the time, and the only advantage it has in that .1% is a detachable magazine. Expensive range toy and not much else.
Link Posted: 2/21/2009 8:38:18 PM EDT
Im going to go with the best SG I own. My other one is an 870.

And now that it has the numerous magazine options?






Link Posted: 2/22/2009 5:09:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2009 5:10:06 AM EDT by YoungPatriot]
SAIGA-12 owner here too.

It's fun as hell at the rane but mag changes are clumsy. Storing rounds in a mag long term risks deformation and jamming problems. There is no bolt hold back. Anything above 5 round mags extend really far below the shotgun. The 10 round mags are almost comical. While I do not have a drum, I imagine the weight would really slow movement down.

To me, the gun feels like a prototype and fun range toy. If it had a magwell and bolt hold back I would like it much more.
Link Posted: 2/22/2009 5:41:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2009 5:50:33 AM EDT by El-cid]
Originally Posted By MisterWilson:
What do I think about it:

Cool toy, not anything I'd rely on to protect my family with.










Pssstttt.... A certain military uses this 'toy' and it performed well in Georgia.

Wow, look at those poor ergonomics on that range toy.
Link Posted: 2/22/2009 5:58:40 AM EDT
Ikor, You posted in my mags and drum for sale thread on the Saiga board that you had IM'd me, but I did not get an IM. I will hold the drum for a bit, please try resending the IM.
Link Posted: 2/22/2009 9:29:38 PM EDT
you got IM on there. pleas let me know if you dont get my IM.
Link Posted: 2/23/2009 3:36:54 PM EDT
Biggest POS ever!
Link Posted: 2/23/2009 5:16:48 PM EDT
$50 magazines and shitty ergonomics as well as a safety that requires you to take your hand away from the trigger guard in order for the weapon to be fired are enough for me to stay away. I've tried to like the Kalashnikov design but it isnt for me. Perhaps you will feel otherwise, as for me I will stick with my Mossberg 590 for shotty's, my Ar's for rifles and my Glocks for handguns.
Link Posted: 2/23/2009 5:24:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Msokol13:
$50 magazines and shitty ergonomics as well as a safety that requires you to take your hand away from the trigger guard in order for the weapon to be fired are enough for me to stay away. I've tried to like the Kalashnikov design but it isnt for me. Perhaps you will feel otherwise, as for me I will stick with my Mossberg 590 for shotty's, my Ar's for rifles and my Glocks for handguns.



Wow.

I wont say Saiga> 870> 590

nor M1> Ar15

nor 1911 > Glock.


I will say different strokes for different folks.



Link Posted: 2/23/2009 5:26:30 PM EDT
Got it now and replied
Link Posted: 2/23/2009 6:51:38 PM EDT
i reply to you on saiga-12
Link Posted: 2/23/2009 6:53:28 PM EDT
i reply to you on saiga-12
Link Posted: 2/24/2009 2:14:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2009 2:28:37 AM EDT by Crito]
Saiga 12 owner here.... It is a VERY VERY VERY VERY good semi-auto SHOTgun.

An 870 is a lot heavier with 6 shells then the saiga12 with 10 shells. Or that is how it feels to me.

Mossy 500 is just light...


But I like the saiga 12, I would protect my family with one any day. (edit all three types I would protect my family with, they are all good guns with pos. and negs to each, but NO big negs)

Saiga 12, 870 and 500 are all good shotguns. Its like apples and oranges.

If someone says that a Saiga12 is a toy, .. then i would reply "oh please and go buy another airsoft gun, keyboard commando dude or dudette."
Link Posted: 2/24/2009 9:04:39 AM EDT
Crito pretty much said it! If you don't like AK type firearms you probably won't like the Saiga-12 and consider it in the "Toy" category. It is, however, based on one of the most proven firearm designs and engineered by Comrade Kalashnikov's own replacement Nikonov. The gas system is not picky and will cycle almost anything up to 3 inch magnums and doesn't kick like a mule.
Link Posted: 2/24/2009 9:11:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2009 9:12:16 AM EDT by AR-180]
I like them a lot. I would compare them favourably with the Remington 870.

I have never been able to justify the expense of the conversion.
Link Posted: 2/25/2009 9:50:58 PM EDT
FWIW, I know, not think, that I WANT TWO!
Link Posted: 2/26/2009 1:41:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By YoungPatriot:
If it had a magwell and bolt hold back I would like it much more.


Yours doesn't have a BHO? Most of them come with them, although it's a manual bolt hold open. Not a last round BHO.

The Saiga forum's store has them, but they're currently out of stock.

Also, there is a magwell now. Check out: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=35986

So there, your 2 gripes with S12's have been nullified.



Originally Posted By XxEMPTY_MAGxX:
Biggest POS ever!


Good input. Anything else to add to your helpful comment?
Link Posted: 2/26/2009 3:33:01 AM EDT
Yeah i shoot shotguns at least once a week and one of the guys we shoot with shoots one.
The things is picky as hell about ammo, me and the other guy shoot 870 they eat anything.
Its just a big piece of clunky of stamped metal others may have had good experinces with them,
i didnt. He asked what i think about it. Not trying to hurt anyones feelings.
Link Posted: 2/26/2009 4:08:21 AM EDT
It's a $200 shotgun with awful ergonomics, selling here for $600 with even worse ergonomics.
Link Posted: 2/26/2009 12:49:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By XxEMPTY_MAGxX:
Yeah i shoot shotguns at least once a week and one of the guys we shoot with shoots one.
The things is picky as hell about ammo, me and the other guy shoot 870 they eat anything.
Its just a big piece of clunky of stamped metal others may have had good experinces with them,
i didnt. He asked what i think about it. Not trying to hurt anyones feelings.


See, that's a little more helpful to the OP. As opposed to just saying it's a junk gun, and not saying why you think that.

Anyway, if it's picky on ammo, have your buddy check out how many gas ports it has. If he bought it new, chances are RAAC will pay for it to be fixed (and also for shipping), if the gas ports are messed up. There have been quite a few coming out with not enough, or blocked gas ports. He might want to check into it. RAAC has been great with taking care of its customers. They have been paying for all costs to fix the gas port problems, at zero cost to the customer (well, obviously you have to give up your gun for a little while).



As far as the comments on ergonomics.......it's a preference thing. Obviously, if you like and are comfortable with the AK platform, you'll like an S12. If not, then you probably won't.

Link Posted: 2/26/2009 1:34:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/26/2009 3:17:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
The Saiga-12 has made shooting 3 gun much more fun for me, and I am much more competitive with one (regardless of the division I shoot in) with it than I have been with any other shotgun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulBn-PVq-AQ

They do have their quirks, but the speed advantage reloading 10 in the same time it takes an average shooter to reload 2 shells makes up for it.





You are a fucking animal with that thing!

Two different sights? Was one an Aimpoint? Whats the other one??



Link Posted: 2/26/2009 6:54:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
The Saiga-12 has made shooting 3 gun much more fun for me, and I am much more competitive with one (regardless of the division I shoot in) with it than I have been with any other shotgun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulBn-PVq-AQ

They do have their quirks, but the speed advantage reloading 10 in the same time it takes an average shooter to reload 2 shells makes up for it.

Dude, that video is bad ass. I can't wait to shoot mine. It's been sitting in the safe since Nov. 3rd.
Link Posted: 2/26/2009 9:36:26 PM EDT
I love my saiga 12, but I haven't had it for a few months as Tony has it over at Tromix to make it an even better machine.
Link Posted: 2/28/2009 4:26:35 AM EDT
thanks guys. i have one on the build right now. keep them info coming i really appreciate it
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 9:23:50 AM EDT
I've been interested in these for a long time now. Two friends just got theirs. One is virgin stock while the other was modded AK style. The 20rnd drums are a must have.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 11:46:56 AM EDT
I've been gearing up to buy a shotgun (an 870) for while now, for HD and hunting. If I can only get one or the other for a while, would a saiga be a good alternative? I'm a Jersey resident, so it would have to be compliant - no grip, no 10 round mag. I'm basically riding an impulse buy wave if I get one. I wasn't really considering getting a semi shotgun. Why wouldn't a just buy semi auto Remy? I dont want to get a Saiga if I have to put work and money into it to make it reliable. Any opinions on my situation?

ETA: I'm going to the Valley Forge gun show tomorrow, and I'm wondering if I should put the Saiga on top of my impulse buy list. I'm not wasting $1000 though just because its a hot item.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 8:04:25 PM EDT
If I was stuck with the choice between a neutered Saiga and 870, I'd take the 870. WTF is the point of the Saiga if you cant put a pistol grip on it or use detachable high-cap mags? FWIW I have a S12 and several 870's. The S12 is not a wingshooting gun for sure but it kicks major ass for 3-gun competition use. I will probably be picking another one up soon.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 8:45:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By adrock1978:
I've been gearing up to buy a shotgun (an 870) for while now, for HD and hunting. If I can only get one or the other for a while, would a saiga be a good alternative? I'm a Jersey resident, so it would have to be compliant - no grip, no 10 round mag. I'm basically riding an impulse buy wave if I get one. I wasn't really considering getting a semi shotgun. Why wouldn't a just buy semi auto Remy? I dont want to get a Saiga if I have to put work and money into it to make it reliable. Any opinions on my situation?

ETA: I'm going to the Valley Forge gun show tomorrow, and I'm wondering if I should put the Saiga on top of my impulse buy list. I'm not wasting $1000 though just because its a hot item.


Look at Sinstra's video above. Tell me you can do that with an 870. You cant.

Buttstock only? Not really an issue imo. No hi caps? More frequent mag changes- same as loading a tube (quantity) except hella faster, and they are widely available and priced cheaper than Glock mags ($20).

Mine required no work or money, mine didnt have the out of spec holes missing, but I understand from reading they are more than willing to take them in and fix them under warranty. The downside is 870 parts are plentiful, the upside is the AK platforms known and noted reliability.

If you know someone who knows someone who has one, try to test drive it, I think it will sell itself. I have one of each, and if I had to let go of one, despite my longtime love for my 870, I would throw it in the trash before considering letting go of my Saiga12.

And for no hicaps & no pistol grip allowed, no conversion needed. 500-600 for the gun and thats it, no $1000.
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 8:48:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/13/2009 9:02:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/22/2009 12:56:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/22/2009 1:15:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
The Saiga-12 has made shooting 3 gun much more fun for me, and I am much more competitive with one (regardless of the division I shoot in) with it than I have been with any other shotgun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulBn-PVq-AQ

They do have their quirks, but the speed advantage reloading 10 in the same time it takes an average shooter to reload 2 shells makes up for it.


I thought about getting one, but instead I bought a Benelli M4, I heard about the reloading quirks and that's what turned me away from the Saiga. Although now that I look at it I too am a lefty and this could give me an advantage in reloading.
Link Posted: 3/24/2009 7:18:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SinistralRifleman:
The Saiga-12 has made shooting 3 gun much more fun for me, and I am much more competitive with one (regardless of the division I shoot in) with it than I have been with any other shotgun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ulBn-PVq-AQ

They do have their quirks, but the speed advantage reloading 10 in the same time it takes an average shooter to reload 2 shells makes up for it.


What mags are you using in that video? Seems like not one issues using them. I just ordered a S12 and I'm having it converted. I would like to get mags that work before I pick the S12 up in a few weeks.
Link Posted: 3/24/2009 8:18:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 8:21:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2009 8:29:23 AM EDT by RABIDFOX50]
Originally Posted By XxEMPTY_MAGxX:
Biggest POS ever!





So what is/was your experience with the S12? Obviously you make a pretty hard opinion of it so I ask how did you come to your most informative conclusion?

Link Posted: 3/28/2009 1:44:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 2:33:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2009 2:37:17 PM EDT by SOC]


Vid

I did the conversion myself and tweaked it a bit inside as well as out.

It eats EVERYTHING.

From Wallmart Federal 2 3/4 #8 to 3" buckhammer and TAP buckshot.

No other shotgun even comes close.

Need hard evidence? Look at what the #1 shotgun for 3 gun is.
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 3:09:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/28/2009 7:02:33 PM EDT
I like the S-12, I really do. But, I bought an S-20. Best $180 I ever spent!

I need one of those Ace folding stocks now.

Not every one's cup of tea, but I like mine, and as long as I can get the Federal #2 buck loads, yes, I would use it for self defense.

I would actually take my Benelli 12 before I reached for my Saiga, and probably an AR15, or even my old Mini-14, before a shotgun, but those are different arguements.

I do wish that I had bought an S-12 while they were still cheap, as well as a 7.62x39 Saiga, when they were cheap.
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