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Posted: 2/8/2006 9:12:41 AM EDT
Looks like some of the new changed features make it a canidate for the SCAR program now.

AR-15 style grip and magazine
NATO standard threaded FS
Adjustable buttstock that interchanges with AR-15s
quick change barrel
built in 1913 rails on forearm and reciever
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 11:24:03 AM EDT
Well, not sure what you are asking. The SCAR program has already selected the FN. Do you mean a replacement program for the M16 in general issue?
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 12:10:42 PM EDT
I was told that it has been post-poned now since the HK-416/417 was made available.


Its not uncommon for the USGOV to hold a second round of competitions.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 1:39:13 PM EDT
I'm still waiting to see a source on rumors such as:

-The SCAR trials are re-opening because the HK 416/417 is so much better of a platform.
-The SCAR trials are re-opening because the XM8 is so good.
-The FN ARM rifles are a failure and SOCOM is dumping them.
-The RobArm was the best entry but was DQ'ed for not having a blank firing adapter.
-The SCAR trials are re-opening for any given reason.

I consider most rumor's about the SCAR trials that were spread after the SCAR trials to be a load of BS. FN got the contract, and they're filling it. The FN ARM is not a failure, and Law Enforcement Agency ARM rifles will be ready for sale in the next few months. (FN will verify this by e-mail.)

Also, just so you know, I've heard that SIG/Swiss Arms did have an entry to both the SCAR program and the SASS program. The costs involved in their development was more than likely the corner stone for civilian legal 556's.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 2:40:09 PM EDT
Olds is corect. I think you are confusing the SCAR selection with the abortive attempt to select a replacement for the M16 in general service. The FN is already being fielded.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:12:20 PM EDT
That Robarm rumor is the one that gets me. I think it looks like a cool rifle, but they are not stupid. They would not toss out the best rife on a technicality. Although I will say they probably know FN can handle production and Robinson is pretty small and that must have worried them.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:16:33 PM EDT
There was alot of "gargage" associated with the SCAR trials. As great as the M16 is, it isn't going to be around to much longer and many of the vendors knew that the M16s replacement would likely be the winner of the SCAR contract. Since a pre-sol was already announced for a new Carbine and LMG, I think the wheels are already turning to replace the M16. While I have been involved in weapons testing, I can testify that sometimes the best weapon isn't the winner, its much more complicated than that. Politics, budget and personal connections/career ambition all play a factor. I am not challenging FN's victory as I have experience with thier SCAR canidate and its an amazing weapon which certainly earned a victory. Even though its an excellent weapon, being made by FN USA didn't hurt, as they are very well connected and polictically powerful. I am pretty sure FN could win contracts with a Daisy Red Rider....that being said, alot of time/money was spent on developing SCAR canidates and when the results were announced and FN's entry

was selected, millions of dollars were lost and people weren't happy. Rumours of impropriaties and corruption and court cases followed, but FN is hanging tough. The FN is already in the field, unfair practices or otherwise, the FN entry was an excellent weapon and it deserved to win, for the most part. Alex Robinson had some reasonable objections....he is a spook, IMO but I think all weapons should be fully evaluated and tested, provided they meet the requirements and he wasn't given a fair shake....and if you belive the rumors, nobody was. The pre-sol that was announced will be the real slug fest for the M16s replacement. All the usual suspects will show up, plus a few new comers. FN is going to have a leg up on all the entries because thier weapon will be the furthest developed. There is a big difference in the performance of a production weapon with combat experience and that of a prototype. The SCAR issue is settled, FN won and thier weapons are in the field killing terrorists. The only way the SCAR program would be re-done is if a lawsuit was successful and corruption claims were legally substantiated, then maybe.....as of now, its a done deal and everyone is gearing up for round two.
Link Posted: 2/8/2006 8:52:49 PM EDT
It might have something to do with this notice I found featured on Murdoc:
FBO DAILY ISSUE OF FEBRUARY 05, 2006 FBO #1532
SOLICITATION NOTICE
10 -- 5.56mm Carbine Weapon
Some excerpts:
"The U.S. Army TACOM-Rock Island, Rock Island, IL 61299, on behalf of the Program Manager for Soldier Weapons (PM-SW), has a requirement for a non-developmental carbine that is capable of firing U.S. standard M855 and M856 ammunition."
The contract is for 200,000 weapons maximum that must be equipped with standard Picatinny rails and weigh under 6.5 pounds. There's also a solicitation notice out for a belt-fed LMG.
See for yourself:
http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/02-February/05-Feb-2006/FBO-00979943.htm
http://www.fbodaily.com/archive/2006/02-February/05-Feb-2006/FBO-00979937.htm
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 1:21:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/9/2006 2:04:18 PM EDT by Master_Blaster]

Originally Posted By Blackmagic94:
I was told that it has been post-poned now since the HK-416/417 was made available.


Its not uncommon for the USGOV to hold a second round of competitions.



Besides everything already mentioned, the AR platform doesn't meet some of the SCAR program requirements. For example, it most likely couldn't function in a harsh environment w/o maintenance (required), couldn't meet the MRBS/MRBF minimums (required), doesn't have a user-level removable, QC-type bbl. & a folding+LOP-adjustable stock (both required).
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 1:57:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Ryno_the_wyno:
There was alot of "gargage" associated with the SCAR trials. As great as the M16 is, it isn't going to be around to much longer and many of the vendors knew that the M16s replacement would likely be the winner of the SCAR contract. Since a pre-sol was already announced for a new Carbine and LMG, I think the wheels are already turning to replace the M16. While I have been involved in weapons testing, I can testify that sometimes the best weapon isn't the winner, its much more complicated than that. Politics, budget and personal connections/career ambition all play a factor. I am not challenging FN's victory as I have experience with thier SCAR canidate and its an amazing weapon which certainly earned a victory. Even though its an excellent weapon, being made by FN USA didn't hurt, as they are very well connected and polictically powerful. I am pretty sure FN could win contracts with a Daisy Red Rider....that being said, alot of time/money was spent on developing SCAR canidates and when the results were announced and FN's entry

was selected, millions of dollars were lost and people weren't happy. Rumours of impropriaties and corruption and court cases followed, but FN is hanging tough. The FN is already in the field, unfair practices or otherwise, the FN entry was an excellent weapon and it deserved to win, for the most part. Alex Robinson had some reasonable objections....he is a spook, IMO but I think all weapons should be fully evaluated and tested, provided they meet the requirements and he wasn't given a fair shake....and if you belive the rumors, nobody was. The pre-sol that was announced will be the real slug fest for the M16s replacement. All the usual suspects will show up, plus a few new comers. FN is going to have a leg up on all the entries because thier weapon will be the furthest developed. There is a big difference in the performance of a production weapon with combat experience and that of a prototype. The SCAR issue is settled, FN won and thier weapons are in the field killing terrorists. The only way the SCAR program would be re-done is if a lawsuit was successful and corruption claims were legally substantiated, then maybe.....as of now, its a done deal and everyone is gearing up for round two.


I'm not a RobArm hater, but that whole SCAR issue seems pretty goofy to me.

If RobArm did have the best thing there, or even close, how come RobArm still hasn't gotten the XCR going. RobArm has reportedly told people that they have had issues trying to find quality outsourced parts. Now if the XCR was ready to sweep the SCAR trials, why in the hell would they be having such troubles still to this day?

I've also heard that RobArm decided to make these problem parts in house, and that is why the XCR has been delayed for so long. Again, this doesn't add up. If the XCR was good enough to win the SCAR contracts, wouldn't they have atleast made a little progress in the past year?
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 2:55:47 PM EDT
Exactly.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 3:49:54 PM EDT
Thge XM8 will NEVER be the SCAR because if it is entered it will be a government sponsered entry, thus if it win the competition will most likely file lawsuits for a possible favoritism.

The HK416/7 would have won that competition hands down. They already had the GL portion but thanks to FUCKING Colt, we may never know.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 3:55:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rem700PSS:
The HK416/7 would have won that competition hands down. They already had the GL portion but thanks to FUCKING Colt, we may never know.





The HK 416 was no where near having the neccessary requirements for the SCAR program. Aside from that, I'm wondering if you've shot the FN ARM side by side to the 416 to determine such strong opinions.

The 416 is great, but it's still an AR with a piston gas system. While it is a super big improvement, it's no wonder rifle.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 4:29:29 PM EDT
I bet the 416 would have won on the cost issue alone. No need to buy lowers.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:53:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Blackmagic94:
I bet the 416 would have won on the cost issue alone. No need to buy lowers.


This is brought up quite a bit, and it's something I have to respectfully disagree with.

First off, how ever many uppers you buy from HK, is how many uppers become garbage from the current inventory. So say SOCOM bought 1000 416 uppers, they would in turn have to throw away that many standard impingement uppers to make room.

The SCAR rifles are supposed to be priced very similarly to a standard M4. The 416 upper cost is very high, and agency cost for the upper conversion is set to be about the same price as a complete M4, or what the FN rifle is supposed to cost.

The HK 417 appears to be very expensive. The FN rifles feature 90% interchangeability between the Light (5.56N) and Heavy (7.62N) models. Majority of the parts found on the 417 are proprietary, but we have yet to see a final production model.

HK would have to set up an American production facility. I highly doubt their current facility would be enough to produce such items in the numbers required. The cost of a new facility would be reflected inthe price of the 416/417 system.

It is just my opinion, but I don't think such a plan would be so easy, nor cheap. It is a relevant concept, but I don't see it having any large finacial benefits. JMO.
Link Posted: 2/9/2006 5:56:17 PM EDT
I'll take one of each. The true ARFcom way.

Why not have:

20" SP1
14.5" M4
11.5" SBR
SCAR-L CQC
SCAR-H Standard
Sig 556
FN FS2000

Best of all....they all shoot the same standard ammo (aside from the .308).
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