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Posted: 3/1/2011 12:55:16 PM EST
I want to build/own a sbr for the first time,is it ok to go ahead and buy the stripped lower from a dealer first ,then fill out form,then get signd by law, then send for tax stamp,then proceed with build after recieving stamp. Woud stis procedure be ok or am i confused?
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 12:59:27 PM EST
Yes. You have to have the lower first before you can complete a Form 1 to make a SBR since it's the part with the ser#.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 2:55:22 PM EST
Hypotheticaly: could you put a matching serial number on the upper and register it that way? So you would have a complete matching numbers upper/lower registered as an SBR instead of the lower only?
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 3:05:52 PM EST
Originally Posted By USMCBuckWild:
Hypotheticaly: could you put a matching serial number on the upper and register it that way? So you would have a complete matching numbers upper/lower registered as an SBR instead of the lower only?


You still need the lower first so you know what ser# to put on the Form 1.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 3:06:05 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/1/2011 3:06:28 PM EST by warpig8654]
...
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 3:06:19 PM EST
Assuming we are talking about an AR-15 variant, No. The serial number must be on the lower and that is what gets registered. Now, the other required engraving can be on the barrel, but then you would have to engrave each barrel. A serial number could be engraved on the upper, but it would have not legal meaning. The ATF has decided that in an AR-15 the legal serial number must be on a lower.

I think that is what you asked, but I'm a little confused. Restate your question if I didn't answer it.

That's not legal advise!

Just Sayin!
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 4:07:16 PM EST
That is what I was asking. See I'm new to SBR as well, and I have a thousand dummy questions. To me, it is ass backwards to resgister the lower, which is easily changed, instead of the upper which the barrel is attached to. Maybe i am looking to far into it, but that jus seems silly to me. So I can have a 10.5 upper, but i can't attach it to a regular lower without the lower being registered? Maybe I am the dumb one.
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 4:21:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 3/1/2011 4:22:51 PM EST by BladedRonin]
Get a new (virgin) lower, have it registered, engraved, and play the waiting game.
Some like to take their lower (virgin- never has had a stock put on it, marked other or pistol by your FFL) and attach
a pistol tube on it and go ahead and obtain all of the parts and assemble it. That way you can play with it
and test it while you wait for your stamp. Since you are applying for an SBR, Im going to assume the state you live in (wasnt paying attn)
will allow AR pistols.
Good luck

Oh, and from what i understand, as long as yopu have the pistol lower/sbr lower you can make/own as many different barrels and calibers
SBR'd as long as you document it right
Link Posted: 3/1/2011 4:46:28 PM EST
Originally Posted By USMCBuckWild:
That is what I was asking. See I'm new to SBR as well, and I have a thousand dummy questions. To me, it is ass backwards to resgister the lower, which is easily changed, instead of the upper which the barrel is attached to. Maybe i am looking to far into it, but that jugs seems silly to me. So I can have a 10.5 upper, but i can't attach it to a regular lower without the lower being registered? Maybe I am the dumb one.


Don't try and apply logic to the process.

Ask as many questions as you need to.

Just Sayin!

Link Posted: 3/2/2011 2:46:56 AM EST
Originally Posted By USMCBuckWild:
That is what I was asking. See I'm new to SBR as well, and I have a thousand dummy questions. To me, it is ass backwards to resgister the lower, which is easily changed, instead of the upper which the barrel is attached to. Maybe i am looking to far into it, but that jus seems silly to me. So I can have a 10.5 upper, but i can't attach it to a regular lower without the lower being registered? Maybe I am the dumb one.


The lower is no more easily changed than the upper or vice-versa but that's not the point. The point is that you need the lower which has the required ser# to register it. Semper Fi!
Link Posted: 3/2/2011 4:21:20 AM EST
Originally Posted By USMCBuckWild:
That is what I was asking. See I'm new to SBR as well, and I have a thousand dummy questions. To me, it is ass backwards to resgister the lower, which is easily changed, instead of the upper which the barrel is attached to. Maybe i am looking to far into it, but that jus seems silly to me. So I can have a 10.5 upper, but i can't attach it to a regular lower without the lower being registered? Maybe I am the dumb one.


The lower is considered a firearm. The upper is not. That is why the lower must be registered and the upper has no bearing on the process.

You can do whatever you want with a 10.5" upper, but until you install it onto a lower, you do not have a firearm. Therefore, there is no reason to regulate the purchase of the upper itself.
Link Posted: 3/10/2011 5:25:14 PM EST
The best route to go has two possibilities:

1. If you have an AR already:
A. Buy a stripped lower and assemble it, put your upper on it and shoot the piss out of it to insure the lower is GTG.
B. Disassemble and have your lower engraved with the requisite information.
C. Send in your paperwork with a check and wait.

2. If you do not already have an AR:
A. Buy a stripped lower, pistol buffer tube and all other parts of your planned SBR. Assemble all parts into a pistol configuration.
B. Go shoot the piss out of it to insure the lower and the planned SBR configuration is GTG.
C. Disassemble and have your lower engraved with the requisite information.
D. Send in your paperwork and check.
E. Reassemble into a pistol configuration and shoot the piss out of it while waiting.


Option 1 has fewer steps.
Option 2 allows you to shoot your planned configuration while you wait for your stamp.
Both options will insure that your lower is in spec and GTG, that the engraver has not screwed, ruined, broken or lost your lower.

If one of these options is followed step by step and the lower is out of spec. lost. broken or somehow ruined a new lower will cost you $100.

If the steps are completed out of sequence and the lower is lost, broken, out of spec or some way ruined it will cost you $300, $100 for the new lower and $200 for a new stamp.

The stamp is non-transferable and non-refundable. The Treasury department does not care whether you paid the tax on a fully operational SBR, or a useless paper weight.

Make sure everything is GTG before you send them your hard earned money!
Link Posted: 3/11/2011 4:38:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By USMCBuckWild:
That is what I was asking. See I'm new to SBR as well, and I have a thousand dummy questions. To me, it is ass backwards to resgister the lower, which is easily changed, instead of the upper which the barrel is attached to. Maybe i am looking to far into it, but that jus seems silly to me. So I can have a 10.5 upper, but i can't attach it to a regular lower without the lower being registered? Maybe I am the dumb one.


As I understand it; the only way that you can own a 10.5” upper is that the lower is already registered as an SBR or as a Pistol.
Otherwise, you can not have in your procession any upper that is less than 16” barrel.

Link Posted: 3/12/2011 2:54:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By lmssts:
Originally Posted By USMCBuckWild:
That is what I was asking. See I'm new to SBR as well, and I have a thousand dummy questions. To me, it is ass backwards to resgister the lower, which is easily changed, instead of the upper which the barrel is attached to. Maybe i am looking to far into it, but that jus seems silly to me. So I can have a 10.5 upper, but i can't attach it to a regular lower without the lower being registered? Maybe I am the dumb one.


As I understand it; the only way that you can own a 10.5” upper is that the lower is already registered as an SBR or as a Pistol.
Otherwise, you can not have in your procession any upper that is less than 16” barrel.



Incorrect. They are not illegal to own or possess. You just cannot have a short upper attached to your non-registered or pistol lower or you risk a getting jammed up on a felony.
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 11:43:21 AM EST
Thanks ,this is a good idea but dont you have to have a pistol only lower for this ?
Link Posted: 3/14/2011 11:57:03 AM EST
Originally Posted By jackwagon:
Thanks ,this is a good idea but dont you have to have a pistol only lower for this ?


A pistol lower for what?
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:11:43 PM EST
2. If you do not already have an AR:
A. Buy a stripped lower, pistol buffer tube and all other parts of your planned SBR. Assemble all parts into a pistol configuration.
B. Go shoot the piss out of it to insure the lower and the planned SBR configuration is GTG.
C. Disassemble and have your lower engraved with the requisite information.
D. Send in your paperwork and check.
E. Reassemble into a pistol configuration and shoot the piss out of it while waiting.


Link Posted: 3/15/2011 1:16:17 PM EST
Originally Posted By jackwagon:
2. If you do not already have an AR:
A. Buy a stripped lower, pistol buffer tube and all other parts of your planned SBR. Assemble all parts into a pistol configuration.
B. Go shoot the piss out of it to insure the lower and the planned SBR configuration is GTG.
C. Disassemble and have your lower engraved with the requisite information.
D. Send in your paperwork and check.
E. Reassemble into a pistol configuration and shoot the piss out of it while waiting.




That is fine. A lot of folks to this very thing.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 4:29:08 PM EST
So you dont have to use a pistol only marked lower to make a pistol????
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 5:09:05 PM EST

Originally Posted By jackwagon:
So you dont have to use a pistol only marked lower to make a pistol????

No. Any lower that has never been a rifle is GTG.
Link Posted: 3/15/2011 7:03:39 PM EST
Originally Posted By USMCBuckWild:
That is what I was asking. See I'm new to SBR as well, and I have a thousand dummy questions. To me, it is ass backwards to resgister the lower, which is easily changed, instead of the upper which the barrel is attached to. Maybe i am looking to far into it, but that jus seems silly to me. So I can have a 10.5 upper, but i can't attach it to a regular lower without the lower being registered? Maybe I am the dumb one.


The receiver of any firearm has always been the firearm and subject to NFA registration and/or any local registration as well as the place for serial numbers. Especially on an AR15 - the upper is the part that is easily replaced.
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 9:20:16 AM EST
[Last Edit: 3/16/2011 3:40:14 PM EST by ryknoll3]
Originally Posted By warpig8654:
Originally Posted By lmssts:
Originally Posted By USMCBuckWild:
That is what I was asking. See I'm new to SBR as well, and I have a thousand dummy questions. To me, it is ass backwards to resgister the lower, which is easily changed, instead of the upper which the barrel is attached to. Maybe i am looking to far into it, but that jus seems silly to me. So I can have a 10.5 upper, but i can't attach it to a regular lower without the lower being registered? Maybe I am the dumb one.


As I understand it; the only way that you can own a 10.5” upper is that the lower is already registered as an SBR or as a Pistol.
Otherwise, you can not have in your procession any upper that is less than 16” barrel.



Incorrect. They are not illegal to own or possess. You just cannot have a short upper attached to your non-registered or pistol lower or you risk a getting jammed up on a felony.


Warpig, I don't know if this is how you meant it, but you made it sound like you can't attach a 10.5" upper to a pistol lower. This is NOT true. You can attach ANY length upper to a pistol lower. You just can't attach a buttstock to that weapon. Also, if you have any AR's with 16"+ barrels, you should not possess a short upper unless you also have a registered lower or a pistol lower.

Finally, someone else said that a tax stamp is non-refundable. This is not exactly true. If you never build the SBR, you can write the ATF to get a refund. It may take 6-12 months, but you will get your money back.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 3/16/2011 2:10:07 PM EST
Correct. It was supposed to read non-pistol lower.
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