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9/22/2017 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 6/14/2005 6:55:03 AM EDT
The first generation rifle is sold out and we had a learing curve. Here is a simple guide to what we have found so far. This will also be posted on our web site. But this seems to be the best place to post this info. This info only applies to the 1st generation rifles. The 2nd generation is a good bit different.

AMMO
The R22 only works with good quality 22Lr ammo. It will not work very well with the bulk pack stuff, if it does it was luck of the draw. We recomend the following, CCI Minimags, Remington Subsonics, Federal Gameshock and Eley stuff. Avoid all bulk pack ammo, PMC and especially the Federal Champoin stuff. Aguila SSS will not reliably get more than 2 rounds off.

Magazines
The first generation rifle likes the Ramline 25 rounders the best, Bulter Creek hotlips and steel lips work great with 18-20 rounds. Eagles work great but make sure the feed ramp is there (someone is removing the feedramps from the Eagle 30 rounders). This cuases problems in both the R22 and 10/22. Avoid the Ramline 50 rounder, the follower tends to get jammed mid way through the mag, See the pic below.

The Ruger mags are very nice but if you are having problems removing them from your rifle, bevel the rear portion as shown below.


Mag catch
This is what is cuasing most of the problems in the R22. Each magazine brand has different specs, so if we set it to one type it may not work with another type. The latest rifles were shipped using the Bulter creek steel lips, so other mags like the hotlips and eagle dont fit very well. We can correct that. The picture below shows the difference in mag catchs. The top one is the old style and the bottom one is new type, it locks up the mags very well when set correctly.


Poor Ejection/Feeding
This is usually one in the same basic problem. The bolt is not going back far enough. The cuases are from the various vendors of the AR 15 parts. Each uses slightly different specs and springs. It can be fixed in the following ways. Make sure the face of your hammer is very smooth and has a coating of grease, at least for a break in period. Also, the bolts should have a notch in the rear as shown, if it does not send it back for the modification.


We will keep this first thread updated as we go along.
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 5:54:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/16/2005 7:21:55 PM EDT by RhinelandArms]
Here is the latest issue with the R22. The chambers need to be polished a bit to remove the black oxide finish. The black oxide in the chamber is very sticky stuff especialy when it gets a little fouled. A bristol brush used in a power drill can safely remove it. If it does not then we will have to remove it here.

UPDATE
The black finish in the chamber can be very difficult to remove with a bristol brush. If you can not get it moderatly shiny, send it in and we will get it.

This will greatly help with ejection and will allow you to use lower powered ammo.
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 9:59:21 AM EDT
Aside from, I presume, fixes for these issues, have any other neato things been incorporated into the 2nd gen rifles?

Are they still planned for shipping starting 2ndish week of July? I hate waiting :)

Also, can I ask what bipod is typically shown in the R22 photos?
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 7:20:41 PM EDT
The 2nd generation rifle uses slightly different internal dimensions so it operates much more smoothly. The down side is it does not like the Agulia super velocity ammo as it pushes the too fast. Other than that it will have all the refinements we have learnt to date built into it. Some of the other specs on the trigger housing and mag well will be redone as well.

So far we are still on track for the July 4thish shipping date.

We have 2 bipod types for the pics, the Harris pivoting bipod is what is on our web site. We also use the B-Square a lot.
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 9:10:33 PM EDT
Thanks! I can't wait for mine to show up at my dealer. hug.gif
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 9:39:40 PM EDT
Did my Mag catch ship?

wolf
Link Posted: 6/16/2005 10:58:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2005 1:58:17 PM EDT by 44-Canon]

The R22 only works with good quality 22Lr ammo. It will not work very well with the bulk pack stuff, if it does it was luck of the draw. We recomend the following, CCI Minimags, Remington Subsonics, Federal Gameshock and Eley stuff. Avoid all bulk pack ammo, PMC and especially the Federal Champoin stuff. Aguila SSS will not reliably get more than 2 rounds off.e


I've learned the hard way to stick to CCI mini mags for bulk ammo.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 2:45:13 PM EDT
Mine hates rem golden boomers. Fed bulk pack and Win Dynapoints work great, but the Rem stuff just likes to OOB ka-boom (when it doesn't double or tripple). I blame the ammo not the rifle btw. I will have to say, as long as all body parts are away from the ejection port, the ka-booms are safely contained in the receiver of the rifle.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 6:44:19 PM EDT
Why are you befouling a fine rifle like the R22 with crummy crappy Remington ammo?

You're making kabooms sound like fun, or at worst no more than a minor annoyance. They're not. Keep in mind that, one, every kaboom has the potential to leave a bullet stuck in the bore, and then the next one will REALLY kaboom, with potential barrel damage; two, a kaboom venting downward can wreck a magazine; and three, a kaboom can blow out the extractor.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 7:36:11 PM EDT
You are right, a ka-boom can be very serious. When I first started shootin this rifle I was mixing rounds in the mag. After checking the case heads of the failed rounds I noticed they were all REM. I didn't meen to make the Ka-booms sound fun, I was trying to compliment the receiver design (for example- I didn't get hurt). For the record anyone how shoots should be alert for a round that doesn't sound like the others (less or more of a pop). A squib round with a bullet stuck in the bore could ruin your day (or your rifle or parts of your body). This can happen with ANY round no matter how much you paid for it! To think other wise would be foolish.
To recap Rem golden bullets will short stroke the action and fire out of battery IN MY RIFLE (YMMV).
Every rifle is different, If you find a load that will not reset the hammer or causes your rifle to double STOP using that particular load!!!! It will cause a OOB blow-out sooner or later.
If I'm the only one who has experienced this than I'm glad. If I'm not then I hope the info above keeps someone from getting hurt.
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 2:01:08 PM EDT
Lets not forget that a chamber kaboom can also lead to a magazine kaboom and it doesn't get much more serious then a magazine kaboom.
Link Posted: 6/19/2005 6:33:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 44-Canon:
Lets not forget that a chamber kaboom can also lead to a magazine kaboom and it doesn't get much more serious then a magazine kaboom.


True, but I don't believe I have ever heard of a mag kaboom with ANY kind of .22 with a box mag. In something like the R22, the gas is going to vent out the chamber; not really much to set off a rimfire primer. I had a kaboom in my DPMS that blew out the extractor and knocked a chip out of the magazine and that was it. I know of at least four other DPMS kabooms that wrecked the magazines but didn't set off any rounds IN the magazine.

Meanwhile, in other news, I got in a brief shooting session with my R22 today. Limited time, and too windy for accuracy checks, so I thought I'd test some magazines.

In my last two sessions, you might recall (after installation of the Voquartsen extractor), I fired a total of 130 consecutive rounds of Winchester Dynapoints and CCI Minimags from a Ruger factory mag with NO malfunctions whatsoever, a personal best. Today I wanted to check out some Federal Walmart Bulk.

When installing the VQ extractor in mine, I noticed something interesting. With the stock extractor, I could put a fired case under the extractor (holding the bolt in my hand) and dislodge the case by pulling it straight forward almost all the time.

With the VQ extractor installed, I tried this test again. No amount of pulling would dislodge Winchester or CCI cases, but maybe half the fired Federal Bulks would come out. Looking at the Fed cases under magnification, it was easy to see that the forward edge of the rim was less sharply defined than the rims of the other two brands.

The Fed Bulk has proved to be very reliable in other guns, feeding well in just about everything, and exhibiting no special extraction or ejection problems. Last time I shot them in the R22, I got a few FTEs.

So today I tried ten rounds of the Fed Bulks in each of five different magazines with the following results:

Ruger factory: NO malfunctions.

Butler Creek Hot Lips: NO malfunctions, the first time EVER I've gotten ten consecutive perfect shots from this magazine.

Eaton #1: Last time I tried the Eatons (before the VQ extractor), they behaved so badly I didn't even make it through ten rounds before quitting. Today the first one gave one failure to feed and two FTEs.

Eaton #2: Two failures to feed, two failures to eject. I will NOT be using the Eatons in the R22 again.

Condor: One failure to eject.

I followed this up by plinking at rocks on the 125-yard backstop, hitting quite a few of them and scaring the crap out of the rest, I'm sure. I loaded the Ruger factory mag up five times for a total of 50 rounds. In this 50 rounds I had two failures to eject. Before the VQ extractor, I would have at least one to two FTEs from the Ruger mag with EVERY kind of ammo.

To sum up: Discounting the two crummy Eaton mags, I fired 80 rounds with only 3 FTEs, and this with known "bad" ammo! This is huge progress from my first sessions with this gun, in which I would have at least 2 to 3 FTEs in every ten rounds with every kind of ammo and mag.

It will be interesting to see how the BC and Condor mags behave with the Winchester Dynapoints. Next time. Oh, BTW, the R22 is VERY uncomfortable to shoot standing/offhand with hicap mags in place. The mag sticks out right where my arm wants to be. From now on I'll only shoot offhand with the Ruger mag.

Hope this is of help/interest to anyone.

Link Posted: 6/20/2005 9:25:29 PM EDT
Took mine out for a little fun and to work out some "issues" with it.
Ok for starters. JP AR-15 spring kit DOES NOT WORK. I have these in all my AR-.22's but the hammer spring and their great but this spring kit simply will not fire rounds off even with the stock supplied hammer spring. Swapped everything out and it now goes bang if there's a round
chambered. Ok 2nd. Mine will not work with the eagle 30 mags. Its tries to load the round into the left side of the chamber. I have tried everything well short of throwing them down range for
dynamic targets but I don't think the RSO would care for that much. So after talking to Thomas he said that the Jam-lines "cough cough" Ramline 30 rounders worked really well, So I bought one at the shop and what do you know. It shoots pretty darn good. But I will say it’s a mother BITCHHHHHHH to load. The other thing I liked about the Jamline is its size. .Its a stacked mag from the looks of it instead of the normal single stack so its about half as long as the Eagle 30rd ers. I have no idea how long they will last but guess we will see. I also have 12 10rd eagle mags coming wed so we will see how those work out. A note on the Ramline mags. The need to sit pretty high up in the mag well compared To the hotlips. So going back and forth with adjusting the mag height just isn’t Worth the work. I have a bulter creek loader coming and I’m praying to god
I can “err fix it” to load the ramlines and 10rd eagles.

Other parts coming are a VQ Extractor and charging handle. Oh and something
special "hehe" that I will just have to show you once I get in it and installed.

I only use Dyna points and Wolf Match for ammo. Blazers if I have to.
The ramline mags fed them all no problem. For grouping its taking me some time to get use to the trigger on it but I can easily get .3 at 25 yards if I do my part and that’s with
DynaPoints !! Almost as good as my worked DPMS Bull target setup. Lets see what else. Oh if your looking for a overkill scope for your target setup I HIGHLY reccommand the Barska scope I have. Scope Mines a 10/40/50 with A/0 on the side. Yes its overkill but What the hell I have had every other scope out there and this thing
Is just as good in the 300 or less buck range. If you do decide to Get one you need 30mm rings. Don’t buy the one piece scope mounts Since the upper rail on the R22 isn’t mill spec like the AR. They won’t fit. And make sure you get high or extra high for this scope or you won’t have
Any EV adjustment. I’m really looking forward to taking this thing Down to the farm and putting it to the50 / 100 and 150 yard test against “Sheila” my DPMS .22.

Will keep you posted.
Wolf
Link Posted: 6/21/2005 9:28:09 AM EDT
Hey I've got another question. I read somewhere (I think it was on another thread in this forum) that the mechanism in the R22 will work fine with .17HM2 ammo - is all that is necessary for this to work a change of barrel? Does Rhineland carry such a barrel? It'd be cool to have both on hand, I think.
Link Posted: 6/21/2005 2:20:54 PM EDT
Make that RAMLINE 25 rounders, these are single stackers and a brand new design they came out with. It is much better than anything else they have come out with to date.

On the 17m2, our barrel making machine is DOA so we are stuck on all projects until that is up and running again and can not finish the 17m2 testing.

It looks like we will have to add a full power AR 15 spring to slow the bolt down a bit. Testing wil 22 Aguila super hot stuff in the 2nd generation rifle shows that the bolt will move so fast the mag cant pop ammo up fast enough for it. Once we get out barrels and testing done we will offer the 17m2.

As a side note we have tried to blow up or even crack the R22 receiver with hot loads. Its just not going to happen.
Link Posted: 6/22/2005 5:13:04 AM EDT
So does this mean the Gen 2's won't make it to their planned ship date @ this time? That's OK by me, I want a rifle that works, just curious.

Thanks for the info on the 17m2.

And now I shall continue to strum my fingers on my desk while I wait. :)
Link Posted: 7/23/2005 10:58:37 AM EDT
Can this rifle benefit from a bolt buffer? Does the 10/22 or any other buffer fit?
Link Posted: 7/23/2005 11:05:43 AM EDT
The R22 ships with a hard plastic bolt buffer. It would be nice to get one made out of the same material that thay are using for the 10-22 aftermarket buffers (poly-something). It'll take some of the noise and shock out of fireing the rifle.
Link Posted: 7/23/2005 8:39:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Soup-Nazi:
It'll take some of the noise and shock out of fireing the rifle.


Noise? Shock? WTF are you talking about? If the thing were any smoother, it would be a water gun!
Link Posted: 7/23/2005 9:56:54 PM EDT
My rifle must be different. I have a 10-22t with a weapon craft bolt buffer in it that I can't feel or hear the bolt hitting. With my cheek on the stock of the R22 I can easily feel the bolt hitting the hard plastic buffer and see the rifle jolt because of it. My rifle must be different that yours if you don't have the same thing happening.
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 1:31:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Snake45:

Originally Posted By Soup-Nazi:
It'll take some of the noise and shock out of fireing the rifle.


Noise? Shock? WTF are you talking about? If the thing were any smoother, it would be a water gun!



Snake, I think what he's trying to say is his airsoft guns don't kick but
his real little .22 does

Wolf
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 9:53:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By wolf-ym:

Originally Posted By Snake45:

Originally Posted By Soup-Nazi:
It'll take some of the noise and shock out of fireing the rifle.


Noise? Shock? WTF are you talking about? If the thing were any smoother, it would be a water gun!



Snake, I think what he's trying to say is his airsoft guns don't kick but
his real little .22 does

Wolf



What I'm trying to say is that this would be a kick ass platform for a silencer. Half of the extra noise from firing is from the bolt slapping the back of the receiver, the other half is from chambering (bolt going forward).
Like I said, my rifle must be different that the ones you got because it does make a loud clank when hitting the buffer. You should consider yourselves lucky for getting rifles that don't do this.
Since there is something wrong wth my rifle (it is doing something that your rifles are not) I guess I'll have to call Rhineland Arms and find out why your guns are smooth as butter and mine has bolt indentations beat in to the buffer.
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 2:02:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/24/2005 5:48:30 PM EDT by wolf-ym]
I think it depends on what ammo you use. My buffer has the same indents your talking about.
If I use say mini mags or Veloators"SP?" then ya the bolt slammes back just like it does on my
DPMS AR/22's. But I mostly use Dynapoints which are subsonic and easyer on the bolt.
IF the kick bothers your that much put a brake on it. My bull DPMS has one and its
recoil is 3/4 less than my R22.

ETA Soup, can you take a pic of the bottom back of your bolt? it may not have the
cutouts. If thats the case then ya I'm sure its louder than ours.

Wolf
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 6:44:14 PM EDT
If you think an R22 clanks and rattles, you should put on some hard earmuffs and shoot some AR15 for a while. A little of that and you won't even notice your R22 going off ever again.

I was shooting my 10/22 with the WK buffer in it today and yes it is a little softer and smoother than an R22. R22 doesn't bother me in the least, though.
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 8:00:54 PM EDT
I think your hearing the bolt slam closed. even with mini mags and hot loads it dont even look like the bolt comes fully open when its fired. have a friend fire the rifle , and watch the bolt. but then again im sure the bolt is quicker than the eye.
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 9:45:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By kasudyo:
Can this rifle benefit from a bolt buffer? Does the 10/22 or any other buffer fit?




The recoil doesn't bother me. I was trying to answer the above question. The R22 is a great rifle, but anything man made can be improved upon. IMHO this rifle could benefit from a proper bolt buffer. This doen't mean that there is anything "wrong" with the rifle the way that it came from the builder. I'm sure the plastic buffer was installed for cost and manufactoring reasons. Takeing a lesson from the 10-22 world, there are better materials to use for a buffer, it just costs more, and the improvement may be to small to notice. In my 10-22 I noticed a BIG difference when I replaced the stock bolt stop with a urethane buffer. I believe a buffer of this material in the R22 would reduce the recoil from "butter smooth" to "damn there's a hole in my target the rifle must have fired!"

Anyone else want to try to answer Kasudyo's question? Or are we just going to get to read a few more airsoft jokes?
Link Posted: 7/24/2005 9:59:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jab:
I think your hearing the bolt slam closed. even with mini mags and hot loads it dont even look like the bolt comes fully open when its fired. have a friend fire the rifle , and watch the bolt. but then again im sure the bolt is quicker than the eye.


You are right, the bolt slamming shut does make the most noise. If you were to take your empty and unloaded rifle and pull the charging handle smartly to the rear, you will hear the smack/clunk that I'm talking about. During firing the rearward and forward movement is so quick the two sounds do tend to merge. I believe the buffer could be improved because when I replaced the buffer on my 10-22 that rear ward clank dissapered compleatly.
Please don't read to much into all this, I'm just stateing that the R22 could benefit from an upgraded bolt buffer, I'm by no means saying that it is required, or the rifle is unshootable without an upgrade or the recoil will hurt girly men or that the gun makes so much noise that it will scare woman and small children
Link Posted: 7/25/2005 4:33:24 AM EDT
Since the bolt buffer is literally a "drop-in" part, it wouldn't be too tough to fashion a new one out of a block of quieter material. What could anyone suggest as an effective material, and where to purchase a piece?

(personally I don't have any issues with the buffer noise in my R22, however I'd like to help pursue this upgrade)

Manford
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 12:17:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Soup-Nazi:
You are right, the bolt slamming shut does make the most noise. If you were to take your empty and unloaded rifle and pull the charging handle smartly to the rear, you will hear the smack/clunk that I'm talking about. During firing the rearward and forward movement is so quick the two sounds do tend to merge. I believe the buffer could be improved because when I replaced the buffer on my 10-22 that rear ward clank dissapered compleatly.
Please don't read to much into all this, I'm just stateing that the R22 could benefit from an upgraded bolt buffer, I'm by no means saying that it is required, or the rifle is unshootable without an upgrade or the recoil will hurt girly men or that the gun makes so much noise that it will scare woman and small childrenhr

I think you & I are on the same page, Soup-Nazi. This baby is utterly shootable and enjoyable. Does it "kick" too much? No, actually it doesn't kick at all, it gives me a light nudge whenever I pull the trigger... I could empty 10 rounds with it resting against my nuts. This isn't at the root of my question. I'm just more or less thinking out loud... If somebody had installed a silencer on this baby (I haven't installed a silencer on it and they're completely illegal in this state if I wanted to), I would imagine the loudest thing I'm sure would be the bolt bouncing back and forth. My imagination then brings me to the question of how to do something with that?
Link Posted: 7/26/2005 5:28:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kasudyo:
I could empty 10 rounds with it resting against my nuts.



han
Manford
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