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Posted: 7/13/2005 10:59:01 PM EDT
The 1300's MSRP is a bit lower than the 870, so I suspect it'll be a bit cheaper at the shop as well.
Seem to have basically the same features. I've had an 870, sold it to fund some tool purchases, which in turn, cost me even more $$ as I then needed more AR15 uppers, etc. Damn black-rifle-disease. Spent a few weekends this year shooting a friend's 1300, seemed to be a bit smoother than the 870. Also an all-around nice shotgun. So which should I get? Either way it'll be in 12gauge (cheap abundant ammo), and be used mostly for squirrel hunting and general "shooting stuff". |
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IIRC, the 870's got a whole load more of aftermarket accessories to suit your every need.....
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Aftermarket mods availability isn't that important to me. As I said, this will be mostly a hunting shotgun, not an uber-tactical-zombie-killer.
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Well it is obvious that you don't hang around here much because we have had some major food fights about this.
I am the resident Remington guy so I am in the 870 camp. I have shot both. Both are good guns. IMHO the 870 is a much better gun if for no other reason that there are more chokes, barrels, stocks for hunting and tactical uses available. If you are going to buy one shotgun for all needs then go with the 870. If this will be one of several shotguns you are planning to own then it does not matter. We need to get Bigger Hammer to do a write up on both and tack them to the top. He explains things very well. MIKE. |
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True story, Bigger Hammer is the man when it comes to such things |
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somemost of your hunting accecories like scope mounts, choke tubes and replacement barrels may be harder to find for the 1300 than the 870
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I've got two 1300s, one is a "defender", it came with the wood stock, but now has the ATI top folder and a light. It is so beutiful! I love it.
The other 1300 was a "black shadow" model with 28" barrel, I got it for about $199 on sale at the local discount store, even my mother said it was beutiful. It now has a Speed Feed level of plain pistol grip & forend, mag extension, chop sawed barrel to 19" and a light. I love this gun also! I also have a Remington 870 Express with the 28" barrel, it is my first shot gun, it is very strong, you can tell it is well made. Now I'll tell you what to think about when choosing one, the safty position. On the Remington the safty is in the rear of the trigger guard, I allways felt this was odd. On the Winchester it is in the front, IMO, this makes it easy to have your finger on the safty as you clear houses or walk through the woods, try that with the Remmy. |
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Winchester 1300 all the way. I like it features better, plus I feel the barrel-bolt lockup is better on the 1300, multi-lug, kind of AR like.
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Aside from the steel receiver, is there any other reason so many people are willing to tout the 870 as more durable than the 1300? Does it hold up better in inclement weather conditions, or is it simply a matter of psychology?
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i have both, I like both: the 870 has more accessories though. I like the locking system on the 1300
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If you would like to be able to shoot the inexpensive Walmart value packs...100 shells for $15....then get the 1300. The 870 express don't like them....at all.
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Would you please tell me which # and brand goes for $15/100 shells?
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+1, I've got a 1300 defender bedside. |
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Quoted:
hock.gifWould you please tell me which # and brand goes for $15/100 shells? Just last year I loaded up with lots of Remington #7 1/2 shells for $2.98 per box at walmart (<$12/100 shells). However, this year I saw the same shells for $3.27 per box. The $15 cases I saw I believe were federal and winchester. I could be wrong, but they should be easy to find in any walmart. |
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I voted with my back pocket and the 1300. I shot both and liked the 1300 better. A friend has a 870 police and After the 1911 Im buying now the 870 police will be next.
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Graziani,
I went to Walmart today. They had three brands...Winchester, Federal, and Remington in the 100 round value packs. For 12ga they were 2-3/4 inch 3 dram eq 1-1/8 ounce.........and they had both #7-1/2 or #8 shot. They were $15.22 They were not behind the counter. They were on the shelf in sporting goods where you can get them yourself. They're not listed on Winchester, Federal, or Remington's website. I guess they make them for Walmart only. |
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I voted for the 870 simply cuz.. i love em... only 1300 ive shot had a pistol grip it was fun... but i like the 870 remington born sorry. one good thig about the 1300 and ive been told the mod. 12 works great with the short aguila shells think the 1300 works with them too... the shells that are half as long. BTW discusser 15.22 for 100 field loads is a bit pricey shop around if you buy field loads from Big 5 or GI Joes you could pay 3.29 or as little as 2.99 a box which for 250 rounds your paying less than you would for 200 of walmarts specials but dont get me wrong ive shot the walmart federals no complaints but shop around it saves
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The other thing I like about the 1300 is that you don't have to worry about buying a mag extension for it, drilling out dimples and all that shit. Just buy it, put a SureFire fore-end on it and it's ready for business.
But since you are using it for hunting, that really wouldn't matter. Either will work just fine. |
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870 - hands down a better shotgun....
"If you would like to be able to shoot the inexpensive Walmart value packs...100 shells for $15....then get the 1300. The 870 express don't like them....at all." That hasn't been my experience at all - just out of curiosity, what problems arose from shooting those value packs through an 870 Express??? Just wondering, - georgestrings |
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After the 2nd shot, my 870 Express HD was locked up tight. I couldn't rack the pump to eject the shell. Then while I was still struggling with it, I remembered reading some posts on another forum where some other people stated having the same problem with their 870 and the walmart value packs. After about 5 minutes when the rim on the shell had cooled down, I was able to rack the pump and eject the shell. Needless to say...I decided not to load anymore of those into my 870. I also had my 1300 Defender with me so I shot with it for the rest of the session. No problems. Also, the short Mini-Aguila shot shells will work in the 1300 but not in the 870. Probably not too many people are interested in using the Mini-Aguilas, but I mention it because, to me, it illustrates how the 1300 is more reliable with a variety of ammo. |
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This is supposed to be a hunting gun, right? This means you will be out in nature walking around, hours on end?
Weight. Weight is a factory. If you compare an 870 with an 18" barrel to a 1300 with and 18" barrel, the 870 is a whole pound heavier. Keep in mind the 1300 has a longer mag tube and it's still lighter! I've not looked up and compared weights on the hunting length guns, but this is what I know to be true on the others. I have an 870 Express that started as a hunting gun with a 28" barrel. It is just too heavy to carry around all day when I'm already lugging extra ammo, water, and game. I put an 18" barrel on it, a pistol grip, flashlight, blah, blah, blah, it just sits and collects dust. I've got two Winchesters, a 1300 Defender and a 120 Ranger (predecessor to the 1300 in youth size). The Defender defends and the 120 goes hunting. I use the Winchesters all the time. On a side note, the 1300's are improved over the 120's. I'd take a 1300 over the other if both are available. As far as the 870 having a steel receiver, SO WHAT! Steel is just like plastic- there is good and there is bad. Aluminum- they make race car and semi (big truck) wheels out of aluminum. Mossberg uses aluminum on their receivers too. I've got a 17 year old Mossberg that's had hundreds if not thousands of rounds through it. It still works. My brother has a mossberg that is 16 years old and has the same amount of use. Out of the two, the only problem we have had is that my brother's gun needed a new magazine spring because it has been left loaded its entire life. Please note, the aluminum is fine, it was a steel part that went bad. One of the questions I have is what kind of hunting are you planning on? Bear, bore, deer, squirrel, rabbit, birds? The options available might matter depending on the type of hunting. 2guntomhttp://www.2guntom.com/454/group/2gunsfiring_v1.gif |
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Not at all true. |
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I like the 1300. My buddie's 870 is very picky when it comes to ammo. It does not like Wolf slugs, PMC blue shells (don't remember what type they are) and the Wally World brick ammo. Also, last weekend the magazine spring jammed in the tube ending our day. Came back to the house and took the +2 ext off and it sprang back to life, but then the follower was jammed half out of the tube and half in the receiver.
OTOH, my brother's 1300 and my other buddie's Mossy 500 have had no such problems. Maybe it is a lemmon, but the experience has definately turned me off to the 870. Oh yah, the 870's finish is shit. I live in AZ and it sits in my buddie's room (he is also my roomate) exposed, and there is surface rust every time we look at it. Granted, he does not coat his gun with oil all the time, but still. His is the "Police" model IIRC. |
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Well, better than 66% polled on this thread think so - and the market has indicated that gun owners overwhelmingly pick the 870 - the 870 has probably outsold the 1300 by atleast a 3 to 1 margin.... - georgestrings |
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I own six 870's, three Wingmasters and three Express. Two of my Wingmasters are 12 gauge and one is 20 gauge. My Express are one each of 12, 28 and 410. I shoot every Wednesday and most Sundays. All six of my 870's eat all ammo I feed them including Federal four packs from Walmart. MIKE.
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Fron ATF's web site:
Shotguns produced 2003: Remington 300,399 Mossberg 178,931 Mavrick 61,084 Winchester 42,650 The people have voted with their money. MIKE. |
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Weight of a 870 Express with a wood stock 7 1/2 lbs (Remington web site)
Weight of a 1300 with a plastic stock 7 lbs 4 oz (Winchester web site) |
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What "people" are you talking about? Of course there are more Remingtons and Mossbergs sold than Winchesters. Mossberg has military contracts and Remington has law enforcement and military contracts. I'm sure both of those supply many other local, state, and federal agencies. Winchester just caters to the civilian market as does Maverick (cheap Mossberg). Those numbers you showed don't apply. History shows that the government and law enforcement agencies don't always buy what's best. They often buy what is convenient, cheaper, or get it from whoever has greased their palm the most/best. 2guntomhttp://www.2guntom.com/454/group/2gunsfiring_v1.gif |
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The info I posted earlier referencing weight was on 18" barrel guns. The Remington 870, 28" barrel, synthetic stocks is 7.5lbs www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870expsyn.htm The Winchester 1300, 28" barrel, synthetic stocks is 7.25lbs www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=512&type_id=041&cat=012C Interestingly enough, when you switch to 28" barrelled guns with wood stocks, the Rem and the Win both weigh 7.5lbs. www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870expres.htm www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=512&type_id=906&cat=012C The synthetic stocked guns don't have enough weight difference to matter and the wood versions are identical. I stand corrected. hail.gif 2guntomhttp://www.2guntom.com/454/group/2gunsfiring_v1.gif |
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As far as I know Remington does not have a military contract for 870's at this time.
The people I am talking about are the 300 thousand that bought Remington shotguns as compared to the 42 thousand that bought Winchester shotguns. That is a very large difference. MIKE. |
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Winchester 1300 IS THE ONLY shotgun to eat Aquila "mini-shells" readily.
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To answer some questions asked so far:
It will NOT be used for home defense. I have an AR15 and a 1911 pretty much dedicated to that. This'll be mostly for squirrel and rabbit hunting. Since we can use rifles in this state for deer, if I ever get around to going deer hunting, I'll use a rifle for it. Thus availablity and ease of changing barrels is a non-issue. I don't see it being used for slugs. The 870 I had previously was plenty reliable with anything I cared to feed it. Its good to hear the 1300 is tolerant of various ammo as well. The ability to shoot the little mini-shells in neat, but since no one around here carries them, and I hate having to deal with mail-order stuff, its not really much of a selling point. I don't care too much about weight, since the areas I hunt are fairly flat (no real hills to hump a rifle around in) and other than the shotgun and a handful of extra shells, the only thing I'm carrying is a camelback of water. Squirrels and rabbits don't weight that much, especially when in zip-lock baggies inside the camelback pack. So as long as its not a 14lb rifle, the weight won't really bother me. |
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Ford Tauruses outsell BMW 325s too. High sales are not always indicative of quality in terms of "what is the best" - which in this thread's topic is highly subjective anyway. Further, is that all models from each manufacturer or just the 870, 1300, 500, etc quoted above? |
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Another thing I like about the 1300 is the recoil assisted pump. You can shoot one pretty damn fast and I think it is less prone to short-stroke.
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Very good question. |
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+1 I don't hate 870's, I just like 1300's a little better. |
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Sorry George, I don't think your logic holds up. Daewoo sells more cars in a week than Ferrari has ever built! By your logic a Daewoo (admittedly a nice little car) is better than a Ferrari? People buy things for many reasons, not all of them logical or even intelligent. Remingtons out number Winchester shotguns by roughly 15 to 1, but that has more to do with marketing, overall company strength, and decisions made many years ago by both the companies and LE agencies. I can find little difference ini the quality and function of the two in question and call it a draw. CaCrusin www.knoxx.com |
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If this shotgun is to used for small game then the answer is clear. I recommend a .410 bore or 28 gauge. There is nothing like a small bore for hunting. Much more fun. Since the 1300 is not offered in .410 or 28 then I guess you will just have to buy the Remington. MIKE. PS: I have the 870 Express in both! MIKE. |
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The thread starter said " Either way it'll be in 12gauge (cheap abundant ammo)... " .410's ain't cheap; and the 28's aren't abundant and they certainly ain't cheap either. The poll currently says: [ 40 ] Winchester 1300 [ 83 ] Remington 870 The people that have actually posted something to the thread: Winchester - 8 Lollypop_69 brentwal PBIR BSheppard LArifleMAN 2guntom chewbacca Shooterer Remington - 6 Mall-Ninja mike103 HIREFORFIRE DBerk ikor georgestrings There were some that said either or draw. So how many pages are we going for? 3? 4? 2guntom |
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It is not that the 1300 is winning but that we have had this fight several times and most are just bored .
I just like to break balls. The 1300/500/870/Nova/37 (if they were still made) are all good guns. But of those I prefer the 870. What I really feel strong about is all the useless shit people hang on their guns and the lack of shooting. Those here who have been in a fight know that five shots is alot. The shotgun should come to your shoulder and get on target with almost no thought. I can't see vertical foregrips, optics, ghost ring sights, heat shields, bayonets, AR stocks, drum mags, and all the other junk people buy would help the gun swing better. YES swing better! Shotguns are suppose to swing! They are not carbines that you aim. If you want a light carbine go the AR or AK side of the board and enjoy. Many here have talked about using their tactical shotguns for skeet and trap. Well I have seen several on this board try. They can't hit shit! YES shooting at targets moving at fifty miles a hour not milk jugs filled with water. My sixteen year old son can take a bone stock Remington 1100 in any gauge, fill it with five shells, stand at any station of a skeet field, and I throw a mixture of singles and doubles without him calling for a bird and he will hit all of the birds most of the time. Do you think he would have any trouble hitting five men? The trick to shooting is shooting. Shoot more, shoot more often. Beware of the man with one gun who shoots the shit out of it. Shoot trap, skeet, sporting clays, three gun, from a hand thrower, a spring thrower, or cans thrown in the air. Shoot until your gun feels like an extention of your body. Rant over I have to stop and buy shotshells on the way home. MIKE. |
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Well Mike, that 870 I was talking about is fitted with a Tasco Pro Point and I can shoot skeet pretty good with. Maybe not as good as just a bead, but pretty consistenly. The red-dot is nice for 60 yard slug shots! I was shooting a Bennelli (sp?) M1 Tactical which has the ghost ring and thought that was great for shooting skeet. Both the red dot and the ghost, as soon as skeet entered circle>pull trigger>dead skeet.
YMMV |
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Hey if you are shooting and it works then great. I just worry that many buy stuff and don't shoot. MIKE.
PS: Are we talking real skeet or hand thrown? MIKE. |
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I here ya on the not shooting part. But yes it is hand thrown. But a thrower duct-taped to a hockey stick can fling the pigeons real far real fast! |
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Thanks, but as I said in the first post, it will be 12 gauge because of the cheap and abundent ammo. Around here you can barely find anything in .410 (and what you can find sure as hell isn't cheap). 28 is slightly easier to find, but not by much, and still not cheap. Yes, smallbore would be more "fun". Then again, I'm currently using a .22 so "fun" isn't what I'm after here. |
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Both are good shotguns - I would look for an older Wingmaster 870 and build it up or buy a defender and add you personal mods. Shotgun shells in Wyoming Super Walmart in Evanston are $3.09 a box when bought in the 100 pack. Rollback deal - in light of fuel prices - At 15 cents a pop they are a very good deal.
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