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Posted: 7/13/2005 10:59:01 PM EDT
The 1300's MSRP is a bit lower than the 870, so I suspect it'll be a bit cheaper at the shop as well.

Seem to have basically the same features.

I've had an 870, sold it to fund some tool purchases, which in turn, cost me even more $$ as I then needed more AR15 uppers, etc. Damn black-rifle-disease.

Spent a few weekends this year shooting a friend's 1300, seemed to be a bit smoother than the 870. Also an all-around nice shotgun.

So which should I get?


Either way it'll be in 12gauge (cheap abundant ammo), and be used mostly for squirrel hunting and general "shooting stuff".
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 1:14:59 AM EDT
IIRC, the 870's got a whole load more of aftermarket accessories to suit your every need.....
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 3:33:21 AM EDT
Aftermarket mods availability isn't that important to me. As I said, this will be mostly a hunting shotgun, not an uber-tactical-zombie-killer.
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 6:13:48 AM EDT
Get both
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 9:03:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/14/2005 2:14:37 PM EDT
Well....That whole deal about Remington having more accessories used to be true....Then FN came out with the FN Tactical Police (Super 1300)...Now you can use many of your favorite AR-15 Accessories on your shotgun...Suddenly the amount of Sight Posts, Stocks, Grip, Slings and optics just got a whole lot broader for Winny fans.
Link Posted: 7/15/2005 3:21:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
We need to get Bigger Hammer to do a write up on both and tack them to the top. He explains things very well.

MIKE.




True story, Bigger Hammer is the man when it comes to such things

Link Posted: 7/15/2005 6:49:32 PM EDT
somemost of your hunting accecories like scope mounts, choke tubes and replacement barrels may be harder to find for the 1300 than the 870
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 8:39:59 AM EDT
I've got two 1300s, one is a "defender", it came with the wood stock, but now has the ATI top folder and a light. It is so beutiful! I love it.

The other 1300 was a "black shadow" model with 28" barrel, I got it for about $199 on sale at the local discount store, even my mother said it was beutiful. It now has a Speed Feed level of plain pistol grip & forend, mag extension, chop sawed barrel to 19" and a light. I love this gun also!

I also have a Remington 870 Express with the 28" barrel, it is my first shot gun, it is very strong, you can tell it is well made.

Now I'll tell you what to think about when choosing one, the safty position.

On the Remington the safty is in the rear of the trigger guard, I allways felt this was odd.

On the Winchester it is in the front, IMO, this makes it easy to have your finger on the safty as you clear houses or walk through the woods, try that with the Remmy.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 11:00:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/7/2005 1:37:18 PM EDT by brentwal]
Winchester 1300 all the way. I like it features better, plus I feel the barrel-bolt lockup is better on the 1300, multi-lug, kind of AR like.
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 12:48:37 PM EDT
Aside from the steel receiver, is there any other reason so many people are willing to tout the 870 as more durable than the 1300? Does it hold up better in inclement weather conditions, or is it simply a matter of psychology?
Link Posted: 8/7/2005 1:36:03 PM EDT
i have both, I like both: the 870 has more accessories though. I like the locking system on the 1300
Link Posted: 8/11/2005 10:51:29 PM EDT
If you would like to be able to shoot the inexpensive Walmart value packs...100 shells for $15....then get the 1300. The 870 express don't like them....at all.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 12:48:47 PM EDT
Would you please tell me which # and brand goes for $15/100 shells?


Originally Posted By discusser:
If you would like to be able to shoot the inexpensive Walmart value packs...100 shells for $15....then get the 1300. The 870 express don't like them....at all.

Link Posted: 8/12/2005 12:54:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By brentwal:
Winchester 1300 all the way. I like it features better, plus I feel the barrel-bolt lockup is better on the 1300, multi-lug, kind of AR like.



+1, I've got a 1300 defender bedside.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 1:11:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Graziani:
hock.gifWould you please tell me which # and brand goes for $15/100 shells?

Just last year I loaded up with lots of Remington #7 1/2 shells for $2.98 per box at walmart (<$12/100 shells). However, this year I saw the same shells for $3.27 per box. The $15 cases I saw I believe were federal and winchester. I could be wrong, but they should be easy to find in any walmart.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 1:20:15 PM EDT
I voted with my back pocket and the 1300. I shot both and liked the 1300 better. A friend has a 870 police and After the 1911 Im buying now the 870 police will be next.
Link Posted: 8/12/2005 9:56:33 PM EDT
Graziani,

I went to Walmart today. They had three brands...Winchester, Federal, and Remington in the 100 round value packs. For 12ga they were 2-3/4 inch 3 dram eq 1-1/8 ounce.........and they had both #7-1/2 or #8 shot. They were $15.22
They were not behind the counter. They were on the shelf in sporting goods where you can get them yourself.

They're not listed on Winchester, Federal, or Remington's website. I guess they make them for Walmart only.
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 10:48:20 AM EDT
I voted for the 870 simply cuz.. i love em... only 1300 ive shot had a pistol grip it was fun... but i like the 870 remington born sorry. one good thig about the 1300 and ive been told the mod. 12 works great with the short aguila shells think the 1300 works with them too... the shells that are half as long. BTW discusser 15.22 for 100 field loads is a bit pricey shop around if you buy field loads from Big 5 or GI Joes you could pay 3.29 or as little as 2.99 a box which for 250 rounds your paying less than you would for 200 of walmarts specials but dont get me wrong ive shot the walmart federals no complaints but shop around it saves
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 12:13:57 PM EDT


Picked up this beauty at a local pawnshop for $150 and I love it
Link Posted: 8/18/2005 2:49:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/19/2005 2:08:45 PM EDT
The other thing I like about the 1300 is that you don't have to worry about buying a mag extension for it, drilling out dimples and all that shit. Just buy it, put a SureFire fore-end on it and it's ready for business.

But since you are using it for hunting, that really wouldn't matter.

Either will work just fine.
Link Posted: 8/21/2005 8:52:38 AM EDT
870 - hands down a better shotgun....


"If you would like to be able to shoot the inexpensive Walmart value packs...100 shells for $15....then get the 1300. The 870 express don't like them....at all."



That hasn't been my experience at all - just out of curiosity, what problems arose from shooting those value packs through an 870 Express??? Just wondering,



- georgestrings
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 2:03:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By georgestrings:
870 - hands down a better shotgun....


"If you would like to be able to shoot the inexpensive Walmart value packs...100 shells for $15....then get the 1300. The 870 express don't like them....at all."



That hasn't been my experience at all - just out of curiosity, what problems arose from shooting those value packs through an 870 Express??? Just wondering,



- georgestrings




After the 2nd shot, my 870 Express HD was locked up tight. I couldn't rack the pump to eject the shell. Then while I was still struggling with it, I remembered reading some posts on another forum where some other people stated having the same problem with their 870 and the walmart value packs. After about 5 minutes when the rim on the shell had cooled down, I was able to rack the pump and eject the shell. Needless to say...I decided not to load anymore of those into my 870.

I also had my 1300 Defender with me so I shot with it for the rest of the session. No problems.

Also, the short Mini-Aguila shot shells will work in the 1300 but not in the 870. Probably not too many people are interested in using the Mini-Aguilas, but I mention it because, to me, it illustrates how the 1300 is more reliable with a variety of ammo.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 3:13:50 PM EDT
This is supposed to be a hunting gun, right? This means you will be out in nature walking around, hours on end?

Weight. Weight is a factory. If you compare an 870 with an 18" barrel to a 1300 with and 18" barrel, the 870 is a whole pound heavier. Keep in mind the 1300 has a longer mag tube and it's still lighter! I've not looked up and compared weights on the hunting length guns, but this is what I know to be true on the others.

I have an 870 Express that started as a hunting gun with a 28" barrel. It is just too heavy to carry around all day when I'm already lugging extra ammo, water, and game. I put an 18" barrel on it, a pistol grip, flashlight, blah, blah, blah, it just sits and collects dust.

I've got two Winchesters, a 1300 Defender and a 120 Ranger (predecessor to the 1300 in youth size). The Defender defends and the 120 goes hunting. I use the Winchesters all the time. On a side note, the 1300's are improved over the 120's. I'd take a 1300 over the other if both are available.

As far as the 870 having a steel receiver, SO WHAT! Steel is just like plastic- there is good and there is bad. Aluminum- they make race car and semi (big truck) wheels out of aluminum. Mossberg uses aluminum on their receivers too. I've got a 17 year old Mossberg that's had hundreds if not thousands of rounds through it. It still works. My brother has a mossberg that is 16 years old and has the same amount of use. Out of the two, the only problem we have had is that my brother's gun needed a new magazine spring because it has been left loaded its entire life. Please note, the aluminum is fine, it was a steel part that went bad.

One of the questions I have is what kind of hunting are you planning on? Bear, bore, deer, squirrel, rabbit, birds? The options available might matter depending on the type of hunting.

2guntomhttp://www.2guntom.com/454/group/2gunsfiring_v1.gif
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 3:57:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By georgestrings:
870 - hands down a better shotgun....


- georgestrings



Not at all true.
Link Posted: 8/22/2005 11:47:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2005 11:40:50 AM EDT by chewbacca]
I like the 1300. My buddie's 870 is very picky when it comes to ammo. It does not like Wolf slugs, PMC blue shells (don't remember what type they are) and the Wally World brick ammo. Also, last weekend the magazine spring jammed in the tube ending our day. Came back to the house and took the +2 ext off and it sprang back to life, but then the follower was jammed half out of the tube and half in the receiver.

OTOH, my brother's 1300 and my other buddie's Mossy 500 have had no such problems.

Maybe it is a lemmon, but the experience has definately turned me off to the 870.

Oh yah, the 870's finish is shit. I live in AZ and it sits in my buddie's room (he is also my roomate) exposed, and there is surface rust every time we look at it. Granted, he does not coat his gun with oil all the time, but still. His is the "Police" model IIRC.
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 1:03:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By georgestrings:
870 - hands down a better shotgun....


- georgestrings



Not at all true.





Well, better than 66% polled on this thread think so - and the market has indicated that gun owners overwhelmingly pick the 870 - the 870 has probably outsold the 1300 by atleast a 3 to 1 margin....



- georgestrings
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 11:34:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 11:44:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 11:53:59 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 12:46:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
Fron ATF's web site:

Shotguns produced 2003:

Remington 300,399
Mossberg 178,931
Mavrick 61,084
Winchester 42,650

The people have voted with their money.
MIKE.



What "people" are you talking about? Of course there are more Remingtons and Mossbergs sold than Winchesters. Mossberg has military contracts and Remington has law enforcement and military contracts. I'm sure both of those supply many other local, state, and federal agencies.

Winchester just caters to the civilian market as does Maverick (cheap Mossberg). Those numbers you showed don't apply.

History shows that the government and law enforcement agencies don't always buy what's best. They often buy what is convenient, cheaper, or get it from whoever has greased their palm the most/best.

2guntomhttp://www.2guntom.com/454/group/2gunsfiring_v1.gif
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 1:14:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
Weight of a 870 Express with a wood stock 7 1/2 lbs (Remington web site)

Weight of a 1300 with a plastic stock 7 lbs 4 oz (Winchester web site)



The info I posted earlier referencing weight was on 18" barrel guns.
The Remington 870, 28" barrel, synthetic stocks is 7.5lbs www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870expsyn.htm
The Winchester 1300, 28" barrel, synthetic stocks is 7.25lbs www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=512&type_id=041&cat=012C

Interestingly enough, when you switch to 28" barrelled guns with wood stocks, the Rem and the Win both weigh 7.5lbs.
www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870expres.htm
www.winchesterguns.com/prodinfo/catalog/detail.asp?cat_id=512&type_id=906&cat=012C

The synthetic stocked guns don't have enough weight difference to matter and the wood versions are identical. I stand corrected.

hail.gif

2guntomhttp://www.2guntom.com/454/group/2gunsfiring_v1.gif
Link Posted: 8/23/2005 1:35:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/24/2005 7:49:06 PM EDT
Winchester 1300 IS THE ONLY shotgun to eat Aquila "mini-shells" readily.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 5:14:27 AM EDT
To answer some questions asked so far:

It will NOT be used for home defense. I have an AR15 and a 1911 pretty much dedicated to that.

This'll be mostly for squirrel and rabbit hunting. Since we can use rifles in this state for deer, if I ever get around to going deer hunting, I'll use a rifle for it. Thus availablity and ease of changing barrels is a non-issue. I don't see it being used for slugs.

The 870 I had previously was plenty reliable with anything I cared to feed it. Its good to hear the 1300 is tolerant of various ammo as well. The ability to shoot the little mini-shells in neat, but since no one around here carries them, and I hate having to deal with mail-order stuff, its not really much of a selling point.

I don't care too much about weight, since the areas I hunt are fairly flat (no real hills to hump a rifle around in) and other than the shotgun and a handful of extra shells, the only thing I'm carrying is a camelback of water. Squirrels and rabbits don't weight that much, especially when in zip-lock baggies inside the camelback pack. So as long as its not a 14lb rifle, the weight won't really bother me.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 7:07:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 7:10:40 AM EDT by PBIR]

Originally Posted By mike103:
Fron ATF's web site:

Shotguns produced 2003:

Remington 300,399
Mossberg 178,931
Mavrick 61,084
Winchester 42,650

The people have voted with their money.
MIKE.



Ford Tauruses outsell BMW 325s too. High sales are not always indicative of quality in terms of "what is the best" - which in this thread's topic is highly subjective anyway. Further, is that all models from each manufacturer or just the 870, 1300, 500, etc quoted above?
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:11:15 AM EDT
Another thing I like about the 1300 is the recoil assisted pump. You can shoot one pretty damn fast and I think it is less prone to short-stroke.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:23:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By mike103:
Fron ATF's web site:

Shotguns produced 2003:

Remington 300,399
Mossberg 178,931
Mavrick 61,084
Winchester 42,650

The people have voted with their money.
MIKE.



Ford Tauruses outsell BMW 325s too. High sales are not always indicative of quality in terms of "what is the best" - which in this thread's topic is highly subjective anyway. Further, is that all models from each manufacturer or just the 870, 1300, 500, etc quoted above?



Very good question.

Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:25:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chewbacca:
Another thing I like about the 1300 is the recoil assisted pump. You can shoot one pretty damn fast and I think it is less prone to short-stroke.



+1

I don't hate 870's, I just like 1300's a little better.
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 8:54:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By georgestrings:

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By georgestrings:
870 - hands down a better shotgun....


- georgestrings



Not at all true.





Well, better than 66% polled on this thread think so - and the market has indicated that gun owners overwhelmingly pick the 870 - the 870 has probably outsold the 1300 by atleast a 3 to 1 margin....



- georgestrings



Sorry George, I don't think your logic holds up. Daewoo sells more cars in a week than Ferrari has ever built! By your logic a Daewoo (admittedly a nice little car) is better than a Ferrari? People buy things for many reasons, not all of them logical or even intelligent. Remingtons out number Winchester shotguns by roughly 15 to 1, but that has more to do with marketing, overall company strength, and decisions made many years ago by both the companies and LE agencies. I can find little difference ini the quality and function of the two in question and call it a draw.

CaCrusin

www.knoxx.com
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 9:52:20 AM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 10:12:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By chewbacca:
Another thing I like about the 1300 is the recoil assisted pump. You can shoot one pretty damn fast and I think it is less prone to short-stroke.



The next issue of Gun Test is reviewing shotguns. They are comparing the Mossberg 500, the Winchester 1300, and the Remington 870. All guns passed the test, but the crew liked the 1300 better. They said it cycled a little smoother and faster than the other two.

My dad is a frugal shopper. He will look at something for months, or even years, compare, handle, research, and price shop before he makes a purchase. After years of this, he has a Winchester 120 (1300's predecessor) 12gauge 28" modifed choke, a Winchester 1300 Black Shadow Deer 12gauge 22" rifled barrel, and a Winchester 1300 Practical Defender 22" w/screw in chokes & rifle sights. He looked at a lot of different Remingtons, but couldn't find anything to justify the additional cost over the price of the Winchesters.

The news buzz is about global or domestic terrorism. Out here we have rural terrorism- poachers, trespassers, crop damagers, livestock threats. My dad has many confirmed kills with the 28" Winchester. Rogue ferral dogs get in with his cattle and cause problems. One round from that shotgun stops the problem. The funniest one- it wandered into the front yard so he pulled off to just "burn it". He didn't want to create a ruccuss, nosey neighbors... It was a 35 - 40 yard shot, but the dog laid down instantly without a whimper.

The best one was a deer that was tearing up crops. Here in TN wildlife can be neutralized if it is messing with crops or causing property damage. My dad had tried everything to get the deer to leave the stuff alone, but they just wouldn't. Again using the 28" barrelled, fixed modified choke Winchester, he dealt with the situation. It was a good 60 - 75 yards and the gun was loaded with Winchester Reduced Recoil 00Buck. One shot, the deer dropped, kicked 2 or 3 times, end of story. My dad and I never thought such a thing was possible, let alone conceivable, but it happened.

Could that have been done with a similar Remington? Maybe, possibly, probably. But my dad doesn't have any Remingtons; he couldn't find any that didn't have an unjustly inflated price.

The Black Shadow and the Defender don't have any confirmed kills yet, but tomorrow is another day . The Black Shadow is extremely accurate with the standard rifled slugs that Walmart sells in a "bulk pack". The Defender rides in the gun carrier on his ATV when he's doing farm-type chores and property patrols so I'm sure it will neutralize some nuisance soon.

My dad and I have always kept an eye out for good shotguns for many years. There are always used Remingtons in conditions varrying from good to poor for $350 - $500. He recently got the Practical Defender recently (used, slightly) for about $265. Paying an extra $150 or more for the Remingtons would have done absolutely nothing beneficial.

I guess it just boils down to preference. I've got Mossbergs, a Remington, Winchesters, and NEF's. I use the Winchesters and NEF's.

Chevy vs. Ford
Republican vs. Democrat
Coke vs. Pepsi
blue collar vs. white collar
Patriot Act vs. The Bill of Rights

How much money ya' got? If you have enough to afford either, then dig through your pocket change and find a quarter. Flip it; heads or tails you have a shotgun that will shoot as good or better than you do.

2guntom
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 10:57:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 11:16:38 AM EDT by 2guntom]

Originally Posted By mike103:

If this shotgun is to used for small game then the answer is clear. I recommend a .410 bore or 28 gauge. There is nothing like a small bore for hunting. Much more fun. Since the 1300 is not offered in .410 or 28 then I guess you will just have to buy the Remington. MIKE.

PS: I have the 870 Express in both! MIKE.



The thread starter said " Either way it'll be in 12gauge (cheap abundant ammo)... "

.410's ain't cheap; and the 28's aren't abundant and they certainly ain't cheap either.

The poll currently says:
[ 40 ] Winchester 1300
[ 83 ] Remington 870

The people that have actually posted something to the thread:

Winchester - 8
Lollypop_69
brentwal
PBIR
BSheppard
LArifl­eMAN
2guntom
chewbacca
Shooterer
­
Remington - 6
Mall-Ninja
mike103
HIREFORFIRE
DBerk
ikorgeorgestrings

There were some that said either or draw.

So how many pages are we going for? 3? 4?

2guntom
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 11:03:28 AM EDT
1300, all black (just like mine)
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 11:41:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2005 11:43:29 AM EDT by mike103]
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 11:52:13 AM EDT
Well Mike, that 870 I was talking about is fitted with a Tasco Pro Point and I can shoot skeet pretty good with. Maybe not as good as just a bead, but pretty consistenly. The red-dot is nice for 60 yard slug shots! I was shooting a Bennelli (sp?) M1 Tactical which has the ghost ring and thought that was great for shooting skeet. Both the red dot and the ghost, as soon as skeet entered circle>pull trigger>dead skeet.

YMMV
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 12:03:26 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/25/2005 4:12:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
Hey if you are shooting and it works then great. I just worry that many buy stuff and don't shoot. MIKE.

PS: Are we talking real skeet or hand thrown? MIKE.



I here ya on the not shooting part. But yes it is hand thrown. But a thrower duct-taped to a hockey stick can fling the pigeons real far real fast!
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 5:26:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mike103:
If this shotgun is to used for small game then the answer is clear. I recommend a .410 bore or 28 gauge. There is nothing like a small bore for hunting. Much more fun. Since the 1300 is not offered in .410 or 28 then I guess you will just have to buy the Remington. MIKE.

PS: I have the 870 Express in both! MIKE.



Thanks, but as I said in the first post, it will be 12 gauge because of the cheap and abundent ammo. Around here you can barely find anything in .410 (and what you can find sure as hell isn't cheap). 28 is slightly easier to find, but not by much, and still not cheap.

Yes, smallbore would be more "fun". Then again, I'm currently using a .22 so "fun" isn't what I'm after here.
Link Posted: 8/26/2005 9:16:08 AM EDT
Both are good shotguns - I would look for an older Wingmaster 870 and build it up or buy a defender and add you personal mods. Shotgun shells in Wyoming Super Walmart in Evanston are $3.09 a box when bought in the 100 pack. Rollback deal - in light of fuel prices - At 15 cents a pop they are a very good deal.
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