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Posted: 11/17/2003 6:57:04 PM EDT
Hey everyone, I am very new to shotguns, and I am looking to purchase a shotgun for home defense. I have fired many shotguns before, but have not decided to purchase one until now.

I am down at school now, but I remember a shotgun at my local gunstore that I really liked. It was a remington 870 all black, 18 inch barrel, and factory pistol grip stock.

I would like to purchase one online, but was wondering if someone a bit more knowledgeable about the shotguns could help me pick out the right model/sights and necessary accessories for home defense.

I do NOT remember what sights were on the shotgun I saw. But ideally, I would like to have 18 inch barrel, pistol grip stock, extended magazine tube (not sure what comes with them), surefire foregrip (thats an easy one to find), and if possible, ghost ring sights.

Is this setup available from the factory (minus surefire forend) and if so, what would be a good online source to find one?

Thank you very very much for helping out a shotgun newb...

Link Posted: 11/17/2003 7:04:36 PM EDT
Also, another thing to consider, I most likely will not be shooting slugs. I am not sure what type of barrel to look for...nor am I sure what they offer in the setup I mentioned above. Would getting a rifled barrel that can shoot slugs and buckshot be something better to get as opposed to a standard barrel?

Ugh, im sorry guys. I feel like a moron, and the shotgun section of the forum really isnt developed enough for me to research on my own...
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 1:15:45 PM EDT
Just get rem 870 H.D model for (home defense)synthetic stocks 18 1/4 inch barrel and buy a pistol grip for it you will be good to go!!!
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 5:20:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/20/2003 5:24:14 PM EDT by faris]
A lot of this depends on how much you want to spend, and what you really want.
The top of the line IS the Remington 870, in either an Express, or if you have the loot, a Police model.

For a look at what's commonly available in 870 defense guns, take a look at Remington's Law Enforcement site:

This will give you an idea of what you might like in sights and accessories.

Most of these accessories can be added later, often with little or no gunsmithing.

You can buy a police model by finding a dealer that buys from a Remington Law Enforcement wholesaler. Not all Remington wholesalers are LE sellers, so you may have to look around.

As to the pistol grip-only stock:
MOST people who try one quickly go back to a regular stock.
The pistol grip stock is a "Hollywood" thing that just doesn't work in the "real world".

The pistol grip is usually used only for specific special purposes like SWAT team door hinge blower, or body guard car gun.

In real shooting, the gun recoils badly, and is difficult to aim.
A simple, realistic shooting test will show you that a shotgun MUST be aimed with some precision, since you really can MISS.
They aren't like the Hollywood scenes where the gun blows an entire store window out, and still knocks the bad guy backward 10 feet.

The pistol grip shotgun is difficult to use, and offers no real advantage to most shooters.

I'd try a pistol grip equipped gun, then a stocked gun. If you're like most shooters, you'll put a standard stock on.

As to barrels:
Rifled barrels are only good for slugs. You're best bet is a standard cylinder or improved cylinder bore barrel. These are the most common and popular defense gun barrels.

With one of these, you can shoot any size birdshot, buckshot, or slug.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 6:15:54 PM EDT
I use and highly reccomend the Knoxx Copstock. It is a pistol grip with a wire over-folding stock. It is just as compact as a regular pistol grip shotgun and the Knoxx recoil-reducing mechanism cuts recoil by more than half. I use my Copstock-equiped 870 as my primary car gun and as a back up to my 16" AR for home defense. I like the compactness of the pistol grip gun, and with such a light recoiling weapon it can be fired from high on the chest/shoulder area instead of having to fire from the hip like most PG shotguns. The wire stock is very unobtrusive and can be instantly deployed if needed for longer or more precise shots.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 6:44:24 PM EDT
I bought an old 870 Wingmaster off a board member this summer. I wanted a wingmaster b/c like the police model the receiver is forged not cast like the Express. I built it up a lot like you said for under 500 bucks myself. I needed a project and it fit the bill. I don't have a surefire forend yet nor do I have a rear ghost ring. (I have the ghost ring front post though.) It's not hard to do.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 7:30:21 PM EDT
"the police model the receiver is forged not cast like the Express."

Actually the receivers for the Express, Wingmaster, and Police models all come out of the same forge at Remington.

All Remington shotguns have forged and milled receivers, none are made from castings.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 8:30:05 PM EDT
Wrong. Express Remingtons are cast. The receivers are.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 8:57:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By THellURider:
Wrong. Express Remingtons are cast. The receivers are.

I'd always understood that difference between the three was only in the finish. An understanding that was backed up by the retrospective I read a short time ago. Now, magazine articles aren't always the most accurate sources of information, so perhaps I'm wrong.

Do you have a source? Remingtons web site doesn't go into that kind of detail, and I didn't see anything in the manual.

Back on topic, a full stock with a pistol grip is the way to go. Something like the speedfeed IV. The copstock looks interesting, but I haven't any experience with it.
Link Posted: 11/20/2003 9:15:22 PM EDT
I don't have a quote unquote source. But you can see it on them. I can however give you links to some of my threads before I built my shotgun.

Sorry the search function seems to be down. But it was in th eshotgun foorum about 5 months ago. Look for my name.

Link Posted: 11/21/2003 10:38:48 AM EDT

Not according to relatives of mine who WORK for Remington.

I asked this question of them early this year because of rumors about cast receivers.

They say ALL Remington shotgun receivers are made from forgings from the same forge process.

They say if there's any doubt, e-mail Remington, and they'll tell you the straight of it.

These people are production and raw materials people, not executives, so:
A. They know what's being used.
B. They have no axes to grind.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 12:18:55 PM EDT
If thats true thats great. Then grab an Express.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 3:44:40 PM EDT
I'd get a full stocked version until you deciede what you really want... Pistol grips look cool, but are next to useless tacticly.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 5:44:14 PM EDT
Another diffrence between the Express/police/wingmaster is the dimples in the Express' magazine tube, but they can be removed easily enough.

Link Posted: 11/22/2003 9:51:21 AM EDT
One stop shopping
IF you have the cash, this is the way to go.
Link Posted: 11/22/2003 11:01:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/22/2003 12:23:17 PM EDT by Sammich]
Make it look like an AR...well stock and grip anyway



Link Posted: 11/22/2003 1:52:23 PM EDT
The Police and Wingmaster models have a forged extractor as opposed to the Expresses MIM extractor. Police and Wingmaster models also go through several dozen final fitting and finishing steps the Express line doesnt get. The Police model also has heavier duty, higher poundage springs.

The ONE thing that completely turns me off about the Express line is the bore. Compare the bore of an 18" Express HD model to ANY other 870 in the line. It has NO final polish to it. It looks like it was dug by a gopher instead of having the polished bore of the other 870s. Whats this mean? More inconsistant patterns and more work during cleaning, and possibly reliability concerns with heavy fouling.
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 2:50:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/10/2003 2:51:49 PM EDT by burbanite]

Originally Posted By Sammich:
Make it look like an AR...well stock and grip anyway





I'm interested in seeing pictures from those of you who received your adapters recently, how are they working out for you? Mine is still in the works, (well, the full length rail is), hopefully I'll have it soon and be able to complete the build on my 870.
Link Posted: 12/11/2003 1:27:08 PM EDT
From vangcomp.com

"What is the difference between a Remington Express and a Police Magnum?"

The Remington Police Magnum shotgun is built heavier to withstand the
abuse and pounding that police departments inflict on their gear. It has a
metal trigger assembly versus the Express's plastic assembly. The Police
Magnum also has heavier springs (7 lb. sear disconnect spring versus's the
Express's 5 lb. disconnect spring). The Police Magnum has a 22 inch
magazine spring versus a 16 inch magazine spring in the Express.
The Police gun comes with a heavier lifter spring. Each Police Magnum
comes with front and rear sling swivel studs. These are just some of the
differences in the two guns. Remember, you get exactly what you pay for.
Both models function the same and digest the same ammo, so if you are
inclined to inflict this type of punishment on your guns then consider a
Police Magnum. Otherwise the Express model will serve you very well.

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