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Posted: 7/6/2012 12:33:20 PM EST
I have a Techno Mag 7 shotgun. It is a 12 gauge pump shotgun uses shells that are only 2" long. I wanted to see if anyone knows how to reload shells that will fit this gun.

Is it as simple as figuring out the proper load and then cutting the hulls down so that the loaded shell is 2" long?
Can I use a LEE Load-All to load for this gun?

Here is a link to the Wiki entry for this gun.

Thank you for any assistance you can provide.
jonblack
Link Posted: 7/6/2012 7:36:48 PM EST
[#1]
Link Posted: 7/7/2012 5:38:46 AM EST
[#2]
Thanks for the link dryflash. I have not looked at that site.

I know Centurion makes a 2" shell that works OK with this gun, not 100%. Aquila minishells only work single shot. Techno (the maker of the gun) made their own 2" shells but they are now at collectible status.

I know very little about loading shotshells. What I do know I learned from Assaultrifler's thread on loading the 12 gauge shotshell.

jonblack
Link Posted: 7/7/2012 6:45:14 AM EST
[#3]
Found this over on the GlockTalk forum.

GLShooter
07-20-2009, 16:50
I've never tried the factory mini's but I do load my own 2" 12 gauge with a one ounce load of shot. They run 100% in my wifes 1100 and in my Benelli Super 90. I use components that I got at Ballistic Products. Cut down AA hulls and load on a modified MEC 650. I have done regular star crimps and roll crimps with spreaders and they do well on steel targets in the matches I shoot.

Greg L.

Looks like I am being pointed in the right direction.

jonblack
Link Posted: 7/7/2012 3:37:13 PM EST
[#4]
Get an old Lee Loader and modify?  Depends on how many you want to load I guess. I also saw a slick tool for doing a roll crimp that chucks into a drill.

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile
Link Posted: 7/7/2012 4:04:01 PM EST
[#5]
+1 For modding a cheap Lee load-all.
Link Posted: 7/7/2012 4:35:27 PM EST
[#6]
I don't understand enough about how shotshell loaders work, so, if I were to mod a reloading press, what mods would be be making?

Thank you
jonblack
Link Posted: 7/7/2012 5:04:01 PM EST
[#7]
Most likely you would have to remove the star crimp die and add a spacer (maybe 3/4") so that it can crimp the 2" shells.
Link Posted: 7/7/2012 8:44:05 PM EST
[#8]
I'd try to find reloading data for it first, then components, which the reloading data will tell you.



Wouldn't be surprised if you did find some reloading data it'd involve clipping the petals or the legs off a 2 3/4" standard wad or something.



MECs can be converted form 2 3/4" to 3" never heard of converting them  to 2", the starting crimp, closing crimp, and finishing taper crimps would all have to be made 3/4" shorter.   Special crimping dies would be ideal to do this if anyone made them.



A MEC grabber should have no problem: depriming, reszing the brass head, seating new primer, dropping powder, seating a wad, even dropping bird sized shot.  The crimping will be problematic.



Otherwise you may have to load them single stage with a rifle like die.  RCBS makes a shotshell reloading die, question is how much can you adjust it downward before it runs out of threads?



Found this thread on shotgunworld discussing the MAG-7



http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=184156&start=40



Another thread on the 'net on reloading these 2" shells



http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-178253.html


 
Link Posted: 7/8/2012 3:24:54 PM EST
[#9]
AssaultRifler

Thanks for showing up and lending your assistance!

I have seen the ShotgunWorld link but I have not seen the link from TheHighRoad. The last post on TheHighRoad thread has the guy telling about his success loading these shells, so thank you very much for posting those links.

Here is what the guy had to say:
RecoilRob - February 19, 2006, 01:43 AM

I resized/deprimed/primed on my trusty old Lee LoadAll II. Trimmed with a Ballistics Products 'Trim Doctor' to 2 1/16". Loaded with 20 grains of Unique under a Remington RP12 wad trimmed .200. 400 grains of #7 1/2 shot (between 7/8 and one ounce) with a BP .030 overshot card and the final roll crimp also by a BP roll crimping tool.

The name Ballistic Products keeps popping up (thanks dryflash) so I think I will give them a call and see if they can give me some much needed advice.

If I do make any progress I will keep you all posted.

Thanks again
jonblack
Link Posted: 7/8/2012 5:26:39 PM EST
[#10]

Did some more thinking and brainstormed a few options.  Brainstorm is the key word here, haven't actually tried this.  I don't have a RCBS Mini Grand nor a drill press
Option A - fabricate some sort of extended shell holder to be used for crimping
A non progressive press might be better for crimping or a progressive press like the MEC if you remove the shell plate.  You'd need some sort of 3/4" stand for the shell to sit on, sort of like extended shell holders RCBS and other companies make.
Something like this  http://www.midwayusa.com/product/179534/rcbs-extended-shellholder-10-17-remington-204-ruger-223-remington
It'd have to have a hole in it so nothing touches the primer and thus risking a kaboom.
Option B - use starter, crimping, taper crimping dies meant for a reloading press in a drill press
Alternatively, you mount the various crimp dies to a drill press where you can control the amount of downward travel the crimp dies would move.
In the links above they mention roll crimp, I never used roll crimps but one like this would look like it'd lock into a drill press much like any standard drill bit and do the job http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Original-Roll-Crimping-Tool-12ga/productinfo/ROLL12/


For 6 or 8 point crimps a crimp starter would fit easily enough in a drill press, one like this http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Super-Crown-Crimper-Large-Bore-6-Pt/productinfo/0740006/
You could probably use the RCBS Mini Grand crimping die in a drill press as well.
This looks like it'll work for the final taper crimp http://www.midwayusa.com/product/845427/rcbs-the-mini-grand-shotshell-press-taper-crimp-die-12-gauge
If using a drill press, make a jig to hold the shotshell securely while crimping.  Just take a piece of wood, drill a hole in it but not all the way to the bottom, then drill a smaller deeper hole where the primer would be as to not have anything pressing on the primer!  You could just use C Clamps to secure the jig to the base of the drill press.  Wear eye protection in case the primer goes off anyways
Option C - use a machine that looks like it's easy to adjust the crimping dies for
Just an example, look at the RCBS Mini Grand http://www.rcbs.com/downloads/instructions/Mini_Grand_Instruction_Manual.pdf
Go to step 5, 6, and 7.  Look at the crimp dies, they all have threaded rods in them just like a pistol and rifle sizing dies.
Replace the threaded rod with one that's 3/4" longer and you might be able to use the crimping dies on that machine 3/4" lower than standard.
Regardless of whatever method you use, try it with spent primers and no powder until you get the kinks out of it



ETA: Option D: check into the RCBS shotshell loading die mentioned above
 





 
Link Posted: 7/8/2012 6:02:32 PM EST
[#11]
Wow!

It's going to take me some time to read, absorb, and process your post. I will comment on it when I have done so.

Thank you very much
jonblack
Link Posted: 7/9/2012 2:14:08 AM EST
[#12]

Quoted:





Wow!
It's going to take me some time to read, absorb, and process your post. I will comment on it when I have done so.
Thank you very much




jonblack





To help you clarify:
roll crimp is a 1 step process, just use a roll crimp die and use a roll crimp, unless it's a slug, you'll need a cardboard circle to keep the pellets in place
6 or 8 pt crimps involves 3 distinct steps and thus 3 distinct crimping dies per the shotshell tutorial




- starter crimp




- (closing) crimp




- taper crimp (some say it's optional, I disagree)
The problem being addressed is to get all the crimp dies to be used to press down 3/4" further than they're designed to be used
When crimping:



- the shell needs to be stabilized



- NOTHING can touch the primer, so whatever support system you use it needs to support the base of the shell without touching the primer, thus rigging up a jig of some sort would be necessary



I suggest learning to load normal 12 gauge shells before messing with 2" shells
 
Link Posted: 7/9/2012 5:07:39 AM EST
[#13]
Quoted:
I suggest learning to load normal 12 gauge shells before messing with 2" shells
 


That is probably the best advice in the thread.

jonblack
Link Posted: 7/9/2012 5:26:37 AM EST
[#14]
I wanted to post some images of the shells that were originally marketed for the Techno Mag-7.

These images were posted by and are properly of: Shotptrdj over at ShotgunWorld







jonblack


Link Posted: 7/9/2012 9:02:58 AM EST
[#15]
I've only recently started reloading shotshells, so I'm no expert.  However, I have discovered that it's not rocket science.  Two inch shells should be relatively easy to make by simply cutting down 2.75" hulls and applying a roll crimp.

Roll Crimper

As to data, start with light loads and work up.

Again, your mileage may vary.

You might find this interesting as well.  I just found it surfing around.
Link Posted: 7/9/2012 6:12:00 PM EST
[#16]
Quoted:
You might find this interesting as well.  I just found it surfing around.


Thanks for the link. I think Ballistic Products will have just about everything I need to tackle this project.

jonblack

Link Posted: 7/9/2012 6:29:57 PM EST
[#17]
I'm thinking the easiest route to go would be with any shotshell press to do the:



resizing

depriming

priming

drop powder

seat wad



Then roll crimp with the RCBS Cowboy die with a shell holder extension. Here's two extensions I found:



http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/presses/409090



For use when trimming short cases in a file trim die. With our universal
Shell Holder Extension there is no need to buy an assortment of
extended shell holders, one tool extends your standard shell holder 3/4.




http://www.hornady.com/store/Universal-Shellholder-Extension/



This looks like it might be too long



The first one is 3/4" extension which is perfect.  The RCBS Shotshell die comes with a shell holder for 12 gauge, use the shellholder with the 3/4" extension and you should be able to roll crimp with no problem.



I'm adding the RCBS shotshell die to my wishlist, seems like a cool gadget


 
Link Posted: 7/10/2012 3:00:01 AM EST
[#18]
AssaultRifler

When you said "RCBS" did you mean "CH4D?"

The CH4D link looks like a cool tool to have. Plus Dave at CH4D is a cool guy. He has helped me in the past with a trim die for .300 Whisper.

I hope to add some photos of some shotgun hulls that I have. I think I have some AA hulls but they may be the new style. Maybe they are still good. I will get some feedback on them from you guys. Of course, I could always buy some new ones for this project.

So, I know the LEE Load All II is not great but do you think it will be OK for this reloading experiment? I don't really have a budget for this, and I will try to keep my wife happy but not buying more and more stuff that I don't need, especially until I know what I am doing.

So far it looks like I need the following tools:

LEE Load All II - $47.99
Ballistic Products Roll Crimping Tool $27.99
Trim Doctor shotshell case tool - $29.95
Possibly a hull vise - $46.99
Loading block - don't know which one
Load manual - don't know which one

Hulls - ?
209 primers
I have Unique on hand
shot cards - ?
wads - ?
shot - ?

Looks like I need to spend at least $200 to get started.

I have cast some LEE 1 oz slugs in the past. Do you think those are something that a new shotshell loader could use to learn to load shotshells?

Thank you
jonblack
Link Posted: 7/10/2012 4:02:42 AM EST
[#19]





Quoted:



AssaultRifler





When you said "RCBS" did you mean "CH4D?"





The CH4D link looks like a cool tool to have. Plus Dave at CH4D is a cool guy. He has helped me in the past with a trim die for .300 Whisper.





I was tossing out as one of the options to use the CH4D shell holder extension with the RCBS Cowboy shotshell die to do the roll crimp in  a single stage press
So, I know the LEE Load All II is not great but do you think it will be OK for this reloading experiment? I don't really have a budget for this, and I will try to keep my wife happy but not buying more and more stuff that I don't need, especially until I know what I am doing.





So far it looks like I need the following tools:





LEE Load All II - $47.99


Ballistic Products Roll Crimping Tool $27.99


Trim Doctor shotshell case tool - $29.95


Possibly a hull vise - $46.99


Loading block - don't know which one


Load manual - don't know which one





Look like the Roll Crimping Tool is designed to be used in a drill and would be perfect for use in a drill press.  You could probably save $ by not buying the hull vise and just drilling a large hole in a block of wood almost all of the way down and then a smaller hole the rest of the way (to prevent anything from touching the primer).  You can then clamp the board on the drill press, steady the hull with your left hand and operate the lever on your drill press with the right.


The jig will make sure you have the shell centered each time.





Hulls - ?


209 primers


I have Unique on hand


shot cards - ?


wads - ?


shot - ?





Components depend on your load data.  Looks like You'll want to do  a roll crimp because of limitations of the tools to do a 6 or 8 point crimp.





Looks like I need to spend at least $200 to get started.





I have cast some LEE 1 oz slugs in the past. Do you think those are something that a new shotshell loader could use to learn to load shotshells?





Yes, but I never loaded slugs my self, if you find accurate easy to understand instructions on how to load them  you should be OK, but again for 2" shells you need specific load data.  I advice loading 2 3/4" slugs before you do anything with the 2" ones





Thank you


jonblack



 
Link Posted: 7/10/2012 5:26:36 AM EST
[#20]
I would save the $30 for the case trim doctor and use a piece of 3/4" pvc cut to length and a razor utility knife.  That's what I use to trim my hulls.

YMMV

Link Posted: 7/11/2012 1:33:26 PM EST
[#21]
Quoted:
I would save the $30 for the case trim doctor and use a piece of 3/4" pvc cut to length and a razor utility knife.  That's what I use to trim my hulls.

YMMV


Do you just "stab" the hull and then rotate the PVC/hull to make the cut? I'm guessing the cuts come out pretty clean or you wouldn't recommend it.

I'll definitely consider your idea. I think homemade tools and jigs are great, but I think $30 is a pretty good price for the tool. However, I am second guessing spending $48 on the holding device.

jonblack
Link Posted: 7/12/2012 4:03:42 AM EST
[#22]


I use a razor knife with this blade.

It works pretty well.

I'm cheap, though.

Just make sure you have a good cut on your PVC so the cut comes out 90* and not at an angle.

ETA sorry for the huge pic.

Link Posted: 7/12/2012 4:56:59 AM EST
[#23]
I googled shotshell trimmer and found this one, looks home made, but meant for dismantling not trimming to a specific length, but still pretty cool.  If you're handy  you could probably make one, I'm not handy



http://www.hotshotgunlube.com/hotshot_shell_cutter.htm


 
Link Posted: 7/12/2012 5:07:39 AM EST
[#24]
That's a pretty cool home-made type trimmer. Gives me some good ideas. Thanks for the link.

jonblack
Link Posted: 7/12/2012 10:56:08 AM EST
[#25]
Link Posted: 7/12/2012 1:23:15 PM EST
[#26]



Quoted:





Quoted:

I googled shotshell trimmer and found this one, looks home made, but meant for dismantling not trimming to a specific length, but still pretty cool. If you're handy you could probably make one, I'm not handy



http://www.hotshotgunlube.com/hotshot_shell_cutter.htm



Nice link, thanks.



I predict there's a homemade shotshell trimmer in your future to go along with all the loading blocks and primer tube stands



 
Link Posted: 7/12/2012 6:13:39 PM EST
[#27]
Link Posted: 7/12/2012 6:28:40 PM EST
[#28]



Quoted:






Guilty.  


Busted!



To getcha thinking a bit, dismantlers and trimmers will be different in that a dismantler works by just cutting the plastic hull skin deep by rotating it, the innards of the non empty shell give it support.



A trimmer for an empty hull won't have internal support, so the blade will deform the empty hull a bit before it cuts.



Maybe use a wooden dowel to support the an empty hull from the inside to simulate a loaded shell if using the rotation and cut method.
 
Link Posted: 7/12/2012 6:30:45 PM EST
[#29]
Link Posted: 7/13/2012 5:26:01 AM EST
[#30]
Quoted:
How many can you cram in it at once ?


Hey great to see you over in this forum!

The magazine holds 5 and one in the chamber.

jonblack

PS - can't wait to your stripped lowers are available again! I sold my POF to finance a Larue only to discover they aren't being sold right now...

Link Posted: 7/14/2012 4:51:23 AM EST
[#31]
Load data for 2" shells can be found here

http://data.hodgdon.com/shotshell_load.asp
Link Posted: 7/14/2012 6:26:35 AM EST
[#32]
Link Posted: 7/19/2012 4:43:34 AM EST
[#33]
Quoted:
Load data for 2" shells can be found here

http://data.hodgdon.com/shotshell_load.asp


Thank you very much for that link!

jonblack
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