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Posted: 11/26/2014 4:33:55 PM EDT
I posted this question in another thread, but I felt that it needed to be asked in a thread of it's own...

Say you submitted a Form 1, paid the $200 tax, RECEIVED your stamp, and 1, 2, 3 years later, you decide that you don't want to build your SBR'd registered lower.

It has been mentioned in other threads (can't specifically cite) that if the SBR was never built, you can get a refund on the $200 tax that you paid.

The question is...how long do you have to declare with the NFA that you have decided to not go forward with "making" your SBR; return the Form 1 with the stamp on it, and request a refund on your $200 tax? Indefinite amount of time?
Link Posted: 11/26/2014 4:38:52 PM EDT
Once your Form 1 is approved it becomes an SBR, not when it's mated with an upper.
Link Posted: 11/26/2014 4:41:54 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:
Once your Form 1 is approved it becomes an SBR, not when it's mated with an upper.
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But what happens if you decide you want to pull it off of the registry? You just lose out the $200?
Link Posted: 11/26/2014 4:49:29 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By ControlledChaos999:

But what happens if you decide you want to pull it off of the registry? You just lose out the $200?
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Originally Posted By ControlledChaos999:
Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:
Once your Form 1 is approved it becomes an SBR, not when it's mated with an upper.

But what happens if you decide you want to pull it off of the registry? You just lose out the $200?

It's not an SBR unless it's configured as one. You can get your $200 back even after approval if you state you never assembled the firearm into an SBR. Says so right on the F1:

4. Withdrawal of Application. The application may be withdrawn prior to approval by submission of a written request from the maker. The NFA Branch will arrange for a refund of any tax paid.

5. Cancellation of Approved Application. An approved application may be cancelled only if the firearms had not been made or modified. The maker must return the approved application with a written request for cancellation, citing the need and that the making of the firearm did not take place. The NFA Branch will arrange for a refund of any tax paid.


However, once you've made it into the SBR, your $200 is gone. Asking for it to be removed from the registry does nothing to help you out. You can sell that lower just like any other. You can put a 16" upper on it an sell it as a normal AR. You can't transfer it to another serial number or get your money back at that point.
Link Posted: 11/26/2014 4:59:49 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:

It's not an SBR unless it's configured as one. You can get your $200 back even after approval if you state you never assembled the firearm into an SBR. Says so right on the F1:

4. Withdrawal of Application. The application may be withdrawn prior to approval by submission of a written request from the maker. The NFA Branch will arrange for a refund of any tax paid.

5. Cancellation of Approved Application. An approved application may be cancelled only if the firearms had not been made or modified. The maker must return the approved application with a written request for cancellation, citing the need and that the making of the firearm did not take place. The NFA Branch will arrange for a refund of any tax paid.


However, once you've made it into the SBR, your $200 is gone. Asking for it to be removed from the registry does nothing to help you out. You can sell that lower just like any other. You can put a 16" upper on it an sell it as a normal AR. You can't transfer it to another serial number or get your money back at that point.
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Originally Posted By BigWaylon:
Originally Posted By ControlledChaos999:
Originally Posted By SirSqueeboo:
Once your Form 1 is approved it becomes an SBR, not when it's mated with an upper.

But what happens if you decide you want to pull it off of the registry? You just lose out the $200?

It's not an SBR unless it's configured as one. You can get your $200 back even after approval if you state you never assembled the firearm into an SBR. Says so right on the F1:

4. Withdrawal of Application. The application may be withdrawn prior to approval by submission of a written request from the maker. The NFA Branch will arrange for a refund of any tax paid.

5. Cancellation of Approved Application. An approved application may be cancelled only if the firearms had not been made or modified. The maker must return the approved application with a written request for cancellation, citing the need and that the making of the firearm did not take place. The NFA Branch will arrange for a refund of any tax paid.


However, once you've made it into the SBR, your $200 is gone. Asking for it to be removed from the registry does nothing to help you out. You can sell that lower just like any other. You can put a 16" upper on it an sell it as a normal AR. You can't transfer it to another serial number or get your money back at that point.


I should've thought to read that on the Form 1 contents at the end...

Question though still...is there any specific time frame from which you have to change your mind, ask for a refund, and remove it from the registry to sell it as a normal lower?


Link Posted: 11/26/2014 5:20:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2014 5:22:33 PM EDT by BigWaylon]
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Originally Posted By ControlledChaos999:
I should've thought to read that on the Form 1 contents at the end...

Question though still...is there any specific time frame from which you have to change your mind, ask for a refund, and remove it from the registry to sell it as a normal lower?
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It's amazing what people can actually learn from reading the forms the filled out.

I've never seen anything that sets a time limit...not to say there isn't one. There are limits on how old a CLEO signature is for a submission, but not to make the actual firearm.

Obviously the best time would be before you engrave it, but it makes no difference. There's no requirement to remove it from the registry in order to sell it as a "normal" lower. The reality is, it's always a normal lower...it just may have additional engraving. There's no such thing as an "SBR lower". You can put a 16" upper on it at any time and cross state lines without any 5320.20, or sell it to anybody legal to own a long gun, or hunt in areas where SBRs aren't allowed.

The removing from registry does nothing but keep their registry current. It has zero impact on you or the weapon. The recommend you do it, but can't require it.

For examples, here are two Q&A from the ATF SBR/SBS FAQ:

Q: May I transfer the receiver of a short-barrel rifle or shotgun to an FFL or to an individual as I would any GCA firearm?
A: Yes. A weapon that does not meet the definition of a NFA “firearm” is not subject to the NFA and a possessor or transferor needn’t comply with NFA requirements. The firearm is considered a GCA firearm and may be transferred under the provisions of that law.

Q: Who is responsible for notifying the NFA Branch when I transfer the GCA firearm to a FFL or another individual?
A: There is no requirement that the transferor or transferee of a GCA firearm notify the NFA branch of a transfer or that either party determine whether the firearm was previously registered under the NFA. There is no also no requirement for the registrant or possessor of a NFA firearm to notify ATF of the removal of features that caused the firearm to be subject to the NFA; however, ATF recommends the owner notify the NFA Branch in writing if a firearm is permanently removed from the NFA.


I'd recommend you read through those and bookmark it.

Take note of the use of the word recommend as opposed to require...as there are no statutes to require you to notify them of most changes. That doesn't even get I to the discussion of what the definition of "permanent" is in regards to the AR platform.
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 8:23:43 PM EDT
5. Cancellation of Approved Application. An approved application may be cancelled only if the firearms had not been made or modified. The maker must return the approved application with a written request for cancellation, citing the need and that the making of the firearm did not take place. The NFA Branch will arrange for a refund of any tax paid.
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What do they consider a modification?
Link Posted: 11/29/2014 8:53:26 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Pachucko:

What do they consider a modification?
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Originally Posted By Pachucko:
5. Cancellation of Approved Application. An approved application may be cancelled only if the firearms had not been made or modified. The maker must return the approved application with a written request for cancellation, citing the need and that the making of the firearm did not take place. The NFA Branch will arrange for a refund of any tax paid.

What do they consider a modification?

Don't know if that's ever been defined. I would think anything that changes it from a non-NFA item to an NFA item. Not something like swapping a stock or grip, unless that causes the OAL to be less than 26". A swap of an upper/barrel to something under 16" would be a modification. That's how I would look at it, but don't take that as any type of "legal advice" on this matter.
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