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Posted: 11/1/2009 8:02:43 PM EST
How are those Refinished M1 Garands that AIM are selling?

Do you think the refinished Garand is worth the price of $1100?

And, how is the Kreiger Criterion stock in general?

Link Posted: 11/1/2009 8:53:27 PM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 5:18:13 AM EST
There are 2 different kinds of Garands available at AIM...

One is completely refinished with new barrel and new Boyd stock $1095,

and, the other one is the $950 one that is not refinished.

Which one is the better deal?

If the rifle is refinished, does that destroy its collective value?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 5:40:24 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:03:01 AM EST
So, you think the $950 Garand at AIM, thats got all original GI parts will be more valuable?

Interesting, and it makes sense...

Thank you for all the information.

Yea, I'm a 'noob' too when it comes to M1 Garands...

Hope some experts can help us out on how to pick a Garand
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:26:12 AM EST
Originally Posted By HiramRanger:
The only benefit AIM offers is you can have it now instead of waiting for a special grade from CMP. If you are near Port Clinton, OH or Anniston, AL you can pick one up in the store. Rebuild, brand new Kreiger barrel, new stock... awesome rifles for $995. The EE has some nice Garands from Military Gun Supply, but I think they are overpriced... but again, you can have it now... and theirs are $950. No Kreiger barrels, but the barrels have a throat erosion of less than 2 and a muzzle erosion around .5 and have nice cartouched military stocks.


There aren't any special grades or service grades available at the North Store FYI...
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 6:29:21 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:38:16 AM EST
Does any one know if the refinished M1 Garand from AIM is the same as the one refinished 'Special Grade' Garand from CMP?

Does anyone know if any of those are matching serial numbers?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:46:37 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 7:59:52 AM EST by ma96782]
If you arrive LATE at the party...............

What do you expect?

Aloha, Mark

PS............IMHO, the Service Grade - SA rifles are a good deal, for a "shooting rifle"...............

http://www.thecmp.org/m1garand.htm

IMHO...........why bother with AIM.

You want the "CMP special grade".............go for it.





Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:49:18 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 7:56:23 AM EST by ma96782]
Originally Posted By kiddsf:
Does any one know if the refinished M1 Garand from AIM is the same as the one refinished 'Special Grade' Garand from CMP?

Does anyone know if any of those are matching serial numbers?


Matching ser #????

Dude.............you need to do more research on the subject of Garands before you put your money down.

Aloha, Mark

PS..............quote from the CMP web site..............

Over the past 65 years, most M1 rifles have been arsenal rebuilt, refinished, rebarreled or repaired at least once and often several times. Most will show signs of service (often considerable) and replacement of various parts. They are seldom encountered with all original parts and original finish as delivered from the manufacturer. Such "original" rifles, even in well-used condition, are highly prized by collectors.

Each M1 Garand rifle sold by CMP is an authentic U.S. Government rifle that has been inspected, headspaced, repaired if necessary and test fired for function. Each rifle is shipped with safety manual, one eight-round clip and chamber safety flag. Orders are filled on a first-come first serve basis. Rifles of all grades are packed for shipment purely by "luck of the draw". Prices are subject to change. If price has changed after an order has been received, customers will be notified before new prices are charged. Shipping and Handling is $22.95 per rifle (June 2008).


IF you can find a "correct as issued" Garand (from CMP or AIM) expect to pay BIG $$$$.



Link Posted: 11/2/2009 7:54:27 AM EST
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:03:01 AM EST
Yea, I know MOST don't match but never realize it is THAT hard to get a all match garand...

B/c AIM have a few Garands that said '100% Springfield' Garand, so I thought that it is all matching numbers...

So...What is the weak side of the Refinished Garand from AIM?

Are they all true GI parts except the Boyd stock and new barrel?
Link Posted: 11/2/2009 8:51:08 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 10:05:17 AM EST by ma96782]
Originally Posted By kiddsf:
Yea, I know MOST don't match but never realize it is THAT hard to get a all match garand...

B/c AIM have a few Garands that said '100% Springfield' Garand, so I thought that it is all matching numbers...

So...What is the weak side of the Refinished Garand from AIM?

Are they all true GI parts except the Boyd stock and new barrel?




I think you're confused about American Mfn and German Mfn of firearms and WHAT the ser# have to do with it.

The Germans (and some other countries) made rifles and marked their parts with the receiver ser# (or last couple digits) on the parts. They did it so that the parts could be put back onto the SAME firearm.

Americans believe that it's better to have parts interchangeability. Parts have to be made to fit w/ little or no gunsmith work. Only the receiver is serial numbered.

Remember your history? Eli Whitney.

So……….the numbers that are stamped on the major parts found on your Garand are usually Mfn and/or drawing numbers. Then, sometimes you may see "-3" (or whatever) added to the end of a drawing number.........those dash numbers tell about "revisions/changes" that have been made to the original drawings and production.

Imagine.........parts are put into a bin, the assembler takes a part out and installs it. New parts get added to the bin when the supply get's low. The assembler doesn't care that the drawing numbers are different. As long as the part fits, it's GTG.

For a collector, a part's number/dash number and date stamp on a barrel makes a big difference. Not to mention stock cartouche. It ALL has to be correct, to the time frame of when the receiver was made. They'll be happy with nothing else.

And YES............because "perfect records" were not kept............there is some room for error (as in the example of the assembler above).

Then consider...............

How Original Are those M1 Garands

The vast majority of M1 Garands have undergone refurbishment and upgrading –– and those used for training, frequent repairs and parts replacements –– which left them with few original parts. It is highly unlikely that any M1 Garand that served in the European, Alaskan, North African or Pacific Theaters escaped at least one refurbishment. Battlefields are hard on men and just as hard on weapons. Wood and metal tend to dent, splinter, rust and corrode when exposed to unremitting rain and snow, are carried, dragged, dropped, bumped against any number of obstacles, whether used in combat, stored in racks between guard mounts, carried in vehicles and dropped from aircraft as part of the paratrooper's load or in cargo containers.

Anyone who has experienced basic training will laugh at the idea that an M1 Garand issued in 1942 will retain any of its original parts three years later after having been dragged through the mud, cleaned a thousand times or more, taken apart, parts tossed on a blanket in the squad bay and reassembled, day after day, month after month.

After the liberation of Belgium in the fall of 1944, depots were moved from England whose sole purpose was the refurbishment of battle weapons. Rifles picked up on the battlefield, sent in by unit armorers and those rotated off the line, were shipped to these depots where they were disassembled, cleaned, repaired, parts upgraded, restocked and returned to the line. At the end of the war, a concerted effort was made in both the European and Pacific theaters to refurbish every battle rifle that could be found. Similar activities took place at the Springfield National Armory and in smaller depots around the Continental United States.

So, the M1 Garand that you purchased at your local gun shop or gun show is probably far removed from the rifle that left the factory. In many cases, only the receiver is original and it has probably been refinished at least once. If you are exceptionally lucky, it still retains its original barrel.



Quote taken from: http://www.northcapepubs.com/m1gar.htm
_______________________________

Advertising "100% SA" don't mean much to a collector. As the SA receiver may have been produced in May 1943 but, the parts (although SA) may have been made in 1952 (or whenever).
_______________________________

Aloha, Mark


PS..............most collectors (I know of)................don't want a "refinished firearm." They want their collector firearms in, "as issued condition."






Link Posted: 11/2/2009 10:14:01 AM EST
[Last Edit: 11/2/2009 10:20:48 AM EST by MayorOfCampAtterbury]
Originally Posted By kiddsf:
So, you think the $950 Garand at AIM, thats got all original GI parts will be more valuable?

Interesting, and it makes sense...

Thank you for all the information.

Yea, I'm a 'noob' too when it comes to M1 Garands...

Hope some experts can help us out on how to pick a Garand


Join the Garand Collectors Association, and read the CMP forums, if you REALLY want to get deep into Garands. I personally haven't taken the time that I would like to take to do this, but if I was 60-something and looking at a retirement hobby job, Garands would probably be something to interest me.

A few things of note, "all original GI parts" is kind of a relative term. If the gun parts are "all original" to that serial numbered weapon (i.e. never had a part replaced) it would be worth closer to the $4000 figure quoted above, but how would you really know, since most parts aren't serialized. I just picked up a 1955 IHC Garand off GB (aka the evil auction site) from a collector well known in CMP and Garand collector circles, for a shade under $2000. It has "correct" parts, meaning the drawing numbers for that serial number are the same drawing numbers used on the original weapons produced that the weapon's serial number falls within. Aside from wear patterns and refinishing, if all the parts match, it would be somewhat difficult to say if the parts were the originals or just matched to serial number, at least to the average joe.

And, as far as refinishing goes, the Ol' Man told me long ago, regarding rusty old farm tools, once you refinish it, it's value decreases (IOW it's more valuable in it's current, rusty condition, just put some oil on to stop the rusting, and don't use anything tougher than your fingernail to remove surface rust.) If it wasn't refinished by US.mil or Foreign.mil, it's value decreased the second it was stripped.
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 2:04:25 PM EST
So, okay, I have more question...

Is the Special Grade M1 Garand at CMP about the same as the one at AIM, since they both have new stocks and barrel?

And, Do you guys think the $950 'original' M1 Garand at AIM is worth it? It seems to be not refinished and all original GI
Link Posted: 11/3/2009 5:11:25 PM EST
Originally Posted By kiddsf:
So, okay, I have more question...

Is the Special Grade M1 Garand at CMP about the same as the one at AIM, since they both have new stocks and barrel?

And, Do you guys think the $950 'original' M1 Garand at AIM is worth it? It seems to be not refinished and all original GI

By "original", I think they're referring to the receiver - forged USGI instead of cast commercial. The description says they've been refurbished. I haven't seen one of the AIM M1s but for the same money, you could buy a CMP Correct Grade if they become available again. I have nothing against AIM but I'm partial to CMP when it comes to M1s. It's hard to go wrong with a CMP Service Grade.

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