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11/9/2018 9:21:38 PM
RNVG - New bino option (Page 3 of 4)
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Link Posted: 7/24/2018 12:00:32 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chosos:

2 Concerns:

1. Corrosion. I know my early MOD 3's were having some corrosion issues from various metals being used. It was galvanic corrosion, and was a result of passing voltage across 2 different metals, which made the battery caps very difficult to remove. Conductive grease helped mitigate the problem, but it was still a design flaw and I provided that feedback to AB. Hopefully galvanic corrosion isn't an issue and the contacts and pads are all complimentary metals.

2. Shut-off's. If the contacts slide and they are spring powered like the MOD 3 power contacts, I wonder if will have similar issues as the MOD 3's. I've read multiple reports that MOD 3's will cut out intermittently while ATV'ing and hitting bumps. I haven't run into that issue with mine, yet though. Maybe someone who has can speak directly to this issue?

These are by no means deal breakers. I think extra bridge options are great and I love my MOD 3's despite any minor design flaws.
View Quote
New contacts used now have just about stopped any issues with contacts. Just like a firearm you need to maintain your device and keep it clean and dry after use. If properly cleaned and maintained the ABNV products are problem free.
Link Posted: 7/24/2018 12:08:08 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By chosos:

Is the RNVG design a collaboration with Night Vision Inc, or is Night Vision Inc selling the product sorta like TNVC (or other vendors) sell it? I wasn't sure and just wanted to clear it up - I ask because I thought I read somewhere that you helped design it.
View Quote
We have been friends with ABNV for a long time and The RNVG is 100% ABNV design and contrary to others statements, it is an answer to the numerous request we had from MOD3 customers wanting a similar goggle but fixed bridge. The RNVG is the answer to the MOD3 customers requests for a fixed bridge goggle because they didnt want to order the other fixed bridge options and requested a non modular goggle.
It is by far the most robust and innovative fixed bridge goggle on the market bar none.
Link Posted: 7/24/2018 10:06:07 AM EST
So if I have 2 pvs-14’s, I can turn them into true duals for roughly $1100. Sounds like a win win.
Link Posted: 7/24/2018 12:19:55 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ownnight:

New contacts used now have just about stopped any issues with contacts. Just like a firearm you need to maintain your device and keep it clean and dry after use. If properly cleaned and maintained the ABNV products are problem free.
View Quote
The device that I had issues with sat 99.9% of its life in a sealed case, inside of a humidity controlled safe, and it was never wet nor dirty. Operating conditions was not causing my corrosion issue. At any rate, ABNV has fixed that issue, so if this is modeled after the MOD 3, it is likely a non-issue now.
Link Posted: 7/24/2018 5:10:47 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By TATBME:
So if I have 2 pvs-14’s, I can turn them into true duals for roughly $1100. Sounds like a win win.
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Only if you have 10160 style tubes in your 14’s and not the normal 11769 tubes. As far as I know the RNVG is only 10160 compatible.
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 8:42:10 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/25/2018 8:42:33 AM EST by brodband8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By great308:

Only if you have 10160 style tubes in your 14’s and not the normal 11769 tubes. As far as I know the RNVG is only 10160 compatible.
View Quote
You can use mx11769 tubes. Just have to have pigtail removed and resistor in place if needed to run it in 10160 format.
Link Posted: 7/25/2018 10:20:12 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By brodband8:
You can use mx11769 tubes. Just have to have pigtail removed and resistor in place if needed to run it in 10160 format.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By brodband8:
Originally Posted By great308:

Only if you have 10160 style tubes in your 14’s and not the normal 11769 tubes. As far as I know the RNVG is only 10160 compatible.
You can use mx11769 tubes. Just have to have pigtail removed and resistor in place if needed to run it in 10160 format.
That makes sense, I knew it was a 10160 format just with the pigtail.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 8:56:37 AM EST
After a few emails back and forth with Glynn, and a phone call, I've got a set of WP DEP/Photonis heaeded my way. Incredible customer service and a very easy process. Can't wait to put these guys to use.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 1:23:31 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By MrJonesandMe:
After a few emails back and forth with Glynn, and a phone call, I've got a set of WP DEP/Photonis heaeded my way. Incredible customer service and a very easy process. Can't wait to put these guys to use.
View Quote
Post your thoughts on it when you get to test it out... pictures are also acceptable
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 2:42:39 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/26/2018 7:02:00 PM EST by terry1]
You will be happy. I just received the UNV rental echo pvs-14 and in my basement which is pitch black, can’t see my hand 18” in front of me the echo tube is performing just a touch below my 64lp/29SN TNVC pvs-14 which is one of my favorite NV units because it’s very clean spot/spec plus performs great on dark nights.

The L3 WP filmless is maybe 10% brighter, but the Echo has less noise to the image. Both look great to me will do some more testing later outdoors and in a dark warehouse environment. As long as your not paying at or close too gen 3 money value should be there for what I’ve seen so far.
Link Posted: 7/26/2018 2:44:26 PM EST
What are people paying for total conversion? I have a pair of PVS14's with photonis 10160 style tubes inside and i'm getting the idea of converting them over stuck in my head.
Link Posted: 7/27/2018 6:09:35 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By blackghost:
What are people paying for total conversion? I have a pair of PVS14's with photonis 10160 style tubes inside and i'm getting the idea of converting them over stuck in my head.
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Email Glynn at night vision inc, he will work with you on flopping stuff out, I don't know price because i went with new tubes.
Link Posted: 7/27/2018 9:24:29 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By pbjunkiee:

Email Glynn at night vision inc, he will work with you on flopping stuff out, I don't know price because i went with new tubes.
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I think he was banned from ar15.com because your username cannot have the name of your business in it or be the name of a URL to your business website or something like that.
Link Posted: 7/27/2018 10:06:54 PM EST
I had been planning on Sentinels, but after reading up on these i think i've found my winner

and $6,800 is way more easy to stomach than $9k'ish
Link Posted: 7/28/2018 8:57:09 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By drago6:
I had been planning on Sentinels, but after reading up on these i think i've found my winner

and $6,800 is way more easy to stomach than $9k'ish
View Quote
Touche man.
Link Posted: 7/28/2018 9:52:40 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By drago6:
I had been planning on Sentinels, but after reading up on these i think i've found my winner

and $6,800 is way more easy to stomach than $9k'ish
View Quote
If the price points are that different, I am assuming one is with L3 filess tubes and one is with Photonis or thin-filmed tubes.
Link Posted: 7/28/2018 10:49:57 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2018 11:16:25 AM EST by great308]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sbye:
If the price points are that different, I am assuming one is with L3 filess tubes and one is with Photonis or thin-filmed tubes.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sbye:
Originally Posted By drago6:
I had been planning on Sentinels, but after reading up on these i think i've found my winner

and $6,800 is way more easy to stomach than $9k'ish
If the price points are that different, I am assuming one is with L3 filess tubes and one is with Photonis or thin-filmed tubes.
Or just lower spec L3 filmless?
Link Posted: 7/28/2018 1:07:12 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By drago6:
I had been planning on Sentinels, but after reading up on these i think i've found my winner

and $6,800 is way more easy to stomach than $9k'ish
View Quote
Where are you seeing them for $6,800?
Link Posted: 7/28/2018 3:58:19 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By great308:
Post your thoughts on it when you get to test it out... pictures are also acceptable
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Originally Posted By great308:
Originally Posted By MrJonesandMe:
After a few emails back and forth with Glynn, and a phone call, I've got a set of WP DEP/Photonis heaeded my way. Incredible customer service and a very easy process. Can't wait to put these guys to use.
Post your thoughts on it when you get to test it out... pictures are also acceptable
Definitely will, to both of those. I still need to get a helmet for it, but I've got a g24 mount at least.
Link Posted: 7/28/2018 5:04:32 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ljh824:

Where are you seeing them for $6,800?
View Quote
https://www.nvincorporated.com/product/ab-nightvision-rnvg-black-l3-wp-gen3/
Link Posted: 7/28/2018 6:22:59 PM EST
Hmm.....I was going to save my paper route money for some Sentinels but now a new challenger has appeared. Would kind of like to have the battery pack option. Might have to wait and see.
Link Posted: 7/28/2018 6:53:41 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/28/2018 7:12:15 PM EST by sbye]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By great308:

Or just lower spec L3 filmless?
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I looked at the link and I think you're right. It says L3 Autogated Unfilmed WP tubes. Probably com spec or 18um. I'd be curious to know what L3 tubes they are.
Link Posted: 7/30/2018 10:14:50 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2018 10:16:59 AM EST by Evintos]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By sbye:

I looked at the link and I think you're right. It says L3 Autogated Unfilmed WP tubes. Probably com spec or 18um. I'd be curious to know what L3 tubes they are.
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I actually messaged them last week about this (through FB). They're Omni VIII tubes.
Link Posted: 7/30/2018 10:21:37 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Evintos:

I actually messaged them last week about this (through FB). They're Omni VIII tubes.
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So whats the catch? Blems?
Link Posted: 7/30/2018 10:32:27 AM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2018 10:32:48 AM EST by Evintos]
Originally Posted By rlltd42:

So whats the catch? Blems?
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No clue. I sent a PM of the message. It won't be particularly enlightening though.
Link Posted: 7/30/2018 8:57:05 PM EST
Call me cynical but I'm a cynic I guess.

Anyways, have we seen these start hitting the street yet?
Link Posted: 7/30/2018 9:50:28 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rlltd42:
Call me cynical but I'm a cynic I guess.

Anyways, have we seen these start hitting the street yet?
View Quote
I know a few people have them already.
Link Posted: 7/30/2018 10:11:46 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By great308:

I know a few people have them already.
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Any further reviews popping up? I've been hitting the EE hard but still got a few things left to sell, so probably another 1-2 months before I have 100% of the money scraped together. Pretty sure I'm going to take the plunge on some WP filmless duals if the additional reviews keep sounding good.
Link Posted: 7/30/2018 10:29:28 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2018 10:30:31 PM EST by brodband8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Evintos:

No clue. I sent a PM of the message. It won't be particularly enlightening though.
View Quote
They are L3 Unfilmed Autogated and around 2000 fom or better clean and clear super nice tubes.
Link Posted: 7/30/2018 10:30:26 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By rlltd42:
Any further reviews popping up? I've been hitting the EE hard but still got a few things left to sell, so probably another 1-2 months before I have 100% of the money scraped together. Pretty sure I'm going to take the plunge on some WP filmless duals if the additional reviews keep sounding good.
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Originally Posted By rlltd42:
Originally Posted By great308:

I know a few people have them already.
Any further reviews popping up? I've been hitting the EE hard but still got a few things left to sell, so probably another 1-2 months before I have 100% of the money scraped together. Pretty sure I'm going to take the plunge on some WP filmless duals if the additional reviews keep sounding good.
Don’t know, I know one person in here has a set coming. Hopefully any day now mine will come and I can throw my .02 out there.
Link Posted: 7/30/2018 11:00:22 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/30/2018 11:15:47 PM EST by Evintos]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By brodband8:

They are L3 Unfilmed Autogated and around 2000 fom or better clean and clear super nice tubes.
View Quote
I was told they meet Omni VIII specs. My concern would be how much better is the L3 compared to the DEP/Photonis Hybrid. I saw a few Instagram and Facebook posts which favored the DEP/Photonis Hybrid tubes over the L3, which leads me to believe they're closer to the Omni VIII minimum spec range than the upper end (comparing from other posters tube specs). Other posts indicate an incredibly respectable L3 tube.

In any case, the price for either is phenomenal which is setting off alarms for me. I and I think many others (that are willing to purchase binos) are mentally prepared to save and have resigned ourselves to spending quite a large sum. It's a fairly big price difference so I'm with rlltd42. Not cynical, but skeptical. I want to believe though so a big thank you to anyone who is willing to share their experience/reviews!

Example - DEP/Photonis (62lpmm & 27-31 SNR)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BbWY_XDD9AD/?taken-by=nightvisioninc

Example - L3 (73lpmm 32.2SNR)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BZS8Jtgj_Ch/?taken-by=nightvisioninc

Comment on L3 vs DEP/Photonis
https://www.instagram.com/p/BgZppk9hd9p/?taken-by=nightvisioninc
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 8:58:26 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By great308:
Don’t know, I know one person in here has a set coming. Hopefully any day now mine will come and I can throw my .02 out there.
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By great308:
Originally Posted By rlltd42:
Originally Posted By great308:

I know a few people have them already.
Any further reviews popping up? I've been hitting the EE hard but still got a few things left to sell, so probably another 1-2 months before I have 100% of the money scraped together. Pretty sure I'm going to take the plunge on some WP filmless duals if the additional reviews keep sounding good.
Don’t know, I know one person in here has a set coming. Hopefully any day now mine will come and I can throw my .02 out there.
I've got the DEP/Hybrid tubes coming, mine was one in the group that Glynn posted yesterday I'm pretty sure. Not the filmless tubes, but I'll still give you a rundown.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 9:34:26 AM EST
@TNVC any chance you all can gives us your thoughts/concerns? You all seem to be the level headed NV folks who can gives us the straight scoop with this type of stuff.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 10:12:23 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Evintos:

I was told they meet Omni VIII specs. My concern would be how much better is the L3 compared to the DEP/Photonis Hybrid. I saw a few Instagram and Facebook posts which favored the DEP/Photonis Hybrid tubes over the L3, which leads me to believe they're closer to the Omni VIII minimum spec range than the upper end (comparing from other posters tube specs). Other posts indicate an incredibly respectable L3 tube.

In any case, the price for either is phenomenal which is setting off alarms for me. I and I think many others (that are willing to purchase binos) are mentally prepared to save and have resigned ourselves to spending quite a large sum. It's a fairly big price difference so I'm with rlltd42. Not cynical, but skeptical. I want to believe though so a big thank you to anyone who is willing to share their experience/reviews!

Example - DEP/Photonis (62lpmm & 27-31 SNR)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BbWY_XDD9AD/?taken-by=nightvisioninc

Example - L3 (73lpmm 32.2SNR)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BZS8Jtgj_Ch/?taken-by=nightvisioninc

Comment on L3 vs DEP/Photonis
https://www.instagram.com/p/BgZppk9hd9p/?taken-by=nightvisioninc
View Quote
My humble opinion from the few I’ve seen.

Do you want to pay $1500+ more for at best (I’m talking a rare super tube) 20%?

And from what I’ve seen it’s more like 10-15% better.

This post comes with no overtones. Literally. Do you want X percentage better? Pay thousands more. To some that’s the obvious answer. Get the best no matter the cost because you want to see in the darkest light possible.

To others it’s just not worth it.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 10:22:32 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NVjunkie:

My humble opinion from the few I’ve seen.

Do you want to pay $1500+ more for at best (I’m talking a rare super tube) 20%?

And from what I’ve seen it’s more like 10-15% better.

This post comes with no overtones. Literally. Do you want X percentage better? Pay thousands more. To some that’s the obvious answer. Get the best no matter the cost because you want to see in the darkest light possible.

To others it’s just not worth it.
View Quote
That was partially my thinking behind my purchase as well. My time in the military is done. This is more of a hobby purchase for me now. I do plan to train a lot with it, don't get me wrong. But it's going to be on a flat range with no one shooting back at me. If I need more light, I'll use an illuminator. To me, it just made sense. The price difference was a no brainer to me. We'll see how it works though, but I know Glynn is a stand up guy and wouldn't lead people astray, so I'm sure I'll be more than pleased with the unit I purchased.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 11:44:05 AM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By NVjunkie:
My humble opinion from the few I’ve seen.

Do you want to pay $1500+ more for at best (I’m talking a rare super tube) 20%?

And from what I’ve seen it’s more like 10-15% better.

This post comes with no overtones. Literally. Do you want X percentage better? Pay thousands more. To some that’s the obvious answer. Get the best no matter the cost because you want to see in the darkest light possible.

To others it’s just not worth it.
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Originally Posted By NVjunkie:
Originally Posted By Evintos:

I was told they meet Omni VIII specs. My concern would be how much better is the L3 compared to the DEP/Photonis Hybrid. I saw a few Instagram and Facebook posts which favored the DEP/Photonis Hybrid tubes over the L3, which leads me to believe they're closer to the Omni VIII minimum spec range than the upper end (comparing from other posters tube specs). Other posts indicate an incredibly respectable L3 tube.

In any case, the price for either is phenomenal which is setting off alarms for me. I and I think many others (that are willing to purchase binos) are mentally prepared to save and have resigned ourselves to spending quite a large sum. It's a fairly big price difference so I'm with rlltd42. Not cynical, but skeptical. I want to believe though so a big thank you to anyone who is willing to share their experience/reviews!

Example - DEP/Photonis (62lpmm & 27-31 SNR)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BbWY_XDD9AD/?taken-by=nightvisioninc

Example - L3 (73lpmm 32.2SNR)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BZS8Jtgj_Ch/?taken-by=nightvisioninc

Comment on L3 vs DEP/Photonis
https://www.instagram.com/p/BgZppk9hd9p/?taken-by=nightvisioninc
My humble opinion from the few I’ve seen.

Do you want to pay $1500+ more for at best (I’m talking a rare super tube) 20%?

And from what I’ve seen it’s more like 10-15% better.

This post comes with no overtones. Literally. Do you want X percentage better? Pay thousands more. To some that’s the obvious answer. Get the best no matter the cost because you want to see in the darkest light possible.

To others it’s just not worth it.
From what I understand the lower spec L3 tubes that are closer in cost to the photonis are very comparable with maybe a slight edge going to the L3 but your talking maybe 5% or less of an edge maybe. So is the cost increase of $1000 worth the slight edge? Some say the photonis have a slight edge over the lower spec L3, with different tube specs and blems I can see ether being the case. Any way you look at it your throwing the dice at which one will marginally do better and $1000 dice at that.

Now the high spec L3 WILL do allot better, 15 to 20% and maybe higher for super spec tubes. Thats nothing to sneeze at, I mean 20% or higher is almost a 1/4 better performance and a 1/4 is allot! That said your going to pay $1000 to $1500 more per a tube for those high spec L3's putting a total binocular setup between the $8500 to 10k, or even higher, range depending on the housing you choose and how high spec you go. Like what was said multiple times, if your going single tube then it makes the cost increase to a high spec L3 worth it. When your talking bino's with two tubes, for many thats just too much for a set of something that is going to be used mostly recreationally.

The other concern would be warranty, like what was said TNVC and a few others have 5 and 10 year warranties on their setups. 10 year warranty and high spec L3 on a PVS14 setup would just make sense to me. 5 year on bino's and high spec L3 makes sense if you have the money to spend and need the absolute low light performance. That said a 5 year (standard mostly) on a bino housings and 2 on tubes is not bad ether.

In a two tube setup with good spec photonis tubes is a great performance to value setup as far as my research has revealed. If you are buying new it is a good option to look into as well as other options out there. Buying used, its hard to beat filmed or even some filmless green setups which are going for great prices right now because everyone wants white.

That is just my opinion and I am no expert so take it as you will.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 12:13:53 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2018 12:17:21 PM EST by TNVC]
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 12:15:03 PM EST
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By great308:
From what I understand the lower spec L3 tubes that are closer in cost to the photonis are very comparable with maybe a slight edge going to the L3 but your talking maybe 5% or less of an edge maybe. So is the cost increase of $1000 worth the slight edge? Some say the photonis have a slight edge over the lower spec L3, with different tube specs and blems I can see ether being the case. Any way you look at it your throwing the dice at which one will marginally do better and $1000 dice at that.

Now the high spec L3 WILL do allot better, 15 to 20% and maybe higher for super spec tubes. Thats nothing to sneeze at, I mean 20% or higher is almost a 1/4 better performance and a 1/4 is allot! That said your going to pay $1000 to $1500 more per a tube for those high spec L3's putting a total binocular setup between the $8500 to 10k, or even higher, range depending on the housing you choose and how high spec you go. Like what was said multiple times, if your going single tube then it makes the cost increase to a high spec L3 worth it. When your talking bino's with two tubes, for many thats just too much for a set of something that is going to be used mostly recreationally.

The other concern would be warranty, like what was said TNVC and a few others have 5 and 10 year warranties on their setups. 10 year warranty and high spec L3 on a PVS14 setup would just make sense to me. 5 year on bino's and high spec L3 makes sense if you have the money to spend and need the absolute low light performance. That said a 5 year (standard mostly) on a bino housings and 2 on tubes is not bad ether.

In a two tube setup with good spec photonis tubes is a great performance to value setup as far as my research has revealed. If you are buying new it is a good option to look into as well as other options out there. Buying used, its hard to beat filmed or even some filmless green setups which are going for great prices right now because everyone wants white.

That is just my opinion and I am no expert so take it as you will.
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Originally Posted By great308:
Originally Posted By NVjunkie:
Originally Posted By Evintos:

I was told they meet Omni VIII specs. My concern would be how much better is the L3 compared to the DEP/Photonis Hybrid. I saw a few Instagram and Facebook posts which favored the DEP/Photonis Hybrid tubes over the L3, which leads me to believe they're closer to the Omni VIII minimum spec range than the upper end (comparing from other posters tube specs). Other posts indicate an incredibly respectable L3 tube.

In any case, the price for either is phenomenal which is setting off alarms for me. I and I think many others (that are willing to purchase binos) are mentally prepared to save and have resigned ourselves to spending quite a large sum. It's a fairly big price difference so I'm with rlltd42. Not cynical, but skeptical. I want to believe though so a big thank you to anyone who is willing to share their experience/reviews!

Example - DEP/Photonis (62lpmm & 27-31 SNR)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BbWY_XDD9AD/?taken-by=nightvisioninc

Example - L3 (73lpmm 32.2SNR)
https://www.instagram.com/p/BZS8Jtgj_Ch/?taken-by=nightvisioninc

Comment on L3 vs DEP/Photonis
https://www.instagram.com/p/BgZppk9hd9p/?taken-by=nightvisioninc
My humble opinion from the few I’ve seen.

Do you want to pay $1500+ more for at best (I’m talking a rare super tube) 20%?

And from what I’ve seen it’s more like 10-15% better.

This post comes with no overtones. Literally. Do you want X percentage better? Pay thousands more. To some that’s the obvious answer. Get the best no matter the cost because you want to see in the darkest light possible.

To others it’s just not worth it.
From what I understand the lower spec L3 tubes that are closer in cost to the photonis are very comparable with maybe a slight edge going to the L3 but your talking maybe 5% or less of an edge maybe. So is the cost increase of $1000 worth the slight edge? Some say the photonis have a slight edge over the lower spec L3, with different tube specs and blems I can see ether being the case. Any way you look at it your throwing the dice at which one will marginally do better and $1000 dice at that.

Now the high spec L3 WILL do allot better, 15 to 20% and maybe higher for super spec tubes. Thats nothing to sneeze at, I mean 20% or higher is almost a 1/4 better performance and a 1/4 is allot! That said your going to pay $1000 to $1500 more per a tube for those high spec L3's putting a total binocular setup between the $8500 to 10k, or even higher, range depending on the housing you choose and how high spec you go. Like what was said multiple times, if your going single tube then it makes the cost increase to a high spec L3 worth it. When your talking bino's with two tubes, for many thats just too much for a set of something that is going to be used mostly recreationally.

The other concern would be warranty, like what was said TNVC and a few others have 5 and 10 year warranties on their setups. 10 year warranty and high spec L3 on a PVS14 setup would just make sense to me. 5 year on bino's and high spec L3 makes sense if you have the money to spend and need the absolute low light performance. That said a 5 year (standard mostly) on a bino housings and 2 on tubes is not bad ether.

In a two tube setup with good spec photonis tubes is a great performance to value setup as far as my research has revealed. If you are buying new it is a good option to look into as well as other options out there. Buying used, its hard to beat filmed or even some filmless green setups which are going for great prices right now because everyone wants white.

That is just my opinion and I am no expert so take it as you will.
great308 expressed my thoughts much better than I did. For an extra $1K, I'm having trouble seeing the value with the L3 (example - 72+lp/mm 32.2SNR) compared to the DEP/Photonis (62lpmm & 27-31 SNR). If it was guaranteed that all the L3 tubes are the super rare 72+lp/mm min, 34+SNR, then I have no trouble spending the extra $1k+ for sure. With a "meets Omni VIII specs", that's a little tougher to swallow over the DEP/Photonis (for the price) since the range is so broad from min spec to unicorn spec...

The differences in warranty didn't really matter much to me after comparing the fine print on the warranties.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 12:19:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2018 12:23:32 PM EST by TNVC]
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 12:46:13 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TNVC:
?? You don't have to...Our L3 and Harris thin filmed (white and green) perform just as good and edge out the echo and are NOT $1000 more, not even close. We offer a L3 thin filmed with a 10 year warranty at $3195.00. Had a special sale on the the white filmed at $2998 on 4th of July (sold out 40 systems in a total of 10 minutes) all with a 10 year warranty.
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Originally Posted By TNVC:
Originally Posted By Evintos:

great308 expressed my thoughts much better than I did. For an extra $1K, I'm having trouble seeing the value with the L3 (example - 72+lp/mm 32.2SNR) compared to the DEP/Photonis (62lpmm & 27-31 SNR). If it was guaranteed that all the L3 tubes are the super rare 72+lp/mm min, 34+SNR, then I have no trouble spending the extra $1k+ for sure. With a "meets Omni VIII specs", that's a little tougher to swallow over the DEP/Photonis (for the price) since the range is so broad from min spec to unicorn spec...

The differences in warranty didn't really matter much to me after comparing the fine print on the warranties.
?? You don't have to...Our L3 and Harris thin filmed (white and green) perform just as good and edge out the echo and are NOT $1000 more, not even close. We offer a L3 thin filmed with a 10 year warranty at $3195.00. Had a special sale on the the white filmed at $2998 on 4th of July (sold out 40 systems in a total of 10 minutes) all with a 10 year warranty.
Price on duals?
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 12:57:53 PM EST
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 1:10:33 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TNVC:
We have several dual systems, check on our web site.
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None listed with thin filmed white.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 1:11:00 PM EST
[Last Edit: 7/31/2018 1:27:51 PM EST by Evintos]
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Originally Posted By TNVC:

?? You don't have to...Our L3 and Harris thin filmed (white and green) perform just as good and edge out the echo and are NOT $1000 more, not even close. We offer a L3 thin filmed with a 10 year warranty at $3195.00. Had a special sale on the the white filmed at $2998 on 4th of July (sold out 40 systems in a total of 10 minutes) all with a 10 year warranty.
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Comparing Sentinel binos for example -
$7899 thin-filmed L3 vs $9249.99 filmless L3 (WP)

From what I've read (still researching since there's a lot of info to process), filmless is 10-20% better than thin filmed. I know TNVC "hand selects" L3 filmless but as far I can tell
Resolution: 64 lp/mm (Typical) is the same for both (minimums I'm assuming). S/N I'm assuming the average is above Omni VIII minimums but no guarantee of the super impressive rare spec tubes. Does the 10-20% improvement between filmless and thin filmed for example both tube specs come in at 64lp/mm and S/N 32 still apply?

Then one of your competitors lists a L3 Unfilmed WP Bino set (RNVG) for a fair bit less (not to mention the even less expensive Echo RNVG) than the TNVC L3 Unfilmed and Filmed RNVG $8656 and $7399 respectively and I'm flabbergasted and left to wonder besides for the warranty, how the heck is there a drastic difference in pricing if it's a "meets Omni VIII requirement". If I understand correctly, ITAR reasons is why average specs of the products can't be listed publicly but man does it make it hard to research, shop and budget for.

Edited to add - PVS-14 pricing is similar enough between the L3 and Harris thin filmed vs the PVS-14 DEP/Photonis Echo where if I was looking to purchase a PVS-14, the 10 year warranty on the TNVC is more than worth the extra $100 (great value). I'm largely confused by the pricing differences in the RNVG.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 1:16:49 PM EST
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Originally Posted By TNVC:
We have several dual systems, check on our web site.
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You know, all this talk about different tubes lately has me thinking about getting another tube for a build. What are the general specs you're seeing from the L3 thin filmed WP? I remember L3 was yielding some fantastic spec'd filmed tubes just a few years ago, before the filmless tube production took off. I'm guessing these are all 11769 format? But L3 has those cool pigtails that basically clip in & out, so it's not a huge deal to go 10160 format down the road for a dual build, correct? Finally, what would someone be looking at for just a tube?

I'm really interested in sourcing a Photonis WP Echo, just to see the multi-alkali photocathode in action & that calm image with lesser scintillation people talk about when it gets darker. But if the thin filmed has some great spec numbers and is at a good price point, I'd be interested, just to get eyes on some WP in general.
Link Posted: 7/31/2018 2:42:23 PM EST
Link Posted: 8/1/2018 4:26:57 AM EST
You get the photonis because your bino bridge will break before your tube does. What difference is a ten vs two year warranty when most the shit that goes wrong is user error? Let me repeat this for the stubborn in the back:

Are you a normal, thoughtful, reasonable person? Then go Gen 2 because Gen 3 is a disposable item and designed to make cucked up pieces of shit like L3 monies for decades. Gen 2 won't break. Gen 2 is better oob. Gen 2 is the future. Gen 3, is shitty.

Unless you're doing star gazing or science, tits through a window are pretty much the same in green, chrome (cyborg titties best titties) thin filmed, thick filmed for her pleasure or no film because you like space herpes.

You guys are aware they burn tubes in house to error check them before shipping right? Probably for longer than any of you use them the next year after the first month of omg I apex now. Your tubes will break if you do these things:

1: leave them on when you shouldn't
2: live in an environment composed of helium
3: you bought L3 shit and they bent you over with the promise of high specs and gucci shit but failed to tell you in reality no one gives a fuck and all tubes dim, dipshit. Your specs last a year, less under real usage.
4: you drop them and you didn't buy Gen 2. Bonus if you have a panic attack, post here, realize it's just debris. That poor dude was probably beating himself up so hard over that.

If something was going to go wrong when they make a tube, they rip the top off, sell it without markings and who gives a fuck since most of you are waaaay to involved in giving a fuck about specs so you'd never buy it anyway. Overpaying is the new/old status symbol I guess. You even think that tubes aren't disposable pieces of shit designed to line the pockets of L3. The funny thing is in the NVG business, telling the truth costs you money.

Also, RNVG looks cool as shit. For those of you wondering why it's priced so cheap, it's because it's cheap as fuck to produce as ALL HOUSINGS ARE (ie ur getting played fam, the designs are mostly shit and the usage of epoxy is criminal) and the idea that any of you would even know the difference between f1.2 - f1.3. it's like +- 5% anyway. Tolerances are a bitch.

Blaming glass is so laughable. The Chinese glass is better anyway. You're going to lose more light from the shitty PVS 14 coatings than you would if you just cut the fucking glass yourself with a screwdriver. Milspec glass is shit. You know what an import objective and ocular lens costs? Don't look, you'll hate yourself for overpaying and paying for reduced specs.

Every fucking time in these threads. Look, your eyeballs can't tell the difference and if they could, use more IR. Specs only matter to astronomers and fanbois. Your friend you show won't even know how to set the ocular properly so who gives a flying fuck about 64 vs 72 vs 2200 and 18um series whatever. You. Won't. Be. Able. To. Tell. Also, Photonis is the future. L3 are cucks and should suck a dick.

Seriously bad tubes are obvious. You're not going to get that from any of the major vendors here, even the verboten ones. You guys are worse than gear whores. No one knows or cares the fom formula when you take them out. They just see in the dark. Like you will. If you would just stop being so easily duped into caring about trivial shit like specs once they get past a certain level. You're not a scientist or astronomer, you're Gary, a semisuccesful middleclass guy who puts ten hours a year on your tubes but worries about a ten year warranty vs a two year warranty. Holy shit stop.

Also, whomst makes the RNVG and others:

STOP PUTTING ONBOARD IR LIGHTS, IT'S STUPID, IT'S A WASTE OF SPACE AND MATERIALS. THIS IS CURRENT YEAR +3, PUT A FUCKIN RHEOSTAT THERE BECAUSE NO ONE LIKES ABC WHEN STAR GAZING. NO ONE.

Love u my dudes. Just you all scare off the normal folks with buzzwords that don't mean shit. Stop it.

Also TNVC is kinda salty lately. I'm sorry you're salty fam, cheer up.
Link Posted: 8/1/2018 4:42:32 AM EST
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Originally Posted By Jimmybp:

You know, all this talk about different tubes lately has me thinking about getting another tube for a build. What are the general specs you're seeing from the L3 thin filmed WP? I remember L3 was yielding some fantastic spec'd filmed tubes just a few years ago, before the filmless tube production took off. I'm guessing these are all 11769 format? But L3 has those cool pigtails that basically clip in & out, so it's not a huge deal to go 10160 format down the road for a dual build, correct? Finally, what would someone be looking at for just a tube?

I'm really interested in sourcing a Photonis WP Echo, just to see the multi-alkali photocathode in action & that calm image with lesser scintillation people talk about when it gets darker. But if the thin filmed has some great spec numbers and is at a good price point, I'd be interested, just to get eyes on some WP in general.
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Those cool pigtails can suck my dick. Real scientists worked at ITT before they got sold out and fired. L3 are cucks and the pigtail is a lie. It's not cool. It sucks.

I hate manual gain. I also like it. I like it enough to diy it up since our beloved manufacturers would rather put a stupid shoot me in the head light onboard. Dumb af. Probably bc they can't get an L3 pigtail to work right since they are all shit.

10160? Solder a 3mmx1mm smd resisistor on for shitty bino designs or run two wires and stuff em in the 7 or 14 housings with a small rheostat to keep the adjustable gain for when your tube dims a bit
Link Posted: 8/1/2018 7:53:00 AM EST
[Last Edit: 8/1/2018 7:53:27 AM EST by sbye]
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Originally Posted By NSFJojo:
You get the photonis because your bino bridge will break before your tube does. What difference is a ten vs two year warranty when most the shit that goes wrong is user error? Let me repeat this for the stubborn in the back:

Are you a normal, thoughtful, reasonable person? Then go Gen 2 because Gen 3 is a disposable item and designed to make cucked up pieces of shit like L3 monies for decades. Gen 2 won't break. Gen 2 is better oob. Gen 2 is the future. Gen 3, is shitty.

Unless you're doing star gazing or science, tits through a window are pretty much the same in green, chrome (cyborg titties best titties) thin filmed, thick filmed for her pleasure or no film because you like space herpes.

You guys are aware they burn tubes in house to error check them before shipping right? Probably for longer than any of you use them the next year after the first month of omg I apex now. Your tubes will break if you do these things:

1: leave them on when you shouldn't
2: live in an environment composed of helium
3: you bought L3 shit and they bent you over with the promise of high specs and gucci shit but failed to tell you in reality no one gives a fuck and all tubes dim, dipshit. Your specs last a year, less under real usage.
4: you drop them and you didn't buy Gen 2. Bonus if you have a panic attack, post here, realize it's just debris. That poor dude was probably beating himself up so hard over that.

If something was going to go wrong when they make a tube, they rip the top off, sell it without markings and who gives a fuck since most of you are waaaay to involved in giving a fuck about specs so you'd never buy it anyway. Overpaying is the new/old status symbol I guess. You even think that tubes aren't disposable pieces of shit designed to line the pockets of L3. The funny thing is in the NVG business, telling the truth costs you money.

Also, RNVG looks cool as shit. For those of you wondering why it's priced so cheap, it's because it's cheap as fuck to produce as ALL HOUSINGS ARE (ie ur getting played fam, the designs are mostly shit and the usage of epoxy is criminal) and the idea that any of you would even know the difference between f1.2 - f1.3. it's like +- 5% anyway. Tolerances are a bitch.

Blaming glass is so laughable. The Chinese glass is better anyway. You're going to lose more light from the shitty PVS 14 coatings than you would if you just cut the fucking glass yourself with a screwdriver. Milspec glass is shit. You know what an import objective and ocular lens costs? Don't look, you'll hate yourself for overpaying and paying for reduced specs.

Every fucking time in these threads. Look, your eyeballs can't tell the difference and if they could, use more IR. Specs only matter to astronomers and fanbois. Your friend you show won't even know how to set the ocular properly so who gives a flying fuck about 64 vs 72 vs 2200 and 18um series whatever. You. Won't. Be. Able. To. Tell. Also, Photonis is the future. L3 are cucks and should suck a dick.

Seriously bad tubes are obvious. You're not going to get that from any of the major vendors here, even the verboten ones. You guys are worse than gear whores. No one knows or cares the fom formula when you take them out. They just see in the dark. Like you will. If you would just stop being so easily duped into caring about trivial shit like specs once they get past a certain level. You're not a scientist or astronomer, you're Gary, a semisuccesful middleclass guy who puts ten hours a year on your tubes but worries about a ten year warranty vs a two year warranty. Holy shit stop.

Also, whomst makes the RNVG and others:

STOP PUTTING ONBOARD IR LIGHTS, IT'S STUPID, IT'S A WASTE OF SPACE AND MATERIALS. THIS IS CURRENT YEAR +3, PUT A FUCKIN RHEOSTAT THERE BECAUSE NO ONE LIKES ABC WHEN STAR GAZING. NO ONE.

Love u my dudes. Just you all scare off the normal folks with buzzwords that don't mean shit. Stop it.

Also TNVC is kinda salty lately. I'm sorry you're salty fam, cheer up.
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Originally Posted By NSFJojo:
You get the photonis because your bino bridge will break before your tube does. What difference is a ten vs two year warranty when most the shit that goes wrong is user error? Let me repeat this for the stubborn in the back:

Are you a normal, thoughtful, reasonable person? Then go Gen 2 because Gen 3 is a disposable item and designed to make cucked up pieces of shit like L3 monies for decades. Gen 2 won't break. Gen 2 is better oob. Gen 2 is the future. Gen 3, is shitty.

Unless you're doing star gazing or science, tits through a window are pretty much the same in green, chrome (cyborg titties best titties) thin filmed, thick filmed for her pleasure or no film because you like space herpes.

You guys are aware they burn tubes in house to error check them before shipping right? Probably for longer than any of you use them the next year after the first month of omg I apex now. Your tubes will break if you do these things:

1: leave them on when you shouldn't
2: live in an environment composed of helium
3: you bought L3 shit and they bent you over with the promise of high specs and gucci shit but failed to tell you in reality no one gives a fuck and all tubes dim, dipshit. Your specs last a year, less under real usage.
4: you drop them and you didn't buy Gen 2. Bonus if you have a panic attack, post here, realize it's just debris. That poor dude was probably beating himself up so hard over that.

If something was going to go wrong when they make a tube, they rip the top off, sell it without markings and who gives a fuck since most of you are waaaay to involved in giving a fuck about specs so you'd never buy it anyway. Overpaying is the new/old status symbol I guess. You even think that tubes aren't disposable pieces of shit designed to line the pockets of L3. The funny thing is in the NVG business, telling the truth costs you money.

Also, RNVG looks cool as shit. For those of you wondering why it's priced so cheap, it's because it's cheap as fuck to produce as ALL HOUSINGS ARE (ie ur getting played fam, the designs are mostly shit and the usage of epoxy is criminal) and the idea that any of you would even know the difference between f1.2 - f1.3. it's like +- 5% anyway. Tolerances are a bitch.

Blaming glass is so laughable. The Chinese glass is better anyway. You're going to lose more light from the shitty PVS 14 coatings than you would if you just cut the fucking glass yourself with a screwdriver. Milspec glass is shit. You know what an import objective and ocular lens costs? Don't look, you'll hate yourself for overpaying and paying for reduced specs.

Every fucking time in these threads. Look, your eyeballs can't tell the difference and if they could, use more IR. Specs only matter to astronomers and fanbois. Your friend you show won't even know how to set the ocular properly so who gives a flying fuck about 64 vs 72 vs 2200 and 18um series whatever. You. Won't. Be. Able. To. Tell. Also, Photonis is the future. L3 are cucks and should suck a dick.

Seriously bad tubes are obvious. You're not going to get that from any of the major vendors here, even the verboten ones. You guys are worse than gear whores. No one knows or cares the fom formula when you take them out. They just see in the dark. Like you will. If you would just stop being so easily duped into caring about trivial shit like specs once they get past a certain level. You're not a scientist or astronomer, you're Gary, a semisuccesful middleclass guy who puts ten hours a year on your tubes but worries about a ten year warranty vs a two year warranty. Holy shit stop.

Also, whomst makes the RNVG and others:

STOP PUTTING ONBOARD IR LIGHTS, IT'S STUPID, IT'S A WASTE OF SPACE AND MATERIALS. THIS IS CURRENT YEAR +3, PUT A FUCKIN RHEOSTAT THERE BECAUSE NO ONE LIKES ABC WHEN STAR GAZING. NO ONE.

Love u my dudes. Just you all scare off the normal folks with buzzwords that don't mean shit. Stop it.

Also TNVC is kinda salty lately. I'm sorry you're salty fam, cheer up.
Originally Posted By NSFJojo:
Those cool pigtails can suck my dick. Real scientists worked at ITT before they got sold out and fired. L3 are cucks and the pigtail is a lie. It's not cool. It sucks.

I hate manual gain. I also like it. I like it enough to diy it up since our beloved manufacturers would rather put a stupid shoot me in the head light onboard. Dumb af. Probably bc they can't get an L3 pigtail to work right since they are all shit.

10160? Solder a 3mmx1mm smd resisistor on for shitty bino designs or run two wires and stuff em in the 7 or 14 housings with a small rheostat to keep the adjustable gain for when your tube dims a bit


Jesus... who pissed in your Cheerios? Did you even post this in the right thread?

Link Posted: 8/1/2018 10:36:51 AM EST
Hahah, that's always a refreshment from the dead serious discussions. Also some truth in there in my opinion.

Regarding housing prices to give a real world example, the DTNVG when they were doing preorders was to be priced around one third it is now. Then when the preorders finally came to the point you could get it, the price had gone up to match closer what other housings are priced at. Dunno if the 1/3rd price would've offset itself by them selling more units, probably not, but gives an idea of the costs while still making some profit.
Link Posted: 8/1/2018 12:11:37 PM EST
Yeah, I understand some of the points he was trying to make. I was just surprised by the drunken belligerent rambling... a lot of that shit came out of left field.

I'll cut him some slack because that post was about 3am his time. So I'll assume that he was intoxicated lol.
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