I was kinda in the mood to buy a pump gun for home defense and wondered if ....
1) anyone know anything good? bad? Ugly about it?
2) would I be better off going with the Moss/590 Military spec?
Thanks for all the informed opinions ahead of time
PS: Just in case you are wondering, it is this model I am looking at......
I don't think I would spend the extra on that particular model. I would prefer the standard police model or the marine magnum.
I checked on the price...that's alot of money just to have the word TACTICAL on it...get an express 18" and buy the tactical stock and forend
Minus the OD green finish, the stock, and the word "TACTICAL", here's the best gun for the price on the market:
In fact, this IS the Tactical without the stock, finish, and name.
If you're going to spend as much money as on a Mossberg 590 series, go to the extra effort and money and get the Cadallac....A Remington 870 Police gun.
With Remington, you get a forged and milled steel receiver, and the same general gun 95% of all American law enforcement use.
Buy a Police model and you get the EXACT same gun.
trust me when I say I am all for what you are all saying, but I am maybe a little confused........you say "for the money", but both the Express and Tactical are being found by me at Gunbroker and such for around $329 each. Maybe I am missing something? I feel like I will spend that much buying the pistol grip for it anyways.
Hell, talk me in or out, I just want to be in the majority when I do it. I am in NC and maybe it is my luck, but when I see the Police models for sale at shows and such....the sellers are jacking up the price $40, give or take a few bucks.
Form the message pinned at the top of this forum:
"Structurally the two receivers are identical. The only difference will be that the Police model will have a more durable finish. The magazine tubes will be slightly different. ... Other differences will be that the Police model includes sling swivel studs, a shorter fore-end, heavier shell latches, a heavier sear spring and a heavier magazine spring."
Whether the outrageous premiums being demanded by dealers for Police models are justified by these minor enhancements is certainly a matter of opinion.
We buy Express models whenever we can find them, the cheaper the better. We just bought one of those green ones that was on sale here locally for some photography. They are hella cool looking.
I may get in trouble for posting this again, but here's the actual differences between the Express "home defense" and the top-of-the-line Police models:
The Express is a "bottom of the line" budget gun, intended to sell at a price near that of the much cheaper to make cast aluminum and stamped Mossberg and Winchester.
Since the 870 still uses a forged and milled steel receiver and heavy duty fabricated parts, costs had to be cut somewhere, and what got cut was finish and the addition of some plastic and MIM parts.
The basic gun is the same as the much more expensive Police model.
Here's the actual differences:
The Express Model has:
A plastic trigger group.
The dimples in the mag tube and the new style plastic magazine retention system. (Except on the extended model)
A rougher finish inside and outside, with some burrs left in place along with machine marks.
A rougher blue job.
A less polished bore.
A two piece barrel. (not 100% sure about this, the rear of the barrel appears to be a separate piece with the barrel tube brazed in).
Synthetic stock, with a sporting-length fore end.
An 18", cylinder bore barrel with a bead sight.
Some Metal Injection Molded (MIM) parts, like the extractor. (The extractor MAY be milled now due to some breakage problems).
The Express, like all the sporting Remington's had the "J-lock" lockable safety, but this has been discontinued recently.
The 870 Police has:
An aluminum trigger group.
The old style magazine retention system.
A much smoother finish inside and out, no burrs. (The Police gets hand finishing attention).
A military-grade parkerized finish, 60% more durable than bluing.
A polished bore.
A one piece barrel.
Walnut or synthetic stock, with a short police-length fore end.
Remington's new "R3" recoil pad made by Limbsaver. (Cuts WAY down on felt recoil).
Choices in different stocks, including Speed-feed, and others.
18" to 20" improved cylinder barrel, with a wide choice in sights, including bead, rifle, ghost ring, and luminous.
Heavy-duty magazine spring.
Heavy-duty trigger-sear spring.
Sling swivel mounts.
No use of MIM parts, the extractor is milled.
The locking safety was never used on the Police.
A closely inspected, hand de-burred gun intended to be smooth and perfect right out of the box.
On this 18" Synthetic 870 with the +2 extension from the factory, does it still have the dimples? If so does this mean you could always get the mag extensions from Remington? If so what is the big deal with other express models having the dimles (is it just that nobody wants to buy from Remington)?
Just a little confused on this issue. I just bought this exact model with extension. Will probably do a tear down and good look through which might clear up my confusion.
Unless you just wanted the "Tactical model" the 18" Express model is an awesome gun, of course I'm a shotgun newbie so...
ETA: I just noted the pictured one at the top does alrady have the shorter fore-end which is a nice plus.
So what if I wanted the Police 870 express, but w/ the standard synthetic stock and foreend ? Possible? In black?
You can probably find one new for under $300.
Any Remington with an extended magazine DOES NOT have the "dimples".
The purpose of the dimples is to retain the plastic magazine spring retention plug in the STANDARD 4 shot magazine tube.
Remington designed the Express to be cheap enough to make to allow it to compete with the much cheaper Mossberg and Winchester guns.
One method of lowering the price was to change the magazine retention system to one made of plastic, and that would take less hand work to build.
For various reasons, Remington makes it hard to buy JUST a magazine extension from them.
If the gun has a standard 4 shot magazine, you CANNOT install an extension made by ANYONE, unless you remove the "dimples" from the guns magazine tube.
Once the dimples are properly removed, you can install an extension made by Remington or any one of the other makes like Choate, Wilson, Tac-Star or others.
BUT, this is more or less a permanent alteration. It's very difficult to go back to a standard short magazine again.
Possible, but difficult.
In other words, if you want an extension, buy the gun with a factory version already installed.
Then you can change to a standard 4 shot magazine easily by buying a couple of cheap parts.
As above, the Express and the Police are two different models.
Check the Remington commercial site. They offer the cheaper Express as a home defense gun with synthetic black stocks and with or without an extension.
If you want to spend more money, and get the Cadillac, the Police comes with black synthetic and MANY options.
Remington's Home Defense guns:
Remington Police guns:
What I meant is I wanted the standard 870, but with the aluminum trigger and trigger guard, the police "smoother finish", polished bore, etc. I just want the standard express stock and foreend. I hate the police stock and foreend.
Is that understandable?
Basically, I want a Remington 870 Police model, but I want it to look like the one with the extension:
Or is the Police Model not worth it over the standard 870?
You are probably stuck with buying the police model and configuring it yourself. That is why I was leaning to the one I posted a pic of.....already done for me
Cool, thanks. Good to know :D
Another question on this gun....Does it have a Choat trigger guard?
All that is is an Express Magnum, with an OD finish, Added Swivels, Choate Stock, Police Magnum Forend, and the word 'Tactical' on the receiver.
For the money, you're better off just getting a Police Magnum, and change the stock out to Choate. Now you have an even better gun than the one you've got pictured above. (Just not in OD)
There's no such thing as a "Choate trigger guard".
Remington went to a polymer trigger plate as a cost savings on the "budget" Express.
Remington's guard is made of a better grade of polymer than other makers, and in the real world, the plastic trigger plate seems to be standing up quite as well as the aluminum guards.
In fact, the plastic guards have some real advantages.
While a good bump will bend or break the aluminum guard, the plastic bends, flexes and returns to usable shape.
There is no finish to wear off and get ratty looking.
The group can't corrode and since it's self-lubricating, requires only enough lube to prevent the internal parts from rusting.
I personally know of only one case of a plastic Remington trigger plate failing and that was a case of a blow heavy enough that the receiver was also damaged.
On another forum, we had a request for any verified cases of plastic shotgun parts failing.
We had a few cases of Mossberg safeties breaking, the broken trigger plate I mentioned above, and that's IT.
On this forum, one poster had a case of a Remington plastic magazine follower expanding and sticking in the magazine.
So, the Remington Express polymer trigger plate SEEMS to be a wash over the aluminum.
Thanks for the response to my question. Afte having shot this weekend and tearing down and cleaning my new 18" Express, I saw that there were no dimples. After your explanation I understand why they would put the dimples on the models without the extension.
Thanks for helping out the newb...h.gif
Hell, I love yours too!
I've got one also, haven't even shot it yet.
What kind of sling is that?
Good looking gun, I was wanting to get the surefire forearm also.
Specter SOP sling it comes with all the hardware U need for it to work (GG&G sling plate). I cut down the stock after this pic witha hacksaw, it was way to long or my short ass. U can not even tell I cut it.
The older Express models have the aluminum trigger guard/housing. Mine from about 96 or 97 is made that way.
Removing the dimples for a extension is a 5 minute dremel job.
I am not 100% sure, but I think you can use an old style Wingmaster magazine "plug" to go back to standard capacity.
Not sure about the extractor, but I think that is way before MIM.
An older Express may be the way to build up.
Either 4421 or 4407 depending on the type of sights you want.