RAS v. SIR v. Zipties -- pic to discuss

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - RAS v. SIR v. Zipties -- pic to discuss

Posted: 4/17/2002 9:09:53 AM EDT

Here is the cover from a recent Time magazine. It may be the wrong size, but right now I'm not on a computer with a photo editting program. If any one wants to enlarge it and repost, please feel free. Hopefully no one else has posted this already with me missing the thread.

Looks like this SpecOps soldier has a laser designator attached to the top of standard handguards with two zipties. The top of the handguards are flat so I guess if the zipties were tight enough they would probably hold the unit in place to some degree. What do you think? Field expedient or something else?

Intersting....

EDITED to add that maybe this is a good reason for soldiers to at least have an RAS on their rifle, even if they don't think they'll use it.

Posted: 4/17/2002 9:47:24 AM EDT

[#1]

Here is a link to a much larger version of this picture.

www.dtic.mil/armylink/photos/Mar2002/soldier2.jpg

Cant tell how effective that attachment really is but he would surely benefit from a RAS.

Posted: 4/17/2002 9:59:50 AM EDT

[#2]

Good point, The PEQ lazer works well, but has a design problem regarding steadying the housing as it only has a single point front attachment(pivots), hence the trash bag ties. The SIR system you mentioned addressed that problem and provides the capability to use a metal(z)clip via the threaded holes running thru the top rail channel, that holds the rear of the laser as well the built in front laser attachment.Our field expedient guys seem to know more about steady mounting needs than the laser maker.
Good Shootin, Jack

Posted: 4/17/2002 5:08:41 PM EDT

[#3]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the guy on the right has a CRKT M16 knife (similar to the ones we had made) clipped on his front.

-Troy

Posted: 4/17/2002 5:39:23 PM EDT

[#4]

Good point, The PEQ lazer works well, but has a design problem regarding steadying the housing as it only has a single point front attachment(pivots), hence the trash bag ties.

...Actually the mounting system is similar to the PAQ-4 barrel mount. The mount is secured on the barrel. The outer mount which connects to the PEQ-2 is secured to the mount on the barrel through two holes in the handguards. The PEQ-2 laser has a channel that accepts the second part of the mount to prevent pivoting and is secured with one screw (yes you have to make sure its tight). The zip tie you see does not prevent pivoting. The soldier simply has his laser tied off with 550 cord, and the second part of the mount secured with a zip tie to prevent loss.

The other mount is simply a rail grabber for the laser. The laser connects to the rail grabber in the same fashion (has a channel to accept the laser which is secured with a screw)...which in turn is mounted on the RAS.

Posted: 4/17/2002 7:39:54 PM EDT

[#5]

i dont think thats 550 cord on the rear. looks like the ubiqutous boot-band to me. i can imagine exactly what probably happened. our intrepid young warrior is drawing his gear but unfortunately for him he's near the back of the line. he gets to the window, his friendly neighborhood 2111 trades him a weapon for his hand reciept "hey gunny, can i get a PEQ with that" to which is replied "yeah but we're out of mounts, figure something out"

we're still feeling the effects of 8 years of clinton/gore

Posted: 4/17/2002 7:41:14 PM EDT

[#6]

In reply to Bear_Hunter:

I don't think that he has an RAS mounted on his rifle. But you may have brought up a good point. The soldier may have a bolt on accesory rail on the top of the issue handguard. Doesn't seem that the unit needs to be held in alignment the way that optics need to.

Any other thoughts on this?

EDITED to add: Good eye on the knife, Troy! Reminds me that I need to pick up a new blade....

Posted: 4/17/2002 8:43:55 PM EDT

[#7]

FWIW, I think it is para cord on the back. If you look at how it is looped and tied, it looks like 550 line. Additionally, the end has the same melted/burned appearance of 550 cord....

Posted: 4/18/2002 6:31:59 AM EDT

[#8]

I was describing the two types of mounts. He has a barrel mount on his weapon that goes through the handguards.

Yes thats 550...and the zip tie is just secured to the outer portion of the mount to prevent loss.

Posted: 4/18/2002 7:11:01 AM EDT

[#9]

I believe that is a CRKT M16-**Z, the *'s because I dont know the exact blade configuration, and the Z because it looks like Zytel. I believe thats the bigger model, because the pivot pin is much smaller than the three holes (that form a triangle) surrounding it. On my -12Z, the holes are about 2mm from the outer diameter of the pivot pin, and the pin is about 7.5mm in diameter, the spacing on his knife is definitely bigger.

Kharn

Posted: 4/18/2002 9:19:21 AM EDT

[#10]

Good Eye Troy...

It's definately an M16-14 of some flavor, whether it's a Zytel, or one of the 1* models, can't be certain, but I will say it's not a 1* Military (OD Green).

I have a couple of the smaller sized models, one is OD, one is Black, and I simply love them.

Posted: 4/18/2002 12:09:50 PM EDT

[#11]

Looks like this SpecOps soldier has a laser designator attached to the top of standard handguards with two zipties.

I don't know if he's SpecOps. Look at the shoulder patch (Screaming Eagle) of the soldier next to him.

Posted: 4/18/2002 1:40:00 PM EDT

[#12]

1st Battalion, 187th Infantry Regiment, 101st Abn Division.

Posted: 4/18/2002 1:55:24 PM EDT

[#13]

I think the look on the OTHER soldier's face says it all. There needs to be a caption contest for that one. Here they are on the front lines, and they don't even get the good equipment.

THANK YOU Mr. Clinton. And THANK YOU Mr. Bush, for continuing the Clinton legacy of spending all the money on billion dollar technologies that will be useful when we get into that big war with Zeta Reticuli. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

In the long run, our soldiers having the right guns in their hands will be alot more important than having the Osprey, SDI or the F-22 :P

Posted: 4/18/2002 4:17:43 PM EDT

[#14]

So, Sting and Matt Damon are going to do a new buddy pic?

Posted: 4/19/2002 4:36:16 AM EDT

[#15]

I am not guessing what is around the PEQ laser,they are (ZIP TIES). I speak from first hand experience, and the fuckin laser housing wiggles and jumps and will not stay zero'd, no matter how tight you tighten the one pivotal screw. The design of the two short in length hoz. 45 deg. angles with one pivotal screw has been a problem from day one and well documented. In fact that is why some units still use the old pac-c's.
The IR illuminator is great and is not obviously bothered by the zero loss.
Jack

Posted: 4/19/2002 5:42:51 AM EDT

[#16]

Look at the picture again. The soldier does not have the zip tie secured AROUND the PEQ-2...he has it secured over the outer mount which is not doing anything to prevent the wobble you speak of. He is simply securing his equipment with 550 cord (for the PEQ-2), and zip tie (for the outer barrel mount).

...and I am still doing this for a living

EDITED TO ADD THE FOLLOWING:

Can the screw on the PAQ-4C and PEQ-2 work its way out and wobble eventually when mounted...yes. But the question in this topic was "How does this soldier have his PEQ-2 mounted, and what is the zip tie doing". The zip tie isn't doing jack except securing the outer barrel mount in the picture.

Posted: 4/19/2002 7:03:30 AM EDT

[#17]

Tukka is correct those soldiers are Rakkasans.

Here is another observation...they are probably not 11Bs. All three Infantry BDE's are outfitted with the MWS (RAS). They are probably FO's, EGRs, or some other attachment.

Posted: 4/19/2002 5:46:20 PM EDT

[#18]

Let me put it this way, there are a lot of dif. ways being used to keep the laser PEQ from moving on the lousey mount that is attached to the plastic 45 deg. angles in the lasers housing, held by a pivot that wiggles even when tight. The vibration then makes the screw work loose. Wire , zip tie's, thousand mile an hr. tape, etc, you name it is being used to make the laser stop going out of bore sight. I work for a living on this stuff too, so what, it's the guys that we send out there that need some better things than this kind of lab. approved junk.
Good Shootin, Jack

Posted: 4/19/2002 8:50:05 PM EDT

[#19]

NOT THAT IT MATTERS BECAUSE THEY BOTH TAKE THE SAME TYPE MOUNT, BUT THE I.R. UNIT IN THE PHOTO IS NOT A PEQ-2. IT IS A PAQ-4. NO ILLUMINATOR. JUST A DOT. HOPE THEY HAVE GOOD NIGHT VISION...

THE I.R. AIMING MODULES ARE A MAJOR PAIN IN THE ASS TO SIGHT IN, NORMALLY. IT HAS TO BE DONE AT NIGHT, OF COURSE, UTILIZING NIGHT VISION, ON SPECIALLY PREPPED TARGETS. IT IS A TEDIOUS ENDEVOUR, ESPECIALLY AFTER A LONG TRAINING DAY.

BUT!!!...IF YOU HAVE A NIGHT VISION COMPATIBLE AIMPOINT ON YOUR WEAPON, AND IT IS SIGHTED IN AT A GIVEN RANGE, YOU CAN MOUNT YOUR NVD BEHIND THE AIMPOINT AT NIGHT...

AND...

SLEW THE I.R. DOT COINCIDENT WITH THE AIMPOINT DOT ON A SURFACE AT THE SAME RANGE AT WHICH THE AIMPOINT IS SIGHTED IN.

NOW...

YOUR I.R. LASER AIMING MODULE IS SIGHTED IN AT THAT SAME RANGE, WITHOUT FIRING A ROUND!

I AGREE, THE ISSUE PAQ-4 AND PEQ-2 MOUNT INTERFACE LEAVES SOMETHING TO BE DESIRED. I HAVE HAD BETTER LUCK WITH THE AFTERMARKET VERSIONS BY KNIGHT'S ARMAMENT THAN THE ISSUE INSIGHTS TECHNOLOGY RAILGRABBER FOR THE RIS/RAS. BUT THE PEQ-2 MOUNT BUILT INTO THE ARMS S.I.R. LOOKS VERY COOL AND IS CERTAINLY INGENIOUS IN ITS DESIGN.

WES GRANT
WWW.MSTN.BIZ

Posted: 4/20/2002 6:37:08 AM EDT

[#20]

MSTN,

You are absolutely right...that is a PAQ-4C...good eyes.

Posted: 4/20/2002 7:31:55 AM EDT

[#21]

zip ties rule. oh yeah

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - RAS v. SIR v. Zipties -- pic to discuss

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