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Posted: 8/29/2004 6:15:11 AM EDT
Anyone own one of their 93 clones? I bought one before they started production and I'm noticing a it has a strange habit. It wasn't clear at 50 yards but after trying to sight in an ACOG at 100 I noticed that the bullets are hitting the target sideways. I've tried various brands of mil-surp and all of them exhibit the same behaviour. I have checked the bore and the crown for damage, but can't see anything that stands out as being obviously wrong. I did notice that the fake FH is about twice the inside diameter of the FH on my SW36 clone. I'm starting to think that the size of the flash hider is causing a vortex just past the muzzle and destabilizing the bullet enough to cause it to tumble. I haven't called Vector yet I figure I'll try them on Monday and see what they have to say. Just wanting to get some input from other Vector owners.
Link Posted: 8/29/2004 5:39:10 PM EDT
If the bullet is striking the target sideways, I have much doubt that you could even hit the target at 100 yards.. How are the groups???
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 8:35:52 AM EDT
Groupings at 100 yards are averaging about 1-1.5 feet. At 50 yards it wasn't too bad so I didn't think much was wrong. I'd bet at 200yards the roudns would be striking the dirt before hitting anything else.
Link Posted: 8/30/2004 11:58:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2004 12:11:11 PM EDT by davidp14]
Im very interested in hearing if anybody else has had this problem. Ive been seriously thinking about getting one of these in the near future.....


I'd be interested to hear of any other problems too.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 11:23:28 AM EDT
Got an email back from Jayson @IGF regarding this. He says he has seen this with some 33 barrels and the solution was to try some different ammo. I will attempt to get some Winchester white box or other commercial ammo and try it out this weekend to see if this will remedy the problem. I have yet to contact Vector as I feel that they will probably want me to ship it back to them for a looksee. I'd rather do that as a last resort.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 1:26:33 PM EDT
What grain of bullet are you shooting? What is the twist of the Hk33 barrel, 1in7? If you are using 55 grain ammo, they may not be stabilizing with that twist rate. A 1in7 needs 64 grain and heavier.
Link Posted: 9/2/2004 3:25:53 PM EDT
I wasn't aware that these barrels had a 1 in 7 rate of twist , but that would explain some of what I'm seeing. The heaviest bullet I've tried are 62grain SS109s [mil-surp] but I didnt try them at 100 yards. I guess the next trip to the range I'll be taking a plethora of ammo and try them all at 100 yards.
I will have to say this is the only problem I've had with this gun. The fit and finish are very good on par with IGFs work. Hopefully this will turn out to be an ammo issue or perhaps the fake FH in which case the ban ends in about 2 weeks and I'll get that swapped out for the real thing.
Link Posted: 9/10/2004 10:07:40 PM EDT
Who is IGF? I've been eyeballing one of these V93's for a while now. I would prefer one with the Navy lower if at all possible.
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 3:42:18 AM EDT
Investment Grade Firearms....
Link Posted: 9/11/2004 8:36:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dog1:
Investment Grade Firearms....

Yup, have a 93 and a 93 from Jayson and love them.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 8:42:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Recline:
What grain of bullet are you shooting? What is the twist of the Hk33 barrel, 1in7? If you are using 55 grain ammo, they may not be stabilizing with that twist rate. A 1in7 needs 64 grain and heavier.

Actually, that's backwards...

55 grain will stabilize in most barrel twists; it's the heavy bullets that require faster twists like 1/9, etc. 55 grain is good from 1/12" (which my HK93, when I had it, was rifled with) to 1/7. In fact, 1/7 almost over-stabilizes...lighter bullets might literally fly apart from that fast a twist. 1/9 will stabilize both 62 grain and 55 grain, but 1/12 won't stabilize 62 grain.

55 grain (standard M193 ball, and most civvie loadings) should be just fine for you. I shoot that exclusivly, out of everything, including my 1/7" M4gery. All my 100 yard groups are at least minute-of-pie-plate offhand.

If it's hitting the target (if it hits it) keyholing...it could be that it's bouncing off the faux flash supressor, or perhaps the crown, or other part of the barrel, is damaged.

I'd send it back to Vector with a test target, shot while the rifle was on a rest, and demand they make it right. For any "Factory" rifle to do this out of the box is pretty unacceptable...

Just my $0.02.
Link Posted: 9/12/2004 4:45:13 PM EDT
Although i dont have a 93 yet i shoot a lot of ar15's you should not have any bullet tumble at 200 yards with decent ammo. Bigger groups yes but tumbling no. If you are shooting reloads the excess crimp might cause this. also check to see if during the feed cycle that the bullets are not recieving a bump to set them crooked in the chamber. I doubt the muzzle break is causing it unless it is way off center. just my .02 cents.
Link Posted: 9/13/2004 2:42:28 PM EDT
After taking a more detailed look at the crown on my 93 it looks as if I may have an uneven crown.
I've viewed it backwards and forwards and I can't be certain but that may the problem. I tried SS109s again and still had the same issue. I sent Vector an email [I hate being on hold long distance] to see if there's any warranty on this since it's over a year old [I got his one before they went into production].
Thanks to all for your input. I'll update with more info when I get it.
Link Posted: 9/19/2004 1:47:07 PM EDT
I took the V93 to the range this morning with some Federal XM193 [lake city surplus] and placed a large piece of cardboard at 50 yards. The first 3 shots hit low and left [6 inches low, 4 inches lft] and no sign of keyholing. Moved the board to the 100 yard backer and fired another 3 rounds this time rotating the turret to the 200 yard mark. Elevation was dead on, but about 9" to the left and again no keyholing. Grouping at 100 yards had 2 shots touching the last round blew the average out to 1.5 MOA.
I don't know what the deal is with the previous ammo [Wolf 55grain] other than the thick soot it left on everything. Perhaps it is underpowered or the bullet weight isn't what it claims. I might pull one just to find out.
Turns out this barrel has a 1:12 twist and as such it will not stablize anything heavier than a 55 grain bullet.
So as it stands all is well. Now to get a real flash hider and perhaps an A3 stock (and a few more mags).
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