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Posted: 2/11/2017 8:46:21 PM EDT
I have a Lee 125gr in 9mm. Double powder coated them and sized them down to .358"

I've never loaded 38 spl nor 357 mag.

Can I load these powder coated lead bullets in my Rossi 92 lever action or is there a slight risk of primer ignition in the tube and a chain reaction?

Link Posted: 2/11/2017 8:51:02 PM EDT
[#1]
I would.
Link Posted: 2/11/2017 8:51:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Those will work without issues.
Link Posted: 2/11/2017 8:59:11 PM EDT
[#3]
I always wondered about that but more for 30-30 Win. It seems all of the factory ammo is flat nose except the newer rubber tip stuff.

What about the other traditional tube fed calibers like 35 Rem. has anyone seen round nose factory ammo ?

Motor
Link Posted: 2/11/2017 10:46:58 PM EDT
[#4]
I'm guessing that for some silly reason you don't want to just buy the correct bullet mold and cast your own .357  semi wadcutter (flat nose bullets) to load.  WTF  why take the chance that the round nose will impact the primer of the cartridge in front upon recoil.  Granted we are talking 38 so not much recoil but I got to say just buy the correct bullet mold if you are going to do this a lot and if not buy some cast semi wadcutters and load those. I don't think it makes sense to run the round nose ball type bullet in a lever gun. If it were a situation where you HAD to make something work that would be different but its not.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/251707/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-38-special-357-magnum  you may also want the factory crimp dye.
Link Posted: 2/11/2017 11:02:30 PM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm guessing that for some silly reason you don't want to just buy the correct bullet mold and cast your own .357  semi wadcutter (flat nose bullets) to load.  WTF  why take the chance that the round nose will impact the primer of the cartridge in front upon recoil.  Granted we are talking 38 so not much recoil but I got to say just buy the correct bullet mold if you are going to do this a lot and if not buy some cast semi wadcutters and load those. I don't think it makes sense to run the round nose ball type bullet in a lever gun. If it were a situation where you HAD to make something work that would be different but its not.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/251707/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-38-special-357-magnum  you may also want the factory crimp dye.
View Quote



Yeah Lee makes a .358 125gr mold with a flat point. If I was OP though I'd probably shoot those. Here do this for an experiment OP. Take a empty primed case and put it in a vice. Take a projectile and center it on the primer, then hit the projectile with a hammer. I did this once with a 30 carbine bullet with a primed 30-30 case and I couldn't get the primer to detonate.
Link Posted: 2/11/2017 11:19:44 PM EDT
[#6]
I loaded and shot better than 1500 rounds of both 357 magnum and 38 special ammo with that same bullet in a Marlin lever rifle without A SINGLE MISFIRE, DETONATION, or anything else. Compare the tip of your firing pin and the tip of the bullet to the diameter of the primer. That bullet is perfectly safe in your rifle. The 30-30 was most likely loaded with ROUNDNOSE BULLETS for better than 50 years before the first flat points came along. Much more powerful cartridge that works fine with RNs.
Lastly, the Hornady Leverevolution "rubber pointed" bullets are available in 357 loaded ammo. Try some
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 12:13:22 AM EDT
[#7]
I saw a test on you tube where the guy built a simulated tube mag, filled it with pointed bullets and tried to set them off.

As I expected it was boring and I can't imagine a RN being able to set a primer off even if hammered on directly.  Damn, another test I'll have to put on the list.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 12:23:06 AM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:



Yeah Lee makes a .358 125gr mold with a flat point. If I was OP though I'd probably shoot those. Here do this for an experiment OP. Take a empty primed case and put it in a vice. Take a projectile and center it on the primer, then hit the projectile with a hammer. I did this once with a 30 carbine bullet with a primed 30-30 case and I couldn't get the primer to detonate.
View Quote


I was going to buy a Lee flat nose 158gr mold but that's a month or two away.

I have some Hornady 158gr xtp's I loaded but since I need to function test my gun and these powder coated bullets are too thick for my 9mm I'd figure I'd give them a chance since I had them laying around.

I can single load them to shoot them for now but was just curious.

I bought a new rifle in a new caliber so I couldnt buy everything at once.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 12:26:12 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm guessing that for some silly reason you don't want to just buy the correct bullet mold and cast your own .357  semi wadcutter (flat nose bullets) to load.  WTF  why take the chance that the round nose will impact the primer of the cartridge in front upon recoil.  Granted we are talking 38 so not much recoil but I got to say just buy the correct bullet mold if you are going to do this a lot and if not buy some cast semi wadcutters and load those. I don't think it makes sense to run the round nose ball type bullet in a lever gun. If it were a situation where you HAD to make something work that would be different but its not.
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/251707/lee-carbide-factory-crimp-die-38-special-357-magnum  you may also want the factory crimp dye.
View Quote



I have the Lee factory crimp die. I bought the .38 spl/ .357 mag 4 die deluxe set.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 7:04:42 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I was going to buy a Lee flat nose 158gr mold but that's a month or two away.

I have some Hornady 158gr xtp's I loaded but since I need to function test my gun and these powder coated bullets are too thick for my 9mm I'd figure I'd give them a chance since I had them laying around.

I can single load them to shoot them for now but was just curious.

I bought a new rifle in a new caliber so I couldnt buy everything at once.
View Quote


Why are those too thick for your 9mm's????
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 9:02:01 AM EDT
[#11]
I can't speak to the issues around your tube magazine, but I can speak to the Lee 358-125 RF and 358-158 RF molds. Buy them. They are great bullets. I shot them traditionally lubed and powder coated by the thousands in a pair of revolvers. 

I've also shot the 358-125 RF by the thousands in a pair of HK pistols. It's a happy little bullet.

Link Posted: 2/12/2017 10:51:12 AM EDT
[#12]
If the recoils really mild, you might get away with it. I personally wouldn't try it, the warnings from the gun manufacturers coupled with common sense are enough for me.

But go ahead and take a walk on the wild side, you'll probably be okay.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 12:45:53 PM EDT
[#13]
I wouldn't worry at all about a tube det myself...


What would concern me a little is the fact that bullet does not have a crimp grove, I'd worry more about set back than tube det. I think any tube feed gun or revolver needs a bullet with a crimp grove/canlure and a firm roll crimp.

Considering these are 38spl rds, a factory taper crimp should be just fine.

I'd use either the lee 125 or 158gr RF mold for the rossi 357. I use a lee 200gr RF in my rossi 44M, feeds and shoots great



Edit: I just noticed, you say the PC 125RN are to thick for your 9mm sized at 358? Odd, I use the same bullet, lubed not PC'd but sized to 358... no issues at all in any of my 9's. CZ, Glock(KKM barrels) S&W's or AR 9mm PCC's.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 1:18:18 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:


Why are those too thick for your 9mm's????
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


I was going to buy a Lee flat nose 158gr mold but that's a month or two away.

I have some Hornady 158gr xtp's I loaded but since I need to function test my gun and these powder coated bullets are too thick for my 9mm I'd figure I'd give them a chance since I had them laying around.

I can single load them to shoot them for now but was just curious.

I bought a new rifle in a new caliber so I couldnt buy everything at once.


Why are those too thick for your 9mm's????


I took a .356" Lee sizer and polished it to open it to .357".

Went a little too far and polished it to .3585"

A little too big for my 9mm so I'll use it for my .357 mag lever action.

Ordered a new Lee .356 sizer to use for my 9mm.

So I had a stack of .358" cast bullets that wouldn't chamber in my CZ 75 sp-01. Thought it would be a good opportunity to use them in the lever action hence the creation of this thread to see if they were safe to load in a tube magazine.

I'll eventually get a 158gr cast mold but that's a month or two away.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 1:19:21 PM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
If the recoils really mild, you might get away with it. I personally wouldn't try it, the warnings from the gun manufacturers coupled with common sense are enough for me.

But go ahead and take a walk on the wild side, you'll probably be okay.
View Quote




I'll single load these for now.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 1:22:25 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
I wouldn't worry at all about a tube det myself...


What would concern me a little is the fact that bullet does not have a crimp grove, I'd worry more about set back than tube det. I think any tube feed gun or revolver needs a bullet with a crimp grove/canlure and a firm roll crimp.

Considering these are 38spl rds, a factory taper crimp should be just fine.

I'd use either the lee 125 or 158gr RF mold for the rossi 357. I use a lee 200gr RF in my rossi 44M, feeds and shoots great



Edit: I just noticed, you say the PC 125RN are to thick for your 9mm sized at 358? Odd, I use the same bullet, lubed not PC'd but sized to 358... no issues at all in any of my 9's. CZ, Glock(KKM barrels) S&W's or AR 9mm PCC's.
View Quote


I made a dummy round for my CZ and it was just a bit too thick to fully and easily chamber.

I might have gone just a bit over when I opened my .356 sizer. .3585.  .0005" too thick.

Bought another sizer for my 9mm and I'll use this for my .357 caliber.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 2:16:45 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:


I made a dummy round for my CZ and it was just a bit too thick to fully and easily chamber.

I might have gone just a bit over when I opened my .356 sizer. .3585.  .0005" too thick.

Bought another sizer for my 9mm and I'll use this for my .357 caliber.
View Quote
Are you sure the diameter is the problem? With the 125-2R bullet, I seat to 1.055. Any longer, I run the ogive into the lead on the shorter chambered 9's like my CZ75 and S&W shield, they won't pass the plunk test if I seat longer...
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 2:26:53 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
Are you sure the diameter is the problem? With the 125-2R bullet, I seat to 1.055. Any longer, I run the ogive into the lead on the shorter chambered 9's like my CZ75 and S&W shield, they won't pass the plunk test if I seat longer...
View Quote


That's a very good point. I'll load up a dummy in 1.055 and see if they will feed.

Now that you mention it I remember seating the .3585 bullets deeper to get them to plunk test but didn't load them as I was afraid the pressure would be too high if I fired them.

So if I set them just a bit further in to your suggested COL of 1.055" just revert back to 10% below max and shoot them in a ladder to see the max pressure?
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 2:57:07 PM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
I wouldn't worry at all about a tube det myself...


What would concern me a little is the fact that bullet does not have a crimp grove, I'd worry more about set back than tube det. I think any tube feed gun or revolver needs a bullet with a crimp grove/canlure and a firm roll crimp.

Considering these are 38spl rds, a factory taper crimp should be just fine.

I'd use either the lee 125 or 158gr RF mold for the rossi 357. I use a lee 200gr RF in my rossi 44M, feeds and shoots great



Edit: I just noticed, you say the PC 125RN are to thick for your 9mm sized at 358? Odd, I use the same bullet, lubed not PC'd but sized to 358... no issues at all in any of my 9's. CZ, Glock(KKM barrels) S&W's or AR 9mm PCC's.
View Quote



This is the bullet I'm using.




There is a lube groove there but I thought the bullet would be seated too shallow if I crimped it in the lube grove.

Yeah, I need to buy  that 158gr mold sooner rather than later. I also know flat point bullets cause more tissue damage than RN bullets. Great SHTF bullet.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 3:22:27 PM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:



This is the bullet I'm using.

https://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/994/994155.jpg


There is a lube groove there but I thought the bullet would be seated too shallow if I crimped it in the lube grove.

Yeah, I need to buy  that 158gr mold sooner rather than later. I also know flat point bullets cause more tissue damage than RN bullets. Great SHTF bullet.
View Quote
I use the same bullet, I would not seat or crimp to the lube grove...

Get either the 125 or 158 RF mold if you want to stick with Lee.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 3:33:55 PM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:


That's a very good point. I'll load up a dummy in 1.055 and see if they will feed.

Now that you mention it I remember seating the .3585 bullets deeper to get them to plunk test but didn't load them as I was afraid the pressure would be too high if I fired them.

So if I set them just a bit further in to your suggested COL of 1.055" just revert back to 10% below max and shoot them in a ladder to see the max pressure?
View Quote
It's typical, when using lead cast bullets, to seat to a shorter OAL than jacketed bullets of similar weight.

I started out at around 1.100 with the 125 2R bullet, then seated deeper until I got a good plunk test at 1.060 IIRC. I settled for 1.055 as my final OAL so I had a little wiggle room.

The 125 2R has a short, fat nose. Even though they need to be seated to a shorter OAL to get the ogive off the lead, you really don't have more bullet in the case. It's reducing case volume by seating the bullet deeper that increases pressure... make sense?

I load these for plinking loads, I'm no where close to max pressure. If your using a known good load with this bullet than back off 10% and work back up with the new OAL.
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 10:21:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Link Posted: 2/12/2017 11:21:22 PM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
Great shooting bullet from Lee.

In my alloy, they come out 160 gr.

I've taken them all the way to the equal of full jacketed loads with H-110. No issues.
View Quote



That's the bullet/mold I'm looking at.
Link Posted: 2/13/2017 12:47:24 AM EDT
[#24]
I have shot bullets that were close to .360" in my 9mms. I normally size my 9mms .358" as do many others. But I also know CZs can be picky.

The primer thing is just strange. You would think it would take a pin type strike to ignite it but look how many slam fires there are attributed to "high primers" and the fired casing has no pin strike mark.

Theoretically a round nose bullet can touch the primer it's up against in a tube magazine. What if that particular primer is sensitive?

Motor
Link Posted: 2/13/2017 1:31:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 2/13/2017 2:07:48 AM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
I have shot bullets that were close to .360" in my 9mms. I normally size my 9mms .358" as do many others. But I also know CZs can be picky.

The primer thing is just strange. You would think it would take a pin type strike to ignite it but look how many slam fires there are attributed to "high primers" and the fired casing has no pin strike mark.

Theoretically a round nose bullet can touch the primer it's up against in a tube magazine. What if that particular primer is sensitive?

Motor
View Quote


The primers are cci and I know they are the hardest of primers.

Still, I'll single load them until I get a flat point mold next month.
Link Posted: 2/14/2017 4:17:36 AM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:


The primers are cci and I know they are the hardest of primers.

Still, I'll single load them until I get a flat point mold next month.
View Quote


I use the same Lee 160gr 2R TL for all my 30 cals. So I made a "trim die" using a drill bushing and and old 44 mag die. With this "trim die" I file a flat on the bullet that is larger than the primer.

Even after trimming my bullets with gas checks still weigh between 167 and 168 grains.

You might consider doing the same to your round nose bullets. Do it before powder coating and they will look great. The hard part is coming up with a way to make them consistent hence the trim die.

Motor
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